It’s not immigration. It’s Hijrah.

 

A must-read column was published a few days ago on Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Courage Media: Does America Have a Muslim Problem?  It’s long, but please read the whole thing.

It explains that Europe is rapidly being destroyed by an occupying force, and America is making many of the same mistakes.  It points out that while 1% of the American population is Muslim, in the UK it’s 6%, in London it’s 15%, in Sweden it’s 10%, in France it’s 13%, and so on.  Even though half of British Muslims were born in Britain, 71% of them consider themselves Muslim “first and foremost,” and 27% view themselves as primarily British.  I suspect that 71% would be much higher if the person asking the question were an intense, bearded Middle Eastern man wearing traditional Muslim garb on the front porch of the person being interrogated.  Which he will be, soon.

Britain now has over 3,000 mosques, 130 Sharia courts, and 50 Sharia councils.  But this couldn’t happen in America, right?  Well, America now has a Muslim-majority city, Hamtramck, Michigan.  It’s a city of nearly 30,000 people near Detroit.  At first Hamtramck’s city council was Muslim-majority.  Now it’s a Muslim monopoly.  A couple of years ago, the all-Muslim city council unanimously banned Pride flags from the city.  American progressives, who endorse mass immigration from Muslim countries, were appalled.  Why?  I’m not sure.

And it’s not just Michigan:

In Texas, meanwhile, the East Plano Islamic Center (EPIC), EPIC City is a planned on a 400-acre development, as a Muslim enclave, with over 1,000 homes, a mosque, and an Islamic school.  Described by some as a “Sharia City”, the EPIC project does not suggest assimilation or cultural convergence, but what some might see as “Hijrah” (migration to advance Islam).

Discovered by an FBI raid in 2004, the 1991 “Explanatory Memorandum”, attributed to the Muslim Brotherhood, outlines a strategy for a “civilizational jihad” to promote Islam in North America.  It talks about a long term “Civilization-Jihadist Process”, establishing an Islamic Movement and “eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within” by infiltrating and “sabotaging” societal structures, making Islam dominant.

The essay then points out the origins of Western Civilization, and how different it is from Islam.  Diametrically opposed, in fact:

Western societies are WEIRD.  That is to say they are Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic (WEIRD), as described by psychologists Joseph Henrich, Steven Heine, and Ara Norenzayan in their seminal work The WEIRDest People in the World: How the West Became Psychologically Peculiar and Particularly Prosperous.

Western people are a psychological and cultural outlier, exhibiting traits and behaviors that diverge significantly from those found in most other cultures, particularly those traits in Muslim societies.

WEIRD individuals tend to prioritize individualism over collectivism, analytical reasoning over holistic thinking, and impersonal trust over clan-based loyalty.  These traits manifest in a cultural emphasis on personal achievement, abstract moral principles, and openness to strangers—attributes that are not universal norms.  For example, while many non-WEIRD societies, such as those in the Muslim world, emphasize familial and communal obligations, WEIRD cultures often celebrate individual choice and self-expression. This psychological orientation fosters innovation and economic prosperity but also sets WEIRD populations apart in their approach to social relationships and decision-making.

Muslim culture does not fit into Western culture.  Many Westerners wonder why Muslims wouldn’t want to assimilate into Western culture, not understanding that they simply can’t.  Not without abandoning the religion of their forefathers.  And for even thinking such a thought, they could be killed.  Plus, they’ve learned that Islam is good, and other cultures are evil.  Why WOULD they assimilate?  Who wants to risk being tortured to death so they can become evil?

So they’re stuck.  They’re not stupid, they’re just stuck.  Muslims don’t assimilate into Western cultures because they can’t.  Some individuals do, of course, but as a group, they tend to stick together and change their new country, rather than changing themselves to fit into their new country.

Note the phone booth in the picture at the top of this post – that lovely lady is in London, not Aleppo.  As are the rioters in the adjacent picture.  They seek to change English society to suit them.  Not the other way around.

After all, that’s what they’ve done in every country they’ve moved into so far.  To think that they won’t do that in America, too, is foolish.

Muslims leave their poor, violent, miserable home countries and move to better places, like London.  Very much like Californians moving to Nashville.  And Tennesseans are worried that Californians will bring their failed culture with them.  And they might.

But Muslims definitely will.  At least, that’s what they’ve done everywhere else they’ve gone.

Americans should take a look at what life is like in Muslim countries, and then stop to consider our immigration policies.  The purpose of American immigration policies is to improve America.  It’s not to save the whole world, no matter how much we’d like to do so.

