MATGA

 

With the MAGA movement in full swing, maybe now is a good time to Make Air Travel Great Again.  I have fond memories of flying in the 70s; easy, simple, inexpensive, relaxing, meal on board. And nowadays it’s unbelievably awful.

Here’s an American Airlines 747 piano bar commercial, including Chet Huntley, the Fonz, Frasier’s dad (possibly), and a Wurlitzer electric piano.


So how can we MATGA?

Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy has actually asked for suggestions:

And not surprisingly, most responses involve dismantling the TSA.

I agree, ditch the TSA. They’ve never caught any terrorist threat. Ditch the lines, the delays, taking out all your stuff to be x-rayed, removing shoes, the body scans, the agents feeling people up, the weird, arbitrary limits on liquids; all of that needs to go.

Replace the TSA with “cops fly for free.” Problem solved.

Replace the air traffic control system with modern technology. Use software to detect potential flight traffic problems, and AI systems to direct plane traffic overall. Have additional software to monitor the AI. Have a small number of people to oversee things and to handle non-trivial issues.

See also @susanquinn’s post, The Failing Air Traffic Control System.

And come up with a solution to picking up passengers that’s better than officers shooing your car away and having to make another round.  That’s so ridiculous.

Your ideas?

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  1. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    My heart is with you, noD; great post. I’m just old enough to remember the tail end of those days.

    But my wallet, less so. Airlines could afford to pamper you, because Federal regulations guarded their profits. Adjusted for inflation those old time air tickets weren’t cheap. That’s what made those gourmet dinners possible. People paid more. 

    We didn’t ask as much from airlines in those days–things like seamless access for the handicapped, a good record for following noise abatement and pollution regulations. Cabin entertainment was simpler. They didn’t have to compete with dueling romcoms. 

    Cultural changes that didn’t have much directly to do with airlines also played a big role. Even among conservatives of the Sixties, by no means a Woke bunch, airline ad campaigns like comely cabin attendants bragging “We really move our tails for you” were tagged as problems. 

    • #1
  2. Chowderhead Coolidge
    Chowderhead
    @Podunk

    Does anyone remember Northwest Airlines (Edit: Midwest Express) back when they were good? All business class seats from front to back. Hot chocolate chip cookies with a glass of milk. Mmmmm.

    All I ask for now is room for my knees and don’t kick my seat. Being able to open my laptop and get some work done is just wishful thinking.

    There are ways to mitigate TSA. First, go through the work and get TSA Precheck. CapitalOne will even pay for it if you have the card. Second, just put as many nips as you want in a clear plastic bag. They are under 3oz so…

    • #2
  3. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Let ARMED cops  fly free — no loaded gun, you have to pay….  .   Arm the flight crew also.

    What I want:

    1.   No Boeing.    I would like to arrive at my destination safely.
    2.   High quality air traffic control.  Again,  I would like to arrive at my destination safely
    3.   Comfortable seats with enough leg room
    • #3
  4. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    namlliT noD:  I have fond memories of flying in the 60’s and 70’s; easy, simple, inexpensive, relaxing, meal on board. And nowadays it’s unbelievably awful.

    I agree that is frequently awful.  ( although a recent trip to Egypt was great, except for going through security 3 times at the Amman airport, and Heathrow confiscating my duct tape, an item I have been flying with since 2001.)

    But your reflection of airline travel being ” inexpensive” in the 60s and 70s is incorrect.

    A round trip coach ticket in 1960 from New York to London was 525$ equivalent to 7,000$ in 2025.

    A one way domestic flight from NY to LA was 270$ or about 3,000$ in 2025.

    In the 70s with some deregulation starting late in the decade, it improved somewhat, but still a round trip NY to London fare was about 2,200$ in 2025 equivalent..

    Basically, you can still get that wonderful, comfortable pampered service if you pay business or first class which is about the equivalent cost of a ticket in coach in the 1960s or 70s.

    When I worked for ARAMCO, they would buy me 3 round trip business class  tickets a year for my travel home.  Being the cheap SOB I am I took the cash and flew coach. 

    • #4
  5. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Chowderhead (View Comment):

    Does anyone remember Northwest Airlines back when they were good? All business class seats from front to back. Hot chocolate chip cookies with a glass of milk. Mmmmm.

