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  1. TKC1101 Inactive
    TKC1101
    @TKC1101

    All I got from this is that all conservatives secretly watch some show called “Modern Family” and are ashamed to tell.  If that adolescent drivel is what passes for conservative punditry, I will take a pass.

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  2. Ricochet Contributor
    Ricochet
    @TitusTechera

    TKC1101:All I got from this is that all conservatives secretly watch some show called “Modern Family” and are ashamed to tell. If that adolescent drivel is what passes for conservative punditry, I will take a pass.

    Probably, most comedies could be called adolescent drivel, as also most comic talk. I get the sense that if you had stumbled into the tavern where Falstaff & Prince Hal talked, you’d call that adolescent drivel, too. You need to have some patience with comedy & maybe a liking for unseriousness.

    For one, inasmuch as the’re professional, these people know at least some of the things whereof they speak–that should earn them credit with the serious people. For another, conservatives really do have trouble with all the music, movies, &c. that are so influential with the young. That’s also a serious problem serious conservatives should face.

    I don’t think anyone would shout you down if you pulled the numbers & pointed out, only so many people watch that show, or any other. It’s not that everyone or every conservative watches it–the point seems to have been, these shows matter to Americans as Americans & conservatives cannot afford to abandon popular entertainment & do not know how to deal with it.

    I think this notion that tv shows are conservative is wrong. Storytelling can very well be unconservative & still be great art. But especially mediocre stuff can be unconservative, because it flatters people’s desire for happiness on the cheap.

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  3. Fricosis Guy Listener
    Fricosis Guy
    @FricosisGuy

    TKC1101:All I got from this is that all conservatives secretly watch some show called “Modern Family” and are ashamed to tell. If that adolescent drivel is what passes for conservative punditry, I will take a pass.

    Perhaps Rob was being polite, but he usually makes the point that mass entertainment does not attract the audiences it used to. In this case, Modern Family has ~10 million viewers/week in a >300 million population country.

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  4. Wineguy13 Thatcher
    Wineguy13
    @Wineguy13

    TKC1101:All I got from this is that all conservatives secretly watch some show called “Modern Family” and are ashamed to tell. If that adolescent drivel is what passes for conservative punditry, I will take a pass.

    I don’t think that this brief podcast is trying to be what passes for conservative punditry writ large.  Indeed, the subject is the influence of popular culture, so it follows that popular culture is addressed.  I have heard some pretty deep conservative punditry on Ricochet.  The speakers actually addressed this toward the end when they talk about popular culture throughout history.

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  5. TKC1101 Inactive
    TKC1101
    @TKC1101

    Titus Techera:

    TKC1101:All I got from this is that all conservatives secretly watch some show called “Modern Family” and are ashamed to tell. If that adolescent drivel is what passes for conservative punditry, I will take a pass.

    Probably, most comedies could be called adolescent drivel, as also most comic talk. I get the sense that if you had stumbled into the tavern where Falstaff & Prince Hal talked, you’d call that adolescent drivel, too. You need to have some patience with comedy & maybe a liking for unseriousness.

    For one, inasmuch as the’re professional, these people know at least some of the things whereof they speak–that should earn them credit with the serious people. For another, conservatives really do have trouble with all the music, movies, &c. that are so influential with the young. That’s also a serious problem serious conservatives should face.

    I don’t think anyone would shout you down if you pulled the numbers & pointed out, only so many people watch that show, or any other. It’s not that everyone or every conservative watches it–the point seems to have been, these shows matter to Americans as Americans & conservatives cannot afford to abandon popular entertainment & do not know how to deal with it.

    I think this notion that tv shows are conservative is wrong. Storytelling can very well be unconservative & still be great art. But especially mediocre stuff can be unconservative, because it flatters people’s desire for happiness on the cheap.

    Sorry, Titus but I seem to have upset you a bit. My phrase ‘adolescent” refers to the punditry and not the comedy. Having been onstage for Shakespeare comedies with a historically anal director, I can attest to you that Falstaff and Prince Hal conversations would have a depth and richness rarely seen on television.

    A pundit who refers to Steven Colbert as ‘stereotyping” conservatives and then goes on the stereotype conservatives is a level below what I have come to enjoy in Ricochet podcasts.  I hear one can watch MSNBC for such entertainment. The pundit exhibited all the qualities of adolescents, certainty, tunnel vision viewpoint and unearned smugness.

    • #5
  6. Ricochet Contributor
    Ricochet
    @TitusTechera

    TKC1101:Sorry, Titus but I seem to have upset you a bit. My phrase ‘adolescent” refers to the punditry and not the comedy. Having been onstage for Shakespeare comedies with a historically anal director, I can attest to you that Falstaff and Prince Hal conversations would have a depth and richness rarely seen on television.

    A pundit who refers to Steven Colbert as ‘stereotyping” conservatives and then goes on the stereotype conservatives is a level below what I have come to enjoy in Ricochet podcasts. I hear one can watch MSNBC for such entertainment. The pundit exhibited all the qualities of adolescents, certainty, tunnel vision viewpoint and unearned smugness.