It may be too late for Europe.  Hopefully, it’s not too late for us.

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  1. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    “He wants to be great, and he sees himself small. He wants to be happy, and he sees himself miserable. He wants to be perfect, and he sees himself full of imperfections. He wants to be the object of love and esteem among men, and he sees that his faults merit only their hatred and contempt. This embarrassment in which he finds himself produces in him the most unrighteous and criminal passion that can be imagined; for he conceives a mortal enmity against that truth which reproves him and which convinces him of his faults.”

    • #1
  2. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Latest from Vienna:

    “New figures from the City of Vienna show that children of Islamic faith now make up the largest single religious group in the city’s primary and secondary schools, accounting for 41.2 percent of all pupils. It’s a slight but noticeable increase from 39.4 percent last year – and it’s already fuelling new discussions about diversity, integration and how schools can help shape shared values in an increasingly pluralistic city.

    Councillor Emmerling has welcomed Vienna’s religious and cultural diversity, saying that the city encourages intensive dialogue between faith communities. But she also said that certain worrying trends – especially among Muslim youth – can’t be ignored.

    Recent studies, she added, have shown that young Muslims in Vienna tend to be not only more religious on average but also more likely to express discriminatory or exclusionary views. That includes anti-Semitic sentiments, hostility toward LGBTIQ people, and resistance to gender equality.”

    Link: https://www.thelocal.at/20250416/muslim-pupils-now-largest-group-in-vienna-schools-as-city-debates-civic-education

    • #2
  3. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    It’s the one problem with the West, the WEIRD West. We are wide open for virus. We allow, in the NAME of freedom, self-expression, liberty, and all that, invading forces to come in and capitalize on our trusting open welcome.

    But we don’t stand up for ourselves. Someone said that there’s an idea that kills all other ideas, and that’s the one idea that should be banned.

     It we don’t. We let them sleaze in and use our systems of openness against us.

    We do NOT stand up for ourselves. 

    It would probably all work if we just WOULD. Yes you can come and live here, but these are the rules: If your religious practices, your personal requirements, your dreams and fantasies, your ideas about how to treat women, children, or anybody else, if ANY of these things you bring with you violate OUR ideas about operating in a free society, then you will probably NOT be happy here.

    We will not change a single, tiny, teensy thing about our culture to accommodate you, or your beliefs. We don’t NEED you at all. We welcome you to experience OUR way of life, but we are not changing the language on our road signs, our requirements to show your face to the camera if you want a driver’s license, nothing. If you come here, it is with the understanding that you are going to live among people who are not like you, but are happy to tolerate you if you don’t cause too much trouble. If you like it here under those conditions, we’re happy to have you.

    But we sadly did not do this. We let people come here and start pushing us around. It is really insane, and I think suicidal.

    This is what caused the Crusades, and, though it took a few tries – and a great deal of bloodshed – they worked, and held for a few centuries.

    And then the WEIRD West just gave up.

    • #3
  4. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    It’s the secret sauce of traditional Islam.    Separation of Church and State is an alien concept.   In traditional Islam, the Church IS the State.   As such, traditional Islam is indeed incompatible with Western Civilization.   Historically,  Islam went from success to success from its birth and never endured the situation common to Judeo-Christian flavors where, at some point, the full power of the State was arrayed against the religion.   These periods fostered the development of the doctrine that religion is personal.   It’s not the State’s business.    This never happened in Islam.   And Islam has no concept of the State as a being a separate entity…divorced from religion.    So it’s entirely predictable that adherents of Islam see themselves as Muslims first and Nationals second.

    • #4
  5. Andrew Troutman Coolidge
    Andrew Troutman
    @Dotorimuk

    Do we want more Ilhan Omars and Rashida Tlaibs? Once you get a Muslim enclave, you get a permanent seat at the table for one of these goons.

    • #5
  6. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    About 10 – 12 years ago (as the “Muslim violence” problem in western Europe began to get the attention of the popular media), I saw some crude data (crude because it was by entire country, not by region within country) that Muslims formed either less than 20% of the population, or more than 80% of the population. No countries with 30 – 70 % Muslim population. That caused me to wonder, “Why?” Ever since, I have wanted to see more detailed information, but have not found any. 

    Why aren’t there countries in which large numbers of Muslims and people of other religions in more mixed societies? 

    Does that data carry through to more local regions? 

