The Final Frontier

We’re a day early, but certainly not a dollar short as we tackle another busy news week. First up, Washington Examiner magazine editor (and the co-host of That Sethany Show) Seth Mandel on the shootings in Pittsburgh and the Mandel’s new life in D.C. Then, our good friend (and Ricochet’s Law Talk with Epstein & Yoo podcast co-host) John Yoo stops by to school on the the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship, caravans, and geek out a bit on Star Trek. Also, Halloween in different parts of the country, and the President’s views on Jews.

Music from this week’s podcast: Across The Border by Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris

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There are 39 comments.

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  1. Barry Jones Thatcher

    John is right and wrong on the numbers of births to illegals. First point, it is not just illegals but those that are here on tourist and other Visas that have kids that then become citizens and give them(the parents) a hook into residency. Second the estimate of kids born to illegals is closer to 300,000 and that is more new born kids than most of the States have born to citizens…more than 90% of the States. That is a big number added to the mix.

    Also, if the Military can’t protect the borders of the Nation, what are they there for? If the Military plays no role in protecting the Nations borders, maybe an invading power (Russians, Chinese, NORKs, whoever) should just have put on Hawaiian and Bermuda shorts and then parachute out to conquer…then we would would never hear “Wolverines!” echoing from the Rockies…

    • #1
    • November 1, 2018, at 2:30 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  2. Petty Boozswha Member
    1. There is a rule of legal construction against considering language superfluous – the words are there to mean something.
    2. Over 300 babies were born on Ellis Island, technically part of New Jersey, but those babies were not considered citizens because their parents had not yet become subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
    3. John should know better than continue to use ad hominums pointing out the racial animus frequently attached to this issue, all to distract from the good faith arguments of his opponents.
    4. If a bunch of folks approaching the border say we don’t care about your stinkin’ laws, we’re coming in for economic reconquista, how is that different from anchor babies being the children of invaders or foreign soldiers?
    • #2
    • November 1, 2018, at 2:59 PM PDT
    • 11 likes
  3. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    I’m not sure how the President plans to implement a new citizenship policy by executive order, but it strikes me that he could do so. Here is a hypothetical.

    I would think that the executive branch regularly makes citizenship determinations. An example would be a person applying for a passport. The President could issue and executive order directing executive personnel to not issue passports, or other documents, or take other actions predicated on a person’s citizenship, where the person at issue was born in the US to a mother illegal alien mother.

    I would think that the affected person could then bring a lawsuit to compel the issuance of the passport (or other action), and the federal court could then decide whether the person is a citizen. Such a decision could then be appealed, ultimately to SCOTUS.

    This seems a perfectly reasonable path for the President to take.

    • #3
    • November 1, 2018, at 3:00 PM PDT
    • Like
  4. Petty Boozswha Member

    Contrary to John Yoo’s suggestion, this issue was not considered “settled” for over a hundred years until an activist Justice on the Warren Court wrote some dicta in a footnote on an unrelated issue.

    • #4
    • November 1, 2018, at 3:10 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  5. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    John Yoo and Seth Mandel. Not exactly the Red Meat addition before the election.

    Now I’m depressed.

    More like the Anti-Trump Purple Meat edition.

    Perhaps Michelle Malkin and David Horowitz or Joel Pollak would have been a better choice.

    • #5
    • November 1, 2018, at 4:47 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  6. Max Ledoux Admin

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):

    I would think that the affected person could then bring a lawsuit to compel the issuance of the passport (or other action), and the federal court could then decide whether the person is a citizen. Such a decision could then be appealed, ultimately to SCOTUS.

    I’m sure this is how it would happen. Courts should not be deciding who is a citizen, though. Congress makes the laws and the president enforces the laws (and the Constitution). If the Constitution does not say that babies of illegal aliens are citizens then of course it’s perfectly legal and constitutional for the president to enforce the law by barring children of illegal aliens from receiving citizenship.

    • #6
    • November 1, 2018, at 4:49 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  7. Taras Coolidge

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    1. There is a rule of legal construction against considering language superfluous – the words are there to mean something.
    2. Over 300 babies were born on Ellis Island, technically part of New Jersey, but those babies were not considered citizens because their parents had not yet become subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
    3. John should know better than continue to use ad hominums pointing out the racial animus frequently attached to this issue, all to distract from the good faith arguments of his opponents.
    4. If a bunch of folks approaching the border say we don’t care about your stinkin’ laws, we’re coming in for economic reconquista, how is that different from anchor babies being the children of invaders or foreign soldiers?

