The Case for Trump

 

trumpFrom a friend, explaining in an email this morning why he intends to vote for Trump, not Hillary:

In our degraded empire, following upon the Republic, Caesar is preferable to the Vandals.

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  1. Luke Thatcher
    Luke
    @Luke

    Agreed.

    • #1
  2. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    True enough, but the Vandals will eventually come regardless. There’s just some here that are hoping they accelerate their schedule.

    • #2
  3. Dad Dog Member
    Dad Dog
    @DadDog

    Disagree.

    This is a choice between Nero and Caligula, between shooting myself in the left temple or the right.

    • #3
  4. Larry Koler Inactive
    Larry Koler
    @LarryKoler

    Yes exactly. The left is anti-American. Trump is not. That’s sufficient to know what to do.

    • #4
  5. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Dad Dog:Disagree.

    This is a choice between Nero and Caligula.

    Yup.

    • #5
  6. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.

    • #6
  7. Dad Dog Member
    Dad Dog
    @DadDog

    Frank Soto: for whom we are not responsible

    Bingo.

    • #7
  8. Richard Fulmer Inactive
    Richard Fulmer
    @RichardFulmer

    Wait, you mean Trump isn’t a Vandal?

    • #8
  9. Inwar Resolution Inactive
    Inwar Resolution
    @InwarResolution

    That’s it?

    I think that this is the most interesting debate, because reasonable, intelligent people can disagree about the lesser of these two evils.  I can respect either position, and I think that good arguments can be made for both sides.  I’ve yet to hear one that I found compelling, and Caesar/Vandals doesn’t have much to it.

    I’ll open the bidding with: SCOTUS – Hillary would surely wreck it, and who knows what Trump would do.  Point to those against Hillary.

    • #9
  10. Tom Riehl Member
    Tom Riehl
    @

    Larry Koler:Yes exactly. The left is anti-American. Trump is not. That’s sufficient to know what to do.

    Perfect!  In a nutshell!

    • #10
  11. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @WBob

    Isn’t it amazing that we actually have to sit around debating whether it’s wise to choose the lesser of two evils?

    • #11
  12. Dad Dog Member
    Dad Dog
    @DadDog

    Bob W:Isn’t it amazing that we actually have to sit around debating whether it’s wise to choose the lesser of two evils?

    Why do we have to limit our choice to these two evils?

    • #12
  13. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Bob W:Isn’t it amazing that we actually have to sit around debating whether it’s wise to choose the lesser of two evils?

    You’d have to start by convincing us that he is actually the lesser of the two.  Utterly unconvinced of this.

    • #13
  14. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    The implications in that statement are ridiculous.  (1) Trump is no dictator, nor can he be with our constitution.  (2) We don’t have an empire nor control anything outside our nation, which is governed by Congress.  (3) There are no Vandals at the gate, but I take that implication to be merely metaphor.

    I don’t care for Trump, especially his uncouth manner, but he is an infinitely better choice than Hillary.  I’m glad your friend, no matter how he reached his conclusions, is making the best choice.

    • #14
  15. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Dad Dog:

    Bob W:Isn’t it amazing that we actually have to sit around debating whether it’s wise to choose the lesser of two evils?

    Why do we have to limit our choice to these two evils?

    And what if they are roughly comparable evils?

    • #15
  16. Marion Evans Inactive
    Marion Evans
    @MarionEvans

    Trump is not Caesar. He is Caesar’s Palace.

    • #16
  17. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    Count me as #ProbablyNotTrump

    I’m not ruling it out, but it’s highly unlikely.   In the past, I’ve had to talk my libertarian husband out of voting libertarian and into voting for the republican candidate.   This year, I can’t even convince myself.

    If its close, I’ll sit down an consider it carefully.   But if he’s likely to lose or win, I’d rather not have the smell of it lingering on me.

    • #17
  18. Casey Inactive
    Casey
    @Casey

    Larry Koler:Yes exactly. The left is anti-American. Trump is not. That’s sufficient to know what to do.

    Spend the time I usually spend voting watching a Vine?

    • #18
  19. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    I just went on a job with a Trump supporter, and he has swayed me. I can vote for the man but only so he will be inflicted on his supporters.

    • #19
  20. Dad Dog Member
    Dad Dog
    @DadDog

    The King Prawn: only so he will be inflicted on his supporters

    I’m already planning on printing a bunch of bumper stickers:

    “Don’t blame me, I didn’t vote for Trump.”

    • #20
  21. dukenaltum Inactive
    dukenaltum
    @dukenaltum

    The historical allusion doesn’t work.  Caesar and the Vandals were five hundred years apart.  Julius Caesar’s death at the hands of patriotic republican romans produced a Civil War that lasted for 18 years.