    The cynical part of me suspects that once a population of strict Muslims reaches a critical mass, life for others around them becomes difficult. Muslims don’t seem to coexist with other religions. 

     

    • #6
  7. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    About 10 – 12 years ago (as the “Muslim violence” problem in western Europe began to get the attention of the popular media), I saw some crude data (crude because it was by entire country, not by region within country) that Muslims formed either less than 20% of the population, or more than 80% of the population. No countries with 30 – 70 % Muslim population. That caused me to wonder, “Why?” Ever since, I have wanted to see more detailed information, but have not found any.

    Why aren’t there countries in which large numbers of Muslims and people of other religions in more mixed societies?

    Does that data carry through to more local regions?

    The cynical part of me suspects that once a population of strict Muslims reaches a critical mass, life for others around them becomes difficult. Muslims don’t seem to coexist with other religions.

     

    There are about 15 countries with a 30%-70% Muslim population. Among them, the big ones (pop: 20 million+) are: Nigeria, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Malaysia, Cameroon, and Burkina Faso.

    Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country#Countries

    • #7
  8. Michael Minnott Member
    Michael Minnott
    @MichaelMinnott

    GPentelie (View Comment):

    Latest from Vienna:

    “New figures from the City of Vienna show that children of Islamic faith now make up the largest single religious group in the city’s primary and secondary schools, accounting for 41.2 percent of all pupils. It’s a slight but noticeable increase from 39.4 percent last year – and it’s already fuelling new discussions about diversity, integration and how schools can help shape shared values in an increasingly pluralistic city.

    Councillor Emmerling has welcomed Vienna’s religious and cultural diversity, saying that the city encourages intensive dialogue between faith communities. But she also said that certain worrying trends – especially among Muslim youth – can’t be ignored.

    Recent studies, she added, have shown that young Muslims in Vienna tend to be not only more religious on average but also more likely to express discriminatory or exclusionary views. That includes anti-Semitic sentiments, hostility toward LGBTIQ people, and resistance to gender equality.”

    Link: https://www.thelocal.at/20250416/muslim-pupils-now-largest-group-in-vienna-schools-as-city-debates-civic-education

    The type of thinking expressed by Emmerling requires a special kind of stupid.

    Not a lack of cognitive ability, or education.  It’s more of a willful ignorance.

    • #8
  9. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    Sounds like a news story of the year 1100. 

    • #9
  10. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    GPentelie (View Comment):

     

    There are about 15 countries with a 30%-70% Muslim population. Among them, the big ones (pop: 20 million+) are: Nigeria, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Ivory Coast, Malaysia, Cameroon, and Burkina Faso.

    Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country#Countries

    Nigeria has a mostly Muslim North and a Christian (+ trad religion) South. Most of it is not a mixed region.

    I don’t know about the others, but in Malaysia non-Muslims do face some difficulties. At least in part because they’re the descendants of Chinese and Indian immigrants, but wrt identity the line between ethnicity and religion is often not clear when it comes to defining in and out groups.

    Tbh I think that’s also true in Europe. And given their history it’s understandable that they’re wary of it.

    • #10
  11. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    From ‘Does America Have A Muslim Problem”:

    America has long been a melting pot, but as Europe is learning in the wake of large-scale Muslim immigration, some parts of the melting pot will not melt unless there’s a degree of cultural compatibility.

    That’s where the article goes off the rails. European countries are emphatically NOT melting pots. That is a qualitative difference between Europe and America.  And that is one reason why America consistently integrates immigrants better than Europe does. (Including Jewish immigrants.)

    Some more reasons: America has no oppressive history with its Muslim migrants (at least compared to Europe – eg see France/North Africa) and America’s migration laws meant that for many years Muslims (and other groups like Indian Hindus) that migrated could largely only do it if they had degrees from US Universities. They were not your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, they were your aspirational middle class.  That’s changed a bit with chain migration, but it’s still a big factor.

    Europe imported factory labour to replace the dead of WWII. I’m going to guess that middle class Americans who speak French would integrate better as migrants to France than working class Americans who don’t.  Just a hunch. 

    • #11
  12. Chris Williamson Member
    Chris Williamson
    @ChrisWilliamson

    There was a time when things were different in some parts of Dar al-Islam.

    • #12
  13. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Duplicate post.

    • #13
  14. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Chris Williamson (View Comment):

    There was a time when things were different in some parts of Dar al-Islam.

    I’ve seen similar photographs along with the argument that because some women wore miniskirts all women had more personal freedom in Iran under the Shah than they do now.