    Petty, if #2 is true, then it’s the clincher.

    Of course, that’s according to reason, precedent, and the law, which have little to do with Supreme Court rulings these days.

     As I wrote elsewhere, the four Democratic Justices will vote the interests of the Democratic Party, as they always do; while one or two Republican Justices will join them, voting for the status quo. (In the vain hope that future Democratic majorities will likewise not override Republican precedents at the first opportunity.)

    • #7
    • November 1, 2018, at 5:24 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  8. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Arizona Patriot (View Comment):

    I would think that the affected person could then bring a lawsuit to compel the issuance of the passport (or other action), and the federal court could then decide whether the person is a citizen. Such a decision could then be appealed, ultimately to SCOTUS.

    I’m sure this is how it would happen. Courts should not be deciding who is a citizen, though. Congress makes the laws and the president enforces the laws (and the Constitution). If the Constitution does not say that babies of illegal aliens are citizens then of course it’s perfectly legal and constitutional for the president to enforce the law by barring children of illegal aliens from receiving citizenship.

    Almost all the amendments proposed since the 1865 13th Amendment include phrasing at the bottom similar to that in the 14th Amendment which reads, “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”

    The 13th Amendment was the first successful amendment proposed since 1803. I think after the Civil War, many in Washington were sort of tired of all the states rights exceptions which continually blocked Congress.

    • #8
    • November 1, 2018, at 5:46 PM PDT
    • Like
  9. James Lileks Contributor

    If EJ had asked, I would have given him my official crew photo from my tour of duty on the Enterprise. 

    • #9
    • November 1, 2018, at 8:01 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  10. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    With a name like Peter Robinson shouldn’t one person be photoshopped as a member of Lost in Space instead of Dr. McCoy?

    • #10
    • November 2, 2018, at 6:04 AM PDT
    • Like
  11. Phil Turmel Coolidge

    For what it’s worth, I identified the news media, especially newspapers, as enemies of the American People way back in 1995. Journalists and TV talking heads are more obvious about it in recent years, and downright deranged since Trump’s election, but it isn’t a new idea. Seth’s horror that Trump would tweet to that effect suggests a level of willful ignorance and/or ideological blindness that justifies all of the criticisms made of the purported “conservative” pundit class. “Thoroughgoing conservative” is not how I would describe Mr. Mandel.

    • #11
    • November 2, 2018, at 9:41 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  12. Max Ledoux Admin

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    For what it’s worth, I identified the news media, especially newspapers, as enemies of the American People way back in 1995. Journalists and TV talking heads are more obvious about it in recent years, and downright deranged since Trump’s election, but it isn’t a new idea. Seth’s horror that Trump would tweet to that effect suggests a level of willful ignorance and/or ideological blindness that justifies all of the criticisms made of the purported “conservative” pundit class. “Thoroughgoing conservative” is not how I would describe Mr. Mandel.

    Reminds me of Inauguration Day when the media lied about the crowd sizes by comparing photos from early in the day for Trump to photos of the time of the inauguration for Obama. Sean Spicer came out and yelled at the press about that and also about the journalist lying about the Martin Luther King Jr bust. My wife and I were in the car listening on satellite radio and cheered. It was so satisfying to hear these lying liars called out for being liars. Immediately afterward (and here I’m finally getting to my point) the Fox News Special Report panel reacted to Spicer’s comments. Krauthammer (may he rest in peace) and the liberal on the panel were not happy with Spicer. Only Mollie Hemingway, the best Fox News Contributor, understood that the media deserved opprobrium. My point (finally got there), is that members of the media tend to circle the wagons no matter what. So you have so-called conservatives in the media who just don’t understand that a lot of Americans hate the media.

    Like me. I hate the media. Because it’s made up of liar partisan hacks who lie constantly.

    And every time some “journalist” or commentator whines about Trump saying “the media” is the enemy of the people, it’s just another example of them lying, because that’s not even what he says. He always says the “fake news is the enemy of the people.” The lying liars can’t even get that right. 

    Did I mention I hate the media.

