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The Outside Scoop on a Communist Pope
Howdy — this is not a religious commentary, as I leave that (mostly) to the members of their respective organizations.
The Pope exists in the real world and is an influential force in human affairs, and so this atheist feels more than qualified to comment on that basis. This is the same basis on which I approve of Protestant reforms (raised Protestant) despite having no religious charter for my views. Also, I find some Protestantism more agreeable than others. So much for my preferences — that’s not the point. Wars have been fought over this stuff, nations dissolved and founded, and from my admittedly atheist perspective, most religious wars are just ordinary wars for power and security (or personal glory) using a different label than the other options of race, ethnicity, nation-state, geography, or “vocation” (meaning a given people’s way of getting on).
I remember when liberty had a great ally in a sturdy and forthright man of a Pope. Reagan, Thatcher, John Paul II — those were heroic leaders united in a global crusade against the pure evil of Communism, winning WWIII without plunging the planet into fire.
I don’t care about a whole lot of Latinate terms and special pleading to principles that I do not recognize. To me, it’s all just so much of one organization claiming primacy over others, and within that organization, people claiming dominion over others. It reminds me of the scene in Braveheart where the squabbling Scots insist that fictional Will Wallace recognize these documents, no these documents — all of equally fictitious value — while the real value slips away. Or “Game of Thrones,” where the very present, pure, and unadulterated evil gains ground because the good guys are infighting. GoT is absolutely good vs. evil, and is a tale about losing sight of the actual evil while trying to get your foot on somebody else’s face to ascend the greasy pole.
So all this talk of sedevacantism and Magisteria and a lot more Latin words means nothing to me. I recognize that it means a great deal to some here, which is why this is not a comment on a different thread more oriented to that point of view.
The Communist Pope has fired a stalwart Bishop in the US, and Catholics propose to pray about it from within their respective dioceses, and to keep going to Mass because to not do so is haram. That is internal stuff to be sure, and I don’t much care about the why and the wherefore.
So I simply hope (which is prayer in my book) that Catholics are able to bring pressure to support the good guys in this continuing fight against Communism in additional ways that might not require divine action or sub-divine intercession. The Communist Pope is a man on the planet who sticks his infernal commie nose into politics all the time, and as such, is answerable to we who feel an interest in world events as such, without reference to beads and smoke and wine and wafers.
There are priests and Popes and Bishops and nuns and pews full of the faithful who are made of magnificent stuff, and who (historically, and no doubt presently) endure much, beyond what most can imagine. Their struggle is real, and I gratefully appreciate the civilizing force that religion, specifically including Catholicism, exerts on the progress of human affairs. Just as with the immense overlap in fortunes between Christians and Jews (despite a lot of unfit members under each label), there is immense overlap between the religious and your secular allies.
This Communist Pope doesn’t sound very Catholic to me, and it doesn’t surprise me that he fires good men. I do not wish him well, and if I had a prayer to offer, it would be for the welfare of those who have to deal with him more than I do, and for his swift replacement for whatever reason.
I do not care how he goes or why, just that he does so and soon. His effect on this world is an unalloyed evil — whatever his good points may be, they will easily fall under the bare minimum you might expect from somebody in his clothing. His bad points in contrast are his alone, have been on display for years, and do not get better. Good riddance whenever he goes.
The Pope occupies a position of real power in the real world. The real world is entitled to express its disdain without reference to any religious particulars.
And so it does.
Published in General
Hello BDB.
I hope you reconsider faith — ACNA, PCA , Missouri & Wisconsin Synod Lutherans are all serious about their faith. I say this for YOUR benefit, not for God’s. God , while he welcomes and loves you, doesn’t need you. The Churches would benefit from your Intelligence, Integrity and Knowledge — but they don’t really need you either. The fringe benefits from accepting Christ and having faith in him are OUTSTANDING. If you are even a little bit curious, go to a ACNA, PCA or a Missouri or Wisconsin Synod Lutheran Church. Wouldn’t hurt to at least investigate.