    All I ask for now is room for my knees and don’t kick my seat. Being able to open my laptop and get some work done is just wishful thinking.

    There are ways to mitigate TSA. First, go through the work and get TSA Precheck. CapitalOne will even pay for it if you have the card. Second, just put as many nips as you want in a clear plastic bag. They are under 3oz so…

    Midwest. A small airline based in Wisconsin.  They had 2 by seating in the entire cabin and the seats were real leather. And fresh cookies.  Damn, I miss that airline.

    • #5
  6. Chowderhead Coolidge
    Chowderhead
    @Podunk

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Chowderhead (View Comment):

    Does anyone remember Northwest Airlines back when they were good? All business class seats from front to back. Hot chocolate chip cookies with a glass of milk. Mmmmm.

    All I ask for now is room for my knees and don’t kick my seat. Being able to open my laptop and get some work done is just wishful thinking.

    There are ways to mitigate TSA. First, go through the work and get TSA Precheck. CapitalOne will even pay for it if you have the card. Second, just put as many nips as you want in a clear plastic bag. They are under 3oz so…

    Midwest. A small airline based in Wisconsin. They had 2 by seating in the entire cabin and the seats were real leather. And fresh cookies. Damn, I miss that airline.

    Oh, your right. I would try to work them into every trip back then.

    • #6
  7. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    But my wallet, less so. Airlines could afford to pamper you, because Federal regulations guarded their profits. Adjusted for inflation those old time air tickets weren’t cheap. That’s what made those gourmet dinners possible. People paid more.

    We didn’t ask as much from airlines in those days–things like seamless access for the handicapped, a good record for following noise abatement and pollution regulations. Cabin entertainment was simpler. They didn’t have to compete with dueling romcoms.

    It seems we have had a different, more costly, set of regulations applied. Compliance applied on the airline, the workers, the vendors and the traveler all make it pretty miserable most of the time. Airport conditions are really unpleasant – flights land at the same time to meet point to point schedules and few are designed for the volume of travel. Like most travelers, I see no sign of where the fees in small print end up maintaining or improving transportation. (I just rented a car for a trip to see the ballet recital in NC. Boston has 1 non stop a day to Wilmington which makes it marginally more attractive than the many options through Charlotte, once a pleasant airport.) 

    • #7
  8. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    I remember when flying was something special.  You had beautiful young women serving you good food and beverages.  I remember as a ten-year-old, showing my fellow passengers my James Bond attache case toy, complete with its plastic firearm . . .

     

    • #8
  9. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Get into the tin can, strap yourself into your localizer, and pretend to pay attention to the lecture on how your cushion can be a floatation device. Here’s an envelope of peanuts.

    • #9
  10. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.  It feels like a race to the bottom.  We have booked a couple of upcoming international trips with business class to see if it’s more tolerable. I guess we’ll find out.

    As far as law enforcement on passenger flights, Mrs Tex was armed for the last 15 years of FedEx flying.  When she flew on domestic passenger flights (no pilot guns on international flights) the captain would tell every armed passenger where the others were seated.  She said that there were always multiple LEO’s on board. 

    • #10
  11. John H. Member
    John H.
    @JohnH

    As a passenger, I expect nothing of the airliner I am on except that it arrive – which it always does. As a pilot, I expect nothing of air traffic control except that it control air traffic – which it always does.

    • #11
  12. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    I’m no fan of TSA.  A lot of the issue could be handled with, profiling.  A certain demographic is the cause of nearly all the terrorism.  Thats how the Israelis deal with it.  And it’s worked wonders.  Concentrate on them, and randomly check the rest. The 75 year old nun is not going to be a threat.  The midwest mom struggling with 2 kids under three is not going to blow up the plane.  You know. Common sense.  Of course thats not allowed.

    But.

    I have a friend who was fairly high up in TSA until recently.   He would tell me that the enemy was constantly probing and trying to circumvent our security for flights and that if I knew it would “curl my hair”. there is a real reason for the liquid ban.  They had solid evidence the moos were making exploding laptop look alikes .  Lots of other things that he could not tell me.  So just having an armed guard on the plane is not going to stop them from trying to blow a plane out of the sky.