    • #12
    • November 2, 2018, at 10:57 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  13. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    For what it’s worth, I identified the news media, especially newspapers, as enemies of the American People way back in 1995.

    I think Rush Limbaugh’s dad figured it out over 50 years ago. 

    I think a lot of others figured it out during the time of the Vietnam War, the Kennedy mania, etc.

    • #13
    • November 2, 2018, at 12:08 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  14. Annefy Member

    Still laugh at the sanctimonious tut tutting over DT’s tweets. 

    • #14
    • November 2, 2018, at 12:19 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  15. Taras Coolidge

    @maxledoux — “Only Mollie Hemingway, the best Fox News Contributor, understood that the media deserved opprobrium.” Every Sunday, she is the voice of reason on Fox’s Mediabuzz.

    I would date it to 1968, when the liberal media decided the Vietnam War was lost, and from that point on refused to entertain the ample evidence to the contrary. They simply couldn’t bear it, that once again a Republican President (especially Nixon) would pull the Democrats’ chestnuts out of the fire, as had happened in Korea just 15 years earlier. 

    What they were doing was similar to what the Democratic press did in 1864; fortunately, back then, there was also a Republican press which told the truth, that the Confederacy was hanging on by its fingernails. 

     By the time of the Iraq War, of course, we had talk radio and Fox News and the Internet, and the liberal media no longer had the unrestrained power to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    • #15
    • November 2, 2018, at 12:32 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  16. Egg Man Member

    Why is Rob the captain? And shouldn’t Peter be the Vulcan?

    • #16
    • November 2, 2018, at 12:44 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  17. Taras Coolidge

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    For what it’s worth, I identified the news media, especially newspapers, as enemies of the American People way back in 1995. Journalists and TV talking heads are more obvious about it in recent years, and downright deranged since Trump’s election, but it isn’t a new idea. Seth’s horror that Trump would tweet to that effect suggests a level of willful ignorance and/or ideological blindness that justifies all of the criticisms made of the purported “conservative” pundit class. “Thoroughgoing conservative” is not how I would describe Mr. Mandel.

    I have just been listening to a Jim Geraghty podcast, not in Ricochet, in which he explains the Harvard Asian discrimination lawsuit to his partner, also an alleged conservative, who seems to know nothing about it.

    Now, if you’re acquainted with the case, you know that it involves really blatant discrimination; for example, a difference of over 200 points on the SATs (out of 1600) between Asians and blacks accepted to Harvard. (Slightly less between whites and blacks. )

    But that’s not what Geraghty describes. In his version, these are “slight“ racial preferences, and there are Asians on both sides of the issue. In fact, his account is very similar to what appeared in the liberal New Yorker recently. Which may be where he got it!

    • #17
    • November 2, 2018, at 12:53 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. kedavis Member

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    With a name like Peter Robinson shouldn’t one person be photoshopped as a member of Lost in Space instead of Dr. McCoy?

    Excellent point.

    Now, who should be Dr Smith, and who should be the Robot?

    • #18
    • November 2, 2018, at 3:28 PM PDT
    • Like
  19. kedavis Member

    Have John Eastman on to talk about birthright citizenship.

    • #19
    • November 2, 2018, at 3:30 PM PDT
    • Like
  20. kedavis Member

    Egg Man (View Comment):

    Why is Rob the captain? And shouldn’t Peter be the Vulcan?

    Either Peter or James as “Spock,” is cultural appropriation. For shame!

    • #20
    • November 2, 2018, at 3:38 PM PDT
    • Like
  21. kedavis Member

    @blueyeti : no apostrophe in “caravans.”

    And it’s “geek out” not “geek our.”

    And, Emmylou Harris, not Emmy Lous.

    And, just one d in Ronstadt.

    • #21
    • November 2, 2018, at 3:41 PM PDT
    • Like
  22. Rōnin Inactive

    First one of these I’ve listen in a while. I agree with barrister Yoo that The Donald’s proposals on what to do with the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship will come to naught, but he has spoken the unspeakable, and it has to be dealt with now. Seems like Rob has settled down to “I don’t like” Trump’s personality – and tweets. The Halloween segment was good, looks like Rob and Peter are settling into their “old man-get off my grass” phase. James was great as always.