    That’s not the case.  Most women in Iran didn’t have that personal freedom under the Shah. Just those from the upper class. The same class whose corruption and contempt for their countrymen made the Islamic Revolution possible and for the equivalent in Afghanistan the ascendancy of the Taliban a reality. (Twice.)

    • #14
  15. Teeger Coolidge
    Teeger
    @Teeger

    Excellent post! But I do have a little observation: Most people who are committed to their faith put it ahead of their political and national commitments. As a Christian, I put my faith way above my patriotism. 

    We should expect Muslims to put their religion first, which, in their case, is the problem. It is their religion that is the problem. 

    • #15
  16. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Chris Williamson (View Comment):

    There was a time when things were different in some parts of Dar al-Islam.

    I’ve seen similar photographs along with the argument that because some women wore miniskirts all women had more personal freedom in Iran under the Shah than they do now.

    That’s not the case. Most women in Iran didn’t have that personal freedom under the Shah. Just those from the upper class. The same class whose corruption and contempt for their countrymen made the Islamic Revolution possible and for the equivalent in Afghanistan the ascendancy of the Taliban a reality. (Twice.)

    So, the liberation of women in the cities led to the Islamic Republic? You want a few more data points for that curve, or are you ready to run with that? Because both the Communists and the Islamicists launched that revolution. Khomeini knew what would happen next, and this time it was the Communists that got Mensheviked.

    • #16
  17. BillJackson Coolidge
    BillJackson
    @BillJackson

    Great post. I also recommend “Murder In Amsterdam” as a good book to see what it’s like from the perspective of a very left-leaning European’s point of view.

    This really struck me:

    Very much like Californians moving to Nashville.  And Tennesseans are worried that Californians will bring their failed culture with them.  And they might.

    For years I worked with a Left/Progressive person who very much believed George W. Bush was a Nazi, that Republicans were evil, etc., etc. He lived in Illinois at the time and grew up in California. Red States were, to him, evil enclaves.

    Yet where is he now? Now that he’s building a house and looking to retire? Tennessee.

    So while I don’t agree with/couldn’t live by the Muslim faith I do give them respect. They are adhering to their faith, compared to others who abandon their principles when it comes time to, you know, start investing their money. 

    • #17
  18. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Teeger (View Comment):
    Most people who are committed to their faith put it ahead of their political and national commitments. As a Christian, I put my faith way above my patriotism. 

    Of course.

    And Christianity fits well with Western Civilization.  In fact, Western Civilization is largely based on Christianity.

    Islam does not fit with Western Civilization.  

    So the more a Christian follows his faith, the better he fits into Western Civilization.  The more a Muslim follows his faith, the worse he fits into Western Civilization. 

    • #18
  19. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Zafar (View Comment):

    From ‘Does America Have A Muslim Problem”:

    America has long been a melting pot, but as Europe is learning in the wake of large-scale Muslim immigration, some parts of the melting pot will not melt unless there’s a degree of cultural compatibility.

    That’s where the article goes off the rails. European countries are emphatically NOT melting pots. That is a qualitative difference between Europe and America. And that is one reason why America consistently integrates immigrants better than Europe does. (Including Jewish immigrants.)

    Some more reasons: America has no oppressive history with its Muslim migrants (at least compared to Europe – eg see France/North Africa) and America’s migration laws meant that for many years Muslims (and other groups like Indian Hindus) that migrated could largely only do it if they had degrees from US Universities. They were not your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, they were your aspirational middle class. That’s changed a bit with chain migration, but it’s still a big factor.

    Europe imported factory labour to replace the dead of WWII. I’m going to guess that middle class Americans who speak French would integrate better as migrants to France than working class Americans who don’t. Just a hunch.

    It depends on which side is expected to assimilate.

    • #19
  20. Chris Williamson Member
    Chris Williamson
    @ChrisWilliamson

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Chris Williamson (View Comment):

    There was a time when things were different in some parts of Dar al-Islam.

    I’ve seen similar photographs along with the argument that because some women wore miniskirts all women had more personal freedom in Iran under the Shah than they do now.

    That’s not the case. Most women in Iran didn’t have that personal freedom under the Shah. Just those from the upper class. The same class whose corruption and contempt for their countrymen made the Islamic Revolution possible and for the equivalent in Afghanistan the ascendancy of the Taliban a reality. (Twice.)

    The Morality Police in Iran would publicly agree with you, along with the Taliban men.