    • #12
  13. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    One of the root causes is that capitalism and regulations have eliminated operating margins.   Pilots/crews are limited in the hours/day they can work and airlines schedule at the limit.   Gates are expensive, so they are scheduled at the limit.  Runways, taxiways, ATC, maintenance,….  everything is at the limit, so any interruption causes a cascade of failures and rescheduling.  The system cannot be robust like it used to be.  The air industry is a victim of its own success. 

    I don’t know what the fix is, since people are really keen on paying a little as possible for airfare.

    • #13
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.  

    The ticket prices are too low. Far too low. 

    • #14
  15. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.

    The ticket prices are too low. Far too low.

    People have proven that they’ll take the low fares over creature comforts. That puts all the competition at the lower end of service.

    • #15
  16. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Percival (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.

    The ticket prices are too low. Far too low.

    People have proven that they’ll take the low fares over creature comforts. That puts all the competition at the lower end of service.

    Then they need to shut up about all of their complaints, including the bailouts. 

    • #16
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    This is how I do it. I get there two hours early, minimum. I get a 40 minute massage. All I do when I’m flying is stare at X. When I get off the plane, I get absolutely hammered. If I can upgrade to first class without too much expense, I will do it.

    • #17
  18. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    The TSA security theater is the primary reason we have not been on an airplane in two full years, after 40 plus years of flying multiple times per year (almost exclusively domestic; I am now retired, and so no longer traveling for business). For many years prior to stopping flying altogether, our threshold for the length of trip for the drive or fly decision grew. The security lines and searches particularly annoy my wife, as there always seems to be something (one of her hair clips, a belt or other clothing fastener, a pocket construction) that prompts a supplemental search. And I see little to no evidence that the current security process actually ensures security.

    When I flew regularly, I would sometimes pay to upgrade to first class, but that doesn’t change the TSA process.

    A secondary issue is how crowded planes are, as the airlines have gotten very good at maximizing seat occupancy. We don’t mind the crowded planes per se, but the collateral issue that when a problem arises (weather delays and cancellations, equipment malfunctions, etc.) it may take DAYS to get to your destination because there are so few available seats on subsequent flights. Although such an event may not be common, it’s enough to cause concern about whether we’ll actually make our schedule. A few years ago weather at an airline hub cancelled a bunch of flights. While our fellow passengers were being rescheduled to flights 3, 4, even 5 days in the future, we found out that if we rushed to an airport a hundred miles away we could get a series of flights to our destination in time for our son’s wedding 2 days hence. It still messed up our hotel and car rental reservations.

    • #18
  19. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    As a child in the late 1950s and through the 1960s I flew relatively frequently. My father had a fairly high income. My parents chose to live modestly (house, car, clothes, etc.) but splurge on travel (domestic to visit grandparents and other family and internationally for fun). My brother and I knew that air travel was special because it was expensive, and that we were privileged to be able to do so. As a special event, we did “dress up” for air travel.

    I was regularly flying up and down the west coast (USA) at the time air travel was deregulated (1978 – 81, between my family home in Orange County, CA and school in Salem, OR). When air travel was deregulated, the airfare rather quickly dropped to half what it was under the regulated system. My recollection is the regulated fare was $300 in 1979 dollars, and dropped to $150 in 1979 dollars. But, United Airlines dropped service to Salem, so I had to fly into Portland, 50 miles north. A commercial van shuttle service quickly arose to take me and others between the Salem airport (where we could park for free) and the Portland airport.

    But now, consumers tell airlines (by the tickets they buy) that the consumers are looking for the cheapest price possible. So, the airlines respond by racing to the bottom, as noted above by @tex929rr in comment#10. Before we stopped flying, we flew mostly Southwest Airlines. It has been many years since Southwest was a “discount” airline, but I valued Southwest’s simple and straightforward pricing, with minimal add-on fees, and so I’d pay Southwest’s often higher price. (I know many don’t like the open seating plan, but once we figured out how to manage it, we found it OK.) But now that Southwest has joined the other airlines in complicated fare structures with add-on fees, I would find no reason to choose Southwest over other airlines (except possibly that from my home near Dallas, Southwest’s home airport (Love Field) is easier to navigate than the giant sprawl of Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW)).

    • #19
  20. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.  It feels like a race to the bottom.

    Many consumer markets are extremely price sensitive.  That’s just the way it is.  Consumers can get a little obsessive about saving every penny.