    • #22
    • November 2, 2018, at 3:49 PM PDT
    • Like
  23. Blue Yeti Admin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    @blueyeti : no apostrophe in “caravans.”

    And it’s “geek out” not “geek our.”

    And, Emmylou Harris, not Emmy Lous.

    And, just one d in Ronstadt.

    Fixed. And thanks.

    • #23
    • November 2, 2018, at 4:38 PM PDT
    • Like
  24. Blue Yeti Admin

    Rōnin (View Comment):

    First one of these I’ve listen in a while. I agree with barrister Yoo that The Donald’s proposals on what to do with the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship will come to naught, but he has spoken the unspeakable, and it has to be dealt with now. Seems like Rob has settled down to “I don’t like” Trump’s personality – and tweets. The Halloween segment was good, looks like Rob and Peter are settling into their “old man-get off my grass” phase. James was great as always.

    You should listen more often.

    And I never do this but since I mangled this week’s show description so badly, I’ll atone for it by announcing that our guest on next week’s podcast will be Ben Shapiro.

    • #24
    • November 2, 2018, at 4:39 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  25. kedavis Member

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rōnin (View Comment):

    First one of these I’ve listen in a while. I agree with barrister Yoo that The Donald’s proposals on what to do with the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship will come to naught, but he has spoken the unspeakable, and it has to be dealt with now. Seems like Rob has settled down to “I don’t like” Trump’s personality – and tweets. The Halloween segment was good, looks like Rob and Peter are settling into their “old man-get off my grass” phase. James was great as always.

    You should listen more often.

    And I never do this but since I mangled this week’s show description so badly, I’ll atone for it by announcing that our guest on next week’s podcast will be Ben Shapiro.

    Have John Eastman too, and you’ve really got a show!

    • #25
    • November 2, 2018, at 5:43 PM PDT
    • Like
  26. kedavis Member

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    @blueyeti : no apostrophe in “caravans.”

    And it’s “geek out” not “geek our.”

    And, Emmylou Harris, not Emmy Lous.

    And, just one d in Ronstadt.

    Fixed. And thanks.

    Mostly fixed. Emmylou is one word.

    • #26
    • November 2, 2018, at 5:46 PM PDT
    • Like
  27. kedavis Member

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):

    1. There is a rule of legal construction against considering language superfluous – the words are there to mean something.
    2. Over 300 babies were born on Ellis Island, technically part of New Jersey, but those babies were not considered citizens because their parents had not yet become subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
    3. John should know better than continue to use ad hominums pointing out the racial animus frequently attached to this issue, all to distract from the good faith arguments of his opponents.
    4. If a bunch of folks approaching the border say we don’t care about your stinkin’ laws, we’re coming in for economic reconquista, how is that different from anchor babies being the children of invaders or foreign soldiers?

    The people who take “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” to mean “they can get traffic tickets or be prosecuted for criminal acts etc” are seriously oversimplifying the issue.

    • #27
    • November 2, 2018, at 6:03 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  28. kedavis Member

    The idea that the NuTrek movies are “better” because they got more money, is basically specious. If they REALLY wanted more money to be “successful,” they could have made Fifty Shades Of Kirk or something. (Or even more profitable, Fifty Shades Of Spock.) And that wouldn’t really be Star Trek either.

    • #28
    • November 2, 2018, at 6:05 PM PDT
    • Like
  29. Rōnin Inactive

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Rōnin (View Comment):

    First one of these I’ve listen in a while. I agree with barrister Yoo that The Donald’s proposals on what to do with the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship will come to naught, but he has spoken the unspeakable, and it has to be dealt with now. Seems like Rob has settled down to “I don’t like” Trump’s personality – and tweets. The Halloween segment was good, looks like Rob and Peter are settling into their “old man-get off my grass” phase. James was great as always.

    You should listen more often.

    And I never do this but since I mangled this week’s show description so badly, I’ll atone for it by announcing that our guest on next week’s podcast will be Ben Shapiro.

    When I’m “down range” I listen to all of them, a little taste of home. You do a good job @blueyeti and I will try to listen more often.

    • #29
    • November 2, 2018, at 7:01 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  30. blood thirsty neocon Inactive

    The press can incite violence against Republicans; they can deal with the blowback.

    • #30
    • November 3, 2018, at 12:42 PM PDT
    • 1 like
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