    However, the fact of the presence of western garb, and freedom to get educated, and to freely walk around a city must mean something beyond corruption and contempt.

    (There’s also the issue of safety. In 1968 Marika Partridge and her family got in a station wagon and drove from India to Africa, and finally to England. They were safe back then driving through Muslim cultures and nations.)

     

    • #20
  21. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos
    1. In a spirit of ecumenical brotherhood, as Westerners express guilt for colonialism and slavery, we should invite our Muslim brothers and sisters to condemn their legacy of destruction of entire cultures and languages, the horrific slaughter of Islamic conquests and the enslavement of as many as 14 million Europeans and as many Asians and Africans.  If they reject that offer, what does that tell us about their fitness for participation in modern multi-cultural societies?
    2. Islam has rather limited adaptive skills because it claims to be the last word.  When Jesus was asked an intended gotcha political question by some smarmy MSM-type of that era, the response was ‘render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.’   In other words, adapt by thinking and living the principles and don’t try to make faith provide fixed prescriptions.  In contrast, Mohammed’s movement provided fixed, rather detailed prescriptions and total political, moral and social authority.   Christians and Jews have to figure out how to apply eternal truths to changing material circumstance.  Muslims wind up trying to change and amputate reality to force it back into fixed prescriptions written down 1300 years ago. 
    3. Mormons had to yield polygamy.  The first Catholic President had to formally renounce taking orders from the Vatican.  Why are Muslims not required to renounce that which is antithetical to the Western freedoms they seek to enjoy: The imposition of religion by force, husbands beating wives and marrying children and a program of non-reciprocal demands to impose their culture?  If a violent, misogynistic, imperialistic movement cannot be modified to extract positive principles and jettison its deeply offensive elements, does it belong in a free society?
    • #21
  22. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    For anyone who doubts or has any questions about Islam and its goals I would suggest Bernard Lewis. Two of his books are essential reading to my way of thinking. What Went Wrong and The Crisis of Islam. I read both several years ago, and their predictions and discussions have made what is happening all too clear.

    We in the west have a very different perspective on what we think of as history. We think relatively short term. In the east, both in China and the Middle East there is a much longer perspective, and, for them, it is all both immediate and relevant. For most of us, be we fallen Christians or Jews or simply unbelievers, the concept of submission which is essentially what Islam means is a foreign concept. For the believing Muslim it is his world. Before you can understand Islam you need to first wrap your head around that. Get rid of your western prejudices and cyncism, and grasp the fact that Muslims really, truly believe in their prophet and his teachings. There is no relativism in Islam. It is all absolute, and for anyone who isn’t an orthodox Christian or Jew, that concept is incredibly obtuse. However, if you think about the billions of dollars Qatar is spending in this country to corrupt our system and understand the driving force is Islam, you may begin to catch the wave. This is a war like no other we have ever fought. Understanding that is essential to winning or merely surviving.

    • #22
  23. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Eugene Kriegsmann (View Comment):
    We in the west have a very different perspective on what we think of as history. We think relatively short term. In the east, both in China and the Middle East there is a much longer perspective, and, for them, it is all both immediate and relevant. For most of us, be we fallen Christians or Jews or simply unbelievers, the concept of submission which is essentially what Islam means is a foreign concept. For the believing Muslim it is his world. Before you can understand Islam you need to first wrap your head around that.

    True.

    The faith of believing Christians and Jews have had to withstand secular critiques and adverse analyses from a variety of intellectual angles for centuries in the modern west.  Muslims intuitively recognize that if they permitted open discussion of the rather dubious origins of much of the hadith or second-guessing the actions of the ‘perfect example’ that it would not hold up well.  Fear, intimidation and denial are features, not bugs. 

    • #23
  24. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Eugene Kriegsmann (View Comment):

    For anyone who doubts or has any questions about Islam and its goals I would suggest Bernard Lewis. Two of his books are essential reading to my way of thinking. What Went Wrong and The Crisis of Islam. I read both several years ago, and their predictions and discussions have made what is happening all too clear.

