The ABC Republican Debate

 

I’m sure all of you have been wondering, “Where is the review of the Republican debate by Valiuth? Is he okay? What could possibly keep him from putting it up in a timely manner?” Well, dread not, my Ricochet compatriots, I am indeed fine, but alas I was busy living life rather than listening to our candidates square off before the New Hampshire primary.

In previous reviews, I’ve made it a point to write them without listening to official punditry first so as to keep my impressions clear of their influence. This time, though, I had to listen to the talking heads first. I’ll try to give you my own independent impressions.

Overall, this debate felt more serious and focused than some of the previous ones, I think in large part due to Trump being far more toned down and cogent than usual. I guess by this point everyone is getting pretty good at these things. The other thing I noticed is that the governors had all stepped up their games. I guess they have to; this is their last chance to be relevant. Did it work? I don’t know. Certainly the pundit class is all agasp at Marco Rubio’s Obama comments and his exchange with Christie. If any of the governors broke out, it might be him, but if I’m not mistaken, Christie is faring the worst among the governors. Also, I loved all the questions that Mary Katharine Ham asked. Good job to ABC for using her.

Let us take this in the usual manner, by candidate.

Ted Cruz: Was he even there? Normally, Cruz makes more of an impression on me in these debates. But clearly he was keeping a low profile. I guess when all your opponents are busy fighting each other, no sense drawing attention to yourself. He pressed his anti-Washington case by pointing out his opposition to ethanol subsidies, said waterboarding wasn’t torture, but we shouldn’t do it, and other than that didn’t make much of an impression. I guess he’s keeping his powder dry for South Carolina. One addendum: His story about his half-sister is tragic, but Cruz still can’t seem to deliver such stories with any theatrical grace. He relayed the facts, but his ability to establish an emotional connection with his audience seemed limited. He isn’t a natural storyteller.

Ben Carson: The good doctor was in a lively mood, exuding decency and an even temper. I like the guy a lot, and I think he is getting much better at these debates. I don’t know what he expects, though, at this point. I don’t see him making a daring comeback. I guess, given the behavior of the Cruz campaign staff in Iowa, Ben can’t drop out now, but how much longer can he keep this going? If he stays in, who does he hurt? Cruz? Maybe now it’s personal for him, though I can’t imagine it will stay that way. I hope he makes a graceful exit.

Jeb!: I believe the phrase is “A day late, and a dollar short.” He finally managed to conjure up a fight with Trump that he kind of won on the topic of eminent domain. But, to quote a soon-to-be convict, “What difference at this point does it make?” Jeb! has finally stopped running from his last name, and started showing some grit, but it’s all too late. He has too much money and pride to go down, but like a wounded water buffalo, he keeps moving, not realizing he’s already dead. This debate may be his high point in this election. If it had been where he started rather than where he’s ending, people might not be talking about the end of the Bush line (which I’m sure is premature because I’m sure there is some younger Bush in office, somewhere). One thing about his performance tonight struck me as off-putting, his answer on abortion. His use of the words “Republican sweet-spot” to describe his stance on abortion in the events of the endangerment of the mother’s life, incest, and rape, filled me with revulsion. Nothing could sound more insincere on the issue. You can have those views, but to peddle them as the most advantageous political position is to betray, I think, a total lack of engagement with the issue.

John Kasich: Mr. Bipartisanship was working hard tonight to get Democratic votes. Am I mistaken to remember him saying he should have run as a Democrat? Clearly, he and Christie have reached some accord, because they were almost fawning over each other at one point. Kasich played the compromising moderate to a tee, making a virtue of his willingness to beg and plead to get deals done. If you think we need to strike a new course for this nation, fight for the America we believe in, stand up to foreign threats, and combat Democratic overreach, I can’t see how you could pick Kasich. If I want my post office to run at 110 percent efficiency, I guess I’ll hire him.

Chris Christie: If he and Kasich elope, I will not be surprised. The two seemed in cahoots to me. Kasich seemed focused on moderation, and Christie was intent on attacking Rubio. I guess his last act in this election will be to try to take out Rubio, but to what avail? Christie missed his golden chance. He is the Republican governor of a Democratic state, too moderate and compromised for the base by those associations, too extreme for his own state because of his party affiliation. He will stop being governor and fade into obscurity. Of all the candidates on stage, he sounded most desperate. His voice was always in the background trying to interject and comment, begging, pleading for one more moment in the sun. He may have hobbled Rubio with his “canned speech” attack, but he did not help himself. I guess he is hopping for a job in a Jeb! or a Kasich administration.