    Caesar was an accomplished General and Civic Leader not a drug dealing whoremonger’s grandson.

    Historical allusions are more interesting when they are accurate and appropriate.

    • #21
  22. Mountain Mike Inactive
    Mountain Mike
    @MichaelFarrow

    Lily Bart:Count me as #ProbablyNotTrump

    I’m not ruling it out, but it’s highly unlikely. In the past, I’ve had to talk my libertarian husband out of voting libertarian and into voting for the republican candidate. This year, I can’t even convince myself.

    If its close, I’ll sit down an consider it carefully. But if he’s likely to lose or win, I’d rather not have the smell of it lingering on me.

    I am fortunate – I live and vote in California.  Liberal Democrats occupy every elective office from County Supervisor up.  My vote has been wasted since I moved to Sonoma County.  I will have no guilt in writing in Cruz.

    • #22
  23. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Peter Robinson:
    From a friend, explaining in an email this morning why he intends to vote for Trump, not Hillary:

    In our degraded empire, following upon the Republic, Caesar is preferable to the Vandals.

    What a pithy yet stupid comment. Why is Trump Caesar and Hillary the Vandals? What he should say is I just hate Hillary more for some irrational reason so I will vote for Trump. My heart is very big and I can hate both equally.

    But really what if we get Hillary? We will be under the rule of a technocratic Democrat from New York. So we will have to endure the policies of some leftist think tank. If Trump wins we will be under the rule of a man without any principles, who will run us like any other showboating corrupt big city Democrat. One will be a carefully planned ruin the other will be a wild and crazy binge to the bottom. Trump will be more entertaining, but ultimately he will leave us in the same ruined state.

    So I ask. If Nero will burn down Rome and the Vandals will burn down Rome, why should we be more pleased with the crazed lunatic over the organized army? Rather it seems to me we should leave the city and go hide out on a mountain top somewhere with St. Benedict.

    • #23
  24. Dick from Brooklyn Thatcher
    Dick from Brooklyn
    @DickfromBrooklyn

    Lily Bart:Count me as #ProbablyNotTrump

    I’m not ruling it out, but it’s highly unlikely. In the past, I’ve had to talk my libertarian husband out of voting libertarian and into voting for the republican candidate. This year, I can’t even convince myself.

    If its close, I’ll sit down an consider it carefully. But if he’s likely to lose or win, I’d rather not have the smell of it lingering on me.

    The smell clashes with the gin, right? :)

    • #24
  25. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    Dad Dog:This is a choice between Nero and Caligula…

    Why not a choice between Caesar and Pompey?

    • #25
  26. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    Dick from Brooklyn:

    Lily Bart:Count me as #ProbablyNotTrump

    I’m not ruling it out, but it’s highly unlikely. In the past, I’ve had to talk my libertarian husband out of voting libertarian and into voting for the republican candidate. This year, I can’t even convince myself.

    If its close, I’ll sit down an consider it carefully. But if he’s likely to lose or win, I’d rather not have the smell of it lingering on me.

    The smell clashes with the gin, right? :)

    No, the gin won’t wash it away.

    • #26
  27. Austin Murrey Inactive
    Austin Murrey
    @AustinMurrey

    dukenaltum: Julius Caesar’s death at the hands of patriotic republican romans produced a Civil War that lasted for 18 years.

    Arguable – I’d say they were less patriotic than my Latin primer (which followed Quintus as a devotee of Brutus at one point) likes to make out.

    The Roman Republic seems to me to have clung to form after it was shattered by Marius and Sulla. Caesar merely tried to staunch the damage caused by third-rate politicians in the Roman elections. In Ancient Rome I’d have been pro-Caesar, certainly as opposed to Crassus or Pompey “the Great”.

    Regardless we knew this would happen – all those principled conservative leaders, thinkers and voters are already lining up behind the anointed leader to plunge once more off the cliff like the lemmings of legend.

    It happened in ’92, ’96, ’00 (yes, I know), ’08 and ’12. Why would ’16 be any different?

    • #27
  28. Dad Dog Member
    Dad Dog
    @DadDog

    “Why not a choice between Caesar and Pompey?”

    Don’t see a Pompey in this election.

    • #28
  29. Marion Evans Inactive
    Marion Evans
    @MarionEvans

    You know what this is? It is the frog on the hot plate. It will stay on the plate and heat to death because it gets used to it gradually. I was neverTrump from day one and I will always be. Don’t be swayed by expedient arguments and irrelevant aphorisms. You don’t have to vote for Hillary either. Just stay home.

    • #29
  30. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Misthiocracy: Why not a choice between Caesar and Pompey?

    I’d choose Crassus for Trump, and not just because the name fits.

    • #30
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