    We in the west have a very different perspective on what we think of as history. We think relatively short term. In the east, both in China and the Middle East there is a much longer perspective, and, for them, it is all both immediate and relevant. For most of us, be we fallen Christians or Jews or simply unbelievers, the concept of submission which is essentially what Islam means is a foreign concept. For the believing Muslim it is his world. Before you can understand Islam you need to first wrap your head around that. Get rid of your western prejudices and cyncism, and grasp the fact that Muslims really, truly believe in their prophet and his teachings. There is no relativism in Islam. It is all absolute, and for anyone who isn’t an orthodox Christian or Jew, that concept is incredibly obtuse. However, if you think about the billions of dollars Qatar is spending in this country to corrupt our system and understand the driving force is Islam, you may begin to catch the wave. This is a war like no other we have ever fought. Understanding that is essential to winning or merely surviving.

    Ditto those two Bernard Lewis books. I have read both and heard it from him in person. His famous line is “The policy of mutual destruction for them isn’t a deterrent, but an inducement.”While we fear nuclear war, they believe it will bring a return of the Imam and a return to power, prosperity, a religious rewards. 

    • #24
  25. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Percival (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Chris Williamson (View Comment):

    There was a time when things were different in some parts of Dar al-Islam.

    I’ve seen similar photographs along with the argument that because some women wore miniskirts all women had more personal freedom in Iran under the Shah than they do now.

    That’s not the case. Most women in Iran didn’t have that personal freedom under the Shah. Just those from the upper class. The same class whose corruption and contempt for their countrymen made the Islamic Revolution possible and for the equivalent in Afghanistan the ascendancy of the Taliban a reality. (Twice.)

    So, the liberation of women in the cities led to the Islamic Republic?

    No, the corruption of the upper class did.  And their contempt for their countrymen.  (In fact the Shah’s whole rotten structure of governance.  Ironically this is [also] what will bring down the Islamic Republic, imo.) The fact that upper class women could dress as they pleased during the Shah’s time, while great for them, didn’t liberate anybody else.

    • #25
  26. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Chris Williamson (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Chris Williamson (View Comment):

    There was a time when things were different in some parts of Dar al-Islam.

    I’ve seen similar photographs along with the argument that because some women wore miniskirts all women had more personal freedom in Iran under the Shah than they do now.

    That’s not the case. Most women in Iran didn’t have that personal freedom under the Shah. Just those from the upper class. The same class whose corruption and contempt for their countrymen made the Islamic Revolution possible and for the equivalent in Afghanistan the ascendancy of the Taliban a reality. (Twice.)

    The Morality Police in Iran would publicly agree with you, along with the Taliban men.

    I’m not a fan of either, but they wouldn’t be wrong.

    However, the fact of the presence of western garb, and freedom to get educated, and to freely walk around a city must mean something beyond corruption and contempt.

    There are far more women studying in universities in Iran today than there were under the Shah.  This is not to praise the Islamic Revolution, only to place criticism in perspective.  There are plenty of reasons to criticise the current dispensation in Iran – starting but not ending with the curbs on personal freedoms – but women’s education isn’t really one of them.  (Afghanistan, on the other hand….)

    (There’s also the issue of safety. In 1968 Marika Partridge and her family got in a station wagon and drove from India to Africa, and finally to England. They were safe back then driving through Muslim cultures and nations.)

    I know people who drove the ‘Hippie Trail’ in their youth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail

    It sounds like it was awesome.  From the article:

    The hippie trail largely ended in the late 1970s primarily due to both the Iranian Revolution resulting in an anti-Western government, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, closing the route to Western travelers.

     

    • #26
  27. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    The pic above was taken in Isfahan.The lower pic was taken in Kabul. I was in Afghanistan in 1971 on a climbing expedition. We spent a few days in Kabul prior to the climb and following it. I heard stories of western women inappropriately dressed on the streets of Mazar e Sharif being stoned by Mullahs. The Afghan women we saw in Kabul were all dressed in Burkas, head to toe covers with mesh screening over the eyes. The only exception I saw was in the home of an Afghan friend of mine whose father had been the governor of Nuristan. Behind the walls of the estate was a very western environment with a swimming pool and my friend’s sisters dressed in skimpy suits swimming in the pool. It was sort of a shock. 

    • #27
  28. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    • #28
  29. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Wonderful if true but tough to quantify given the rather severe enforcement mechanisms in place.

    • #29
  30. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Dr. Bastiat: Muslim culture does not fit into Western culture.  Many Westerners wonder why Muslims wouldn’t want to assimilate into Western culture, not understanding that they simply can’t.  Not without abandoning the religion of their forefathers.  And for even thinking such a thought, they could be killed.  Plus, they’ve learned that Islam is good, and other cultures are evil.  Why WOULD they assimilate?  Who wants to risk being tortured to death so they can become evil?

    Bingo . . .

     

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