Donald Trump: Donald skipped the last debate, and as Fox News so gracelessly reminded us during the vote counting in Iowa, it may have cost him that election. Probably not, given the Cruz ground game, but tonight I think we saw a different Trump. Normally, in every debate in which Trump has participates, he manages to say something beyond the pale, either in rudeness or sheer ignorance. In this debate, no such moments struck me. Perhaps I’ve lowered my standards? Trump seems to be dialing it back down to ten. Even on eminent domain, where Jeb! finally got his best hit in against Trump, Trump was able to actually make a good point about Keystone XL. His impressive moment was linking the Democrats to Hillary’s e-mail woes. Asked how he would run against the Avatar of all Women, he very cleverly said that he did not think she would be the the nominee because of her legal troubles. But, if the Democrats protected her and she was the nominee he would beat her. Did you see what he did there? All the Republicans should take notes. If Hillary is not indicted it is because her party is protecting her. What a great smear! Probably true, too.

Marco Rubio: Well, we come to it at last. The man of the night whose words will echo for all time like a water bottle. Full disclaimer: I like Rubio the best. I expected, given the commentary, to hear something terrible. My impression is that it wasn’t that bad. He was trying to make a very good point about the importance of the ideology driving Obama, which he managed to do later in the debate quite well. His repetition in that moment was ham-handed, but his subsequent answers drowned it all out. Considering that pundits hardly ever focus on substance, I guess we’ll keep hearing about this.

That one comment aside, Rubio delivered the performance we’ve all come to expect from him. But his best moment was his answer on abortion. Not only did he make his position and motivations clear, he drew attention to the extremity and duplicity of the Democrats and the media. If abortion were my only issue, I would go for Rubio. If you want to know why he isn’t establishment, that right there was perhaps the best proof. I am also willing to bet it is why Rick Santorum supports him. Jeb! tries to find the sweet-spot, Rubio contemplates the matter based on a defined ideology and goes with the conclusions he draws from that.

Do we know how many more of these debates there will be? I assume another before South Carolina, and then one before Florida and Nevada, and then 500 more. What did you guys think of this debate? Did Trump seem more sober to you? Do you think the governors did enough to stay in the race? Was Rubio really hurt? Did anyone think Carly would have added anything to the debate?

Let me know.

Published in Elections, General
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  1. Craig Inactive
    Craig
    @Craig

    I was surprised by the way it was handled by ABC. Perhaps the RNC had enough control avoiding the CNBC experience on a major network. When the pre coverage had their Left Pundits (George Stephanopoulos  & *Donna Brazile) trying to explain the Republican candidates I had worry.

     

    *Full Disclosure Donna Brazile once blocked me on Twitter for making a factual based  argument.  

    • #1
  2. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    I’m sure all of you were wondering last night “Where is the review of the Republican debate by Valiuth? Is he okay? 

    Hahahaha! Very entertaining.

    • #2
  3. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Craig:I was surprised by the way it was handled by ABC. Perhaps the RNC had enough control avoiding the CNBC experience on a major network. When the pre coverage had their Left Pundits trying to explain the Republican candidates I had worry.

    … and the post-debate coverage was even more juvenile. They seemed to think it was a sporting event. They concluded that the “take-down” of Rubio was more important than the substance of what the candidates debated.

    • #3
  4. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Well done again, V.

    • #4
  5. Craig Inactive
    Craig
    @Craig

    Agreed Rico, each time the Republicans debate on a major network they’re asking their enemies to write a letter of recommendation with a poison pen.

    • #5
  6. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Your report, Valiuth, was well worth waiting for. Thank you.

    • #6
  7. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Rico do you think any Republicans even bother to listen to ABC commentators? Still by doing this I think they may drive expectations down, so if Rubio again over performs his polls he will be in a good spot.

    • #7
  8. BThompson Inactive
    BThompson
    @BThompson

    Very nicely put, V. I agree with every word. All the ado about Rubio has been a bit much to swallow. I expected ABC and the other MSM outlets to turn the exchange into a melodrama, it’s been quite disappointing to see the conservative media be just as bad, if not worse. I can’t tell if all the hyperventilating by the right wing pundits and writers is a function of a preference for Cruz, or they hold Rubio to a much higher debate standard than other candidates because of his eloquence so this came as a major shock, or they just want to ride a sensational narrative for the page views, retweets, and podcast downloads. Perhaps it’s a bit of all three, whatever it is, it’s been enough to make my eyes roll all day.

    • #8
  9. BThompson Inactive
    BThompson
    @BThompson

    Valiuth:Rico do you think any Republicans even bother to listen to ABC commentators? Still by doing this I think they may drive expectations down, so if Rubio again over performs his polls he will be in a good spot.

    If only it were just ABC. The right wing media has been just as bad if not worse in their overreaction and fixation on that one exchange.

    • #9
  10. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    BThompson:

    Valiuth:Rico do you think any Republicans even bother to listen to ABC commentators? Still by doing this I think they may drive expectations down, so if Rubio again over performs his polls he will be in a good spot.