There are a lot of faithful Christians in other denominations, but these are denominations that support faithful Christians.
Best Regards,
E. Kent
Thank you for your gracious invitation. I certainly appreciate the spirit (uh so to speak) in which it is proffered.
Not a Catholic, nor indeed a Christian, but I have thought the Church added value to secular society precisely because its perspectives were so different from the main line…sort of like the way that rate control in a servo system exerts a contrary force and prevents overshoot. That value seems to be pretty much lost with the current Pope.
I like it. I know that this is sacrilege to many, but I do not care to hear economics from a person who cannot explain the working of a carburetor.
Thanks for the support BDB. I have been reestablishing my own space within the Catholic Church, after more than a few years living without, and the issues with bad priests, and particularly this bad pope have been discussion points with my local parish members.
In every organization, yada yada. good apple, rotten apple. He is indeed rotten.
My friends reinforce that he is not “The Church”. The parishioners, the local clergy and laity are the church. I’ll go with that.
We are told to pray for his Grace, wisdom and Holy Guidance. I am with you in my hope (prayer) that he somehow leaves his post sooner than later.
I’m not Catholic but isn’t the Pope supposed to be the Rock of the Church?
Thank you, BDB. Decades ago a Catholic friend remarked to me, “there’s a reason there has never been a Jesuit pope.” It seems he was prescient. Whether or not this pope “is the church,” he is certainly doing terrible damage to the institution, and to Christianity as a whole, as many completely outside Christianity see him as a representative of us all – and he is certainly not that. While I don’t know the statistics, there has been an exodus from the Catholic church as a result.
My LCMS congregation in California was a block away from the largest Catholic church in town. We have gained several members who decided that they could no longer accept the direction that their church was heading. We have provided a home for refugees from several other nearby denominations that have abandoned the “faith of our fathers” – particularly UPC, UMC & Episcopal.
We are certainly at war now, and at its base, it is spiritual warfare. Seeing Western civilization crumbling before our eyes, it gets me down. A close friend, a Southern Baptist, has often lifted my spirits reminding me, “we know who wins in the end.”
Not long ago, Jordan Peterson said that even if you don’t accept Christianity, you should live as if you did, if you want a good life and a healthy culture.
Everyone should consider “Pascal’s wager.” If at the end of my life it turns out that there is no God, I have lost nothing. Instead I’ve had a joyful, rewarding life. If, on the other hand I reject God, and it turns out that I was wrong, then I face an eternity of pain and suffering.
There’s a problem w/Pascal’s wager: there are a lot of religions other than Christianity, and not all of them accept that you will be just fine as long as you believe in God in some form.
I have serious problems with it, but that’s for another time. Meanwhile, I’m just grateful for intelligent conversation!
As someone who views the world through a Catholic lens there is a lot to think about in this post. I’ll read it again in the morning. I will say that this post would have been written in Turkish if not for the Catholics that confronted the Turks in the battle for Malta, Lepanto, and the Winged Hussars of Catholic Poland breaking the Turkish siege of Vienna as the Prottie monarchs sat on their hands. :)
I don’t like this Pope, but the Church has survived for two thousand years despite occasionally having a bad pope from time to time. That it has survived that long is an indication to me of its divine nature, just as its failings are indications of its human members.
Catholics like me can simply vote with my feet (go to a parish that is sound) and my pocketbook. I don’t give to any cause that is connected to this pope. For example, there’s an annual charity appeal called Peter’s Pence, which I used to give to, but since this pope doesn’t like American Catholics (I don’t think he understands us), I don’t give to that anymore.
Pope Francis and his ilk are the last gasp of a of loosey-goosey, watered-down Catholicism. Its adherents are old – Pope Francis is old – and they’re dying off (though not soon enough for me…). The younger priests coming up are far more orthodox and conservative than those in Pope Francis’s age group. So, this too shall pass. I take comfort from that.