    No need to be sorry–I’m not upset, just baffled. I did not understand what you meant. I think you may have a point about the stereotyping, I just did not think it was badly done.

    I’m not sure I can disagree with you–I certainly disagree with their opinion of the popular entertainments. They have little to offer right-thinking men. Well, maybe I can disagree with you on one point–I think they are arguing for more respect for vulgarity, so to speak, which I fully second. I suspect you might disapprove of that.

    I think they are believe conservatives are moralistic. That criticism has merit. I am not sure, however, it describes the majority of people. I do consider that these men are not just professionals–but that they speak of the conservatives they have met.

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  7. user_30416 Member
    user_30416
    @LeslieWatkins

    I greatly enjoyed this podcast. One of the best from the summit. Thanks guys for putting it together.

    • #7
  8. Jim Kearney Contributor
    Jim Kearney
    @JimKearney

    Good panel, Rob. Thanks for letting us in on the conversation.

    I enjoyed hearing Adam Bellow. Most of those self-publishing conservative authors out there won’t fit through the Liberty Island pipeline, of course. I hope he’s checking out those properties and finding a select few built to entertain large audiences. Posthumous profitability is the author’s least favorite variety.

    Bellow suggests that the conservative think tanks and foundations blazed a trail for the age of talk radio and cable news. Perhaps. Irving Kristol blazed a trail in wisdom and truth-seeking for his son Bill and many others, just as Adam’s father lit as bright a candle as any in the literary world. Still, I credit the mass market for conservative media to strong-willed free market fighter-strivers named Rush, Rupert, and Roger.

    In any event, the infrastructure conservative media entrepreneurs require today incorporates capital investment, distribution, and perhaps above all else, publicity and promotion.

    For lower budget productions I suppose that could mean a YouTube channel or something with visibility inside a Netflix or Amazon platform.

    Higher end efforts still require a production studio with access to cable channel distribution on the TV side. Probably the best way to configure something like Rob’s excellent “America” network concept would be for one of the conservative billionaires to simply acquire an existing network and re-brand it. I mean, hell, if Al Gore could make money holding on to a channel for a few years with a failed content concept, it’s certainly worth trying for an idea with an actual audience.

    And yes, TURN! on AMC is a fine show, and well worth watching. For those wondering what all the fuss about Modern Family is about, just go back and watch the first season, when it was laugh out loud funny.

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  9. user_1030767 Inactive
    user_1030767
    @TheQuestion

    I think that George Lucas achieved something impressive in that he is probably responsible for perhaps the greatest example of a “good war” in American popular culture (the original Star Wars trilogy), while also creating the greatest example of a futile, pointless war (the Clone Wars).

    The Empire represents all that is evil, and the Rebellion has an absolutely just cause.  In the Clone Wars, the leader of each side is the same guy!  It would be like if Hitler was just a disguise FDR wore while he plays Axis and Allies against each other for his personal advantage.  Could there possibly be a more clear metaphor for war being pointless and a game that the rich play at the expense of the poor?

    The Clone Wars are obviously popular, judging by the merchandise and media associated with it.  I wonder how that’s shaping children’s concepts of war.

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  10. AndTheRest Inactive
    AndTheRest
    @AndTheRest

    My takeaways from an interesting conversation:

    • It wouldn’t be any fun to try to do “conservative” TV (…so we’ll be spared the pain of “Commander in Chief” but we’ll never get the reward of a “West Wing”).
    • “King of the Hill” is the most conservative TV show ever (…but did it have any lasting effect on the culture?)
    • “Will and Grace” and “Modern Family” are basically conservative shows (…which have done the opposite of conserving a word for an idea I’m in the middle of trying to teach my children)

    Questions:

    • So how DOES a show like “Modern Family” or “Will and Grace” happen? Do the creators start with “Let’s do good show. Maybe have some homosexual characters.” Or is it, “We want to do a show that mainstreams homosexuality. But to achieve that goal, it’s got to be really good.”
    • Do I wait in vain for a basically conservative show (or a new most conservative show ever) that actually moves public opinion on a conservative social justice cause (e.g. school choice, human rights for the unborn)?
    • #10
  11. user_668525 Inactive
    user_668525
    @NerinaBellinger

    Regarding the visual arts and art throughout the centuries, let’s not forget the role of the Church in promoting, commissioning and preserving great works of art.

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  12. Jim Kearney Contributor
    Jim Kearney
    @JimKearney

    Nerina Bellinger:Regarding the visual arts and art throughout the centuries, let’s not forget the role of the Church in promoting, commissioning and preserving great works of art.

    The Papal development deals with Michelangelo were the most productive in history, comparable only with Sid Sheinberg signing Steven Spielberg.

    Smart of the Church to put Borgias and Medicis in charge of creative affairs for their Renaissance Productions subsidiary. Sure they were a little heavy-handed, tougher even than Mike Ovitz in his CAA days, but look at the results! Probably the greatest concentration of talent in history, outside of (Sid) Caesar’s writers’ room.

    • #12