    If only it were just ABC. The right wing media has been just as bad if not worse in their overreaction and fixation on that one exchange.

    ditto

    • #10
  11. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Good questions BThompson. I think for the MSM they need to star building a narrative with which to trash Rubio in case he wins the nomination. They have ones for Cruz and Trump already. I think in their hearts they do fear him, most of all as a candidate, though I think they fear Cruz most as a person.

    Now I haven’t heard much of talk about this from the Conservative Media Establishment (ie. talk radio). But, then again they aren’t active on weekend. I guess come Monday we shall see what they do. Though none of them strike me as Christie fans. If you back Christie in this exchange I don’t know how you support Cruz. Christie’s point having been that Rubio uses caned answers to mask lack of experience and accomplishments. What more has Cruz to offer? He has bee a senator for even less time than Rubio. But, do they really think Rubio’s point that Obama’s ideology is the problem is wrong? It seems to me they are some of the prime advocates of the notion that Obama is more wicked than stupid. Will these talk show hosts have any integrity? Frankly given their fawning over Trump I would not count on it.

    I’m just hopping that the voters of New Hampshire are better than the media they listen to.

    • #11
  12. BThompson Inactive
    BThompson
    @BThompson

    I’m speaking more of writers like John Podhoretz, Rich Lowry, and Mona Charen. Also, the Weekly Standard and NRO have really been playing this up and acting like Rubio committed Hari Kari on stage during the debate. The conservative twittersphere last night was one series of virtual gasps and clutched pearls after another. The GLoP recap right after the debate couldn’t talk about anything else but hiw disastrous Rubios performance was. I was pretty amazed by it all.

    • #12
  13. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    I missed the GLoP, and I don’t read the NRO except the odd article now and then. Stopped checking the site many years ago. Given that Mona is a Rubio fan, I assume this is a case of hyper fandom over reaction. Nothing worse than seeing those you like fail you in someway.

    • #13
  14. rico Inactive
    rico
    @rico

    Valiuth:Rico do you think any Republicans even bother to listen to ABC commentators? Still by doing this I think they may drive expectations down, so if Rubio again over performs his polls he will be in a good spot.

    I listen to the “analysts” because I like knowing what kind of story they are spinning. Most of them don’t have any particular insight so they latch on to whatever is blowing in the wind. And yes, now that they’ve set up their new Rubio narrative they’ll be SHOCKED if he performs better than the latest poll. Then they’ll have to think up a new story to explain why he outperformed all three governors.

    • #14
  15. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring
    @WillowSpring

    Did anyone else see the scene just before the debate of McCain and Graham as the old geezers in the theater (from the Muppets) putting down the debate since they weren’t in it?  In 10 seconds or so, ABC managed to demean the whole debate – along with McCain and Graham.

    • #15
  16. Mike Silver Inactive
    Mike Silver
    @Mikescapes

    Good critique, except:

    For Rubio to allow Christie to slice him up that way was very disheartening. He was flustered and observably sweating (he often does) while doubling up on the canned responses. Major setback that plays into the argument  he’s not ready to lead. How could he not be prepared for that attack? Valiuth is way too soft on this one.

    Correct, Christie is running for AG. My guess is the deal would be with Trump, even more so than Jeb and Kasich. B/t/w, he’d be a good one judging from the cross exam of Rubio.

    • #16
  17. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    Hopefully his momentum coming out of Iowa and his time spent in the state over the last week will have more impact than the one debate moment. Rubio certainly demonstrated the danger to being too on message though. I’ve seen him in Q&A do much better off script, especially on foreign policy. He does study and actually knows what he’s talking about. The whole thing looked more like stage fright to me than lack of knowledge. He had a superb point that he should have driven home more forcefully, but he whiffed on it. I bet in another similar scenario he won’t make the same mistake again.

    • #17
  18. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Mike Silver:Good critique, except:

    For Rubio to allow Christie to slice him up that way was very disheartening. He was flustered and observably sweating (he often does) while doubling up on the canned responses. Major setback that plays into the argument he’s not ready to lead. How could he not be prepared for that attack? Valiuth is way too soft on this one.

    Correct, Christie is running for AG. My guess is the deal would be with Trump, even more so than Jeb and Kasich. B/t/w, he’d be a good one judging from the cross exam of Rubio.

    Fair enough, maybe I am too soft. But then again I was rather more critical of him in the last debate. I went into it expecting the flub to be way worse, or have for it to have thrown him off for the rest of the debate. But, he moved on just fine in his subsequent answers. I think this is like the water bottle fiasco. Looks worse than it really is.

    • #18
  19. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    WillowSpring:Did anyone else see the scene just before the debate of McCain and Graham as the old geezers in the theater (from the Muppets) putting down the debate since they weren’t in it? In 10 seconds or so, ABC managed to demean the whole debate – along with McCain and Graham.

    No, was this broadcast or a tweet or something?

    • #19
  20. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring
    @WillowSpring

    WC

    It was on the broadcast just before the start.  I haven’t seen any reference to it since then.

    • #20
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