    But air travel also includes a lot of business and the non-consumer customers.

    • #20
  21. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Kozak (View Comment):
    Basically, you can still get that wonderful, comfortable pampered service if you pay business or first class which is about the equivalent cost of a ticket in coach in the 1960s or 70s.

    Many people say they would happily pay more money for tickets if the seats were more roomy and the ride more luxurious.  But if you ask why they didn’t buy first-class tickets, they will say, “Not that much extra!”

    • #21
  22. namlliT noD Member
    namlliT noD
    @DonTillman

    I distinctly remember around 1970 or so a commuter flight from Boston to Laguardia was around $18.00.

    And I just walked on the plane, purchased the ticket on board.

     

    • #22
  23. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    namlliT noD:

    I agree, ditch the TSA. They’ve never caught any terrorist threat. Ditch the lines, the delays, taking out all your stuff to be x-rayed, removing shoes, the body scans, the agents feeling people up, the weird arbitrary limits on liquids; all of that needs to go.

    Replace the TSA with “cops fly for free”. Problem solved.

     

    I still remember many years ago sitting on an airliner next to a deputy sheriff who was escorting a prisoner and the deputy telling me with amusement that while he was permitted to carry his (loaded) service pistol, TSA refused to let him take his razor and razor blade. 

    A friend who is retired law enforcement has done a lot of retrieving prisoners across distances, has told me that they would drive ridiculously long distances rather than fly because of 1) the apparent cost of flying (I guess the value of the deputy’s time doesn’t count?) and 2) the hassles involved in getting clearance to fly with a firearm. 

    • #23
  24. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Nothing but cheers from me for this post. As a (formerly) six foot five and (still) 280 pound guy, the seating is hellish. Even seats at the doors are miserable. And in the regular seats, if the guy in front of me reclines his seat back, my kneecaps are toast. The tray tables are utterly useless. 

    If I can drive it in three days or less I’m driving. When I had my dear departed Ford Transit Connect, it was actually a pleasure to drive long distances. 

    • #24
  25. Lord Rabbit von Hasenpfeffer Member
    Lord Rabbit von Hasenpfeffer
    @ape2ag

    Air travel would be a lot more pleasant if it cost twice as much and half as many people flew.  I would like that since I don’t travel much and can afford to pay more.  However, a lot of people have organized their lives around quick cheap travel, and comfy business travel as a tax free perk isn’t that common anymore.  We aren’t going back.

    • #25
  26. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    My recollection is that the lounges on the 747 disappeared fairly quickly as the airlines figured out they could make a lot more money if that space were filled with seats that they could sell.  

    • #26
  27. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.

    The ticket prices are too low. Far too low.

    People have proven that they’ll take the low fares over creature comforts. That puts all the competition at the lower end of service.

    Then they need to shut up about all of their complaints, including the bailouts.

    Normally, the market would respond with some airline providing higher quality for a higher price, but there are many common infrastructure items (ATC, Security, runway scheduling,…) that are outside their control, so they focus on what they can (priority loading, priority drinking, and better seats).

     

    • #27
  28. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    namlliT noD (View Comment):

    I distinctly remember around 1970 or so a commuter flight from Boston to Laguardia was around $18.00.

    And I just walked on the plane, purchased the ticket on board.

     

    I remember that too. In fact, I took it a few times. 

    • #28
  29. Cazzy Member
    Cazzy
    @Cazzy

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    My recollection is that the lounges on the 747 disappeared fairly quickly as the airlines figured out they could make a lot more money if that space were filled with seats that they could sell.

    That’s exactly right.  I was fortunate to fly business class to Europe  in the 80s (paid for by my father’s employer) and I loved getting a seat in the old 747 lounge up the circular stairs.  You had larger seats than economy and a small quiet cabin.

    • #29
  30. Steve Fast Member
    Steve Fast
    @SteveFast

    Percival (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    I think the problem is the vast majority of people shop for the cheapest flights, and the carriers add all these ridiculous upcharges to try to maintain profits.

    The ticket prices are too low. Far too low.

    People have proven that they’ll take the low fares over creature comforts. That puts all the competition at the lower end of service.

    But you (and every other passenger) has the option to purchase business class, or even premium economy.

    • #30
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