The current Pope strikes me as a “nice” Marxist. His idea of the political right is “bad” socialist authoritarians like Peron, or Pinochet. He prefers “good” socialist authoritarians like Castro and Chavez.
I can hear the excuses already, “Sure, there were excesses, but at least they weren’t the wrong sort of tin-pot dictators. Castro and Chavez really cared about the people, because meaning well makes all the human misery okay. The moral purification of the revolution is it’s own justification.”
What an utter disaster for Catholicism.
Imagine if Christendom had held Constantinople. There’s plenty of hand-sitting to go around.
They could have, but the French Normans that were doing the fighting found out the Byzantines were negotiating with Moslems as they were doing the fighting and dying. The Normans decided they would sack Constantinople.
Well, let’s don’t throw stones. I have a sack full too.
I’m putting off for several months now a post on the proof of Jesus Christ being God’s Messiah. It beats Pascal by miles.
Yes, but this one seems to rank really low on the Mohses hardness scale.
If the Hindus or Buddhists are right, you’ll get another chance to get it right in your next life.
aka Pascal’s Hedged Bet.
In the book linked below WFB, Jr. wrote about his faith, those whom he knew who had lost their faith, and many other matters about his life as a Catholic. In one section, IIRC, he mentioned some popes who were pretty contemptible people. On in particular was said to have fathered a legion of bastards and was a drunkard as well. Not being a theologian or scholar, I can’t verify the claim, but Buckley said that pope had promulgated no theological errors and regardless of his individual conduct had kept the traditions and teachings of the Church in place.
Hippy Frank is pretty well-known for stupid stunts such as blessing a pagan Pachamama statue, but has he in his teachings crossed the line of changing or advocating change to Church dogma?
Nearer, My God: An Autobiography… by Buckley Jr., William F. (amazon.com)
No, he hasn’t.
He’s really not a Marxist. In his younger days he alienated the Jesuit leadership in Argentina with his opposition to Liberation Theology, that’s what brought him to the attention of Pope John Paul II who promoted him. His politics are mostly in line with Christian democracy, which is popular in Europe and South America but doesn’t fit into the standard left/right spectrum of American politics, it combines social conservatism with a generous welfare state.
This is better known by the less flattering title of Christian Socialism, which some here have assured me does not exist. Even you seem to be going to some trouble to avoid using the word. “Generous welfare state?” In what grouping of conservatives will that ever fly? Not this one.
I should think that having the communists wear your religioun as a skinsuit would make the combination less appealing, not more.
I do not care one whit who is a Christian. I do care who is a communist and who makes excuses for communists.
I have a problem with Pascal’s wager: I don’t think God will buy it or be fooled. If you believe, believe. If you don’t , don’t. Faith makes sense to me. So does Atheism or Agnosticism. The squishy middle makes no sense to me at all.
An Englishwoman summed it up pretty well when she said, “If God would condemn me to Hell eternally because I can’t believe in Him, that’s unfortunate. But then, I wouldn’t care to spend eternity in the company of a [redacted] anyway.”
Christian Socialism does exist, it’s a distinct movement, not just another name for Christian Democracy though there are certainly similarities between them.
There are also key differences between democratic socialism and communism, though you seem to be using those terms interchangeably as well.
He’s not a conservative. As I said, Christian democracy does not fit on the American political spectrum, you could call it “socially conservative, fiscally liberal.” An old-school conservative Democrat from the 1950’s might be a rough approximation.
That said, if you look at actual voting records, most Republican voters don’t seem to want cuts to Social Security or Medicare, our two most generous welfare programs.
Social Security is not a welfare program.
FDR would smile to hear you say that.
The government took money from me for all of my working life. Not just income taxes, but money to pay for SS. I never heard of a “welfare” program where one had to pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to participate.