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Welcome to the Harvard Lunch Club Political Podcast for March 21, 2017, it’s the Victor Davis Hanson Interview edition of the show.

This week we have (a propos of the title of the podcast, i.e. The Victor Davis Hanson Interview edition) Victor Davis Hanson from Stanford and the Hoover Institution and National Review and many other esteemed places as our guest. We talk about North Korea and the strategy of Trump tweets and the media trying to somehow catch up. And then we get into the real red meat: what gives with the #NeverTrumpers? (remember them?). This discussion is worth downloading the podcast all by itself.

Then, the main stream media continues to look like Wily Coyote chasing the Road Runner, or Porky Pig trying to best Bugs Bunny – just beside themselves with ire. They are going to *some* *day* nail that sucker. Some day Trump will apologize. Some day he will get his comeuppance! George Stephanopoulos cannot believe that Trump accused the former President, the sainted Obama, of a felony!!! Doesn’t matter that the Trump was – as is evident to anyone paying attention – quoting the New York Times headline in his tweet about wire tapping. We’ve got seven plus more years of this. Will they continue screeching like this all that time?

We will have our shower thoughts as usual and this week’s hidden gem is Patti Smyth’s cover of the Tom Waits song, Downtown Train, released thirty years ago.

A Propos of our shower thoughts, there is this (Venn’s pi compass):

And, want to know where you birthday first appears in pi? (you know you do) Check out the pi finder here.

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Members have made 45 comments.

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  1. Profile photo of Quake Voter Thatcher

    TRIGGER WARNING: NeverTrumpers should skip the four minutes following the 20 minute mark unless you can bear the brilliant, laconic dissection of your disdain by Dr. Hanson. What a sad turn of events that Andrew Breitbart’s “politics is downstream of culture” was proved by the revolt of Acela conservatives.

    Mike’s “They have the same housekeepers” was the perfect punctuation.

    Astonishing that over the past ten days real entitlement reform was begun, deep budget cuts were proposed, CAFE standards shelved, North Korea finally confronted, climate change spending zeroed out, and Neil Gorsuch formally presented for confirmation and the NeverTrump rump still sneers.

    Another great hour of conservative bonhomie.

    • #1
    • March 20, 2017 at 8:06 pm
    • Like11 likes
  2. Profile photo of Michael Stopa Podcaster

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    TRIGGER WARNING: NeverTrumpers should skip the four minutes following the 20 minute mark unless you can bear the brilliant, laconic dissection of your disdain by Dr. Hanson. What a sad turn of events that Andrew Breitbart’s “politics is downstream of culture” was proved by the revolt of Acela conservatives.

    Mike’s “They have the same housekeepers” was the perfect punctuation.

    Astonishing that over the past ten days real entitlement reform was begun, deep budget cuts were proposed, CAFE standards shelved, North Korea finally confronted, climate change spending zeroed out, and Neil Gorsuch formally presented for confirmation and the NeverTrump rump still sneers.

    Another great hour of conservative bonhomie.

    Thanks Quake! Easy to make a good podcast with VDH as your guest.

    • #2
    • March 20, 2017 at 8:30 pm
    • Like5 likes
  3. Profile photo of outlaws6688 Coolidge

    Great Podcast! Two great hosts and VDH is always a great guest.

    • #3
    • March 21, 2017 at 3:11 am
    • Like4 likes
  4. Profile photo of thelonious Member

    Quake Voter (View Comment):

    Astonishing that over the past ten days real entitlement reform was begun, deep budget cuts were proposed, CAFE standards shelved, North Korea finally confronted, climate change spending zeroed out, and Neil Gorsuch formally presented for confirmation and the NeverTrump rump still sneers.

    Another great hour of conservative bonhomie.

    He’s not touching Social Security or Medicare. How is that real entitlement reform?

    • #4
    • March 21, 2017 at 5:15 am
    • Like1 like
  5. Profile photo of Beach Baby Member

    Thank you, Victor Davis Hanson, for your right-on insights. There aren’t many podcasts I still listen to on Ricochet because of this pervasive I-hope-Trump-fails undertone. Perhaps those who demean President Trump and consider him unworthy of the office should humble themselves and be grateful that God has been merciful to us by the defeat of Hillary Clinton.

    • #5
    • March 21, 2017 at 5:18 am
    • Like10 likes
  6. Profile photo of Michael Stopa Podcaster

    outlaws6688 (View Comment):
    Great Podcast! Two great hosts and VDH is always a great guest.

    Thanks outlaw! Great to hear. (Please give us a review on iTunes 😃)

    • #6
    • March 21, 2017 at 5:41 am
    • Like3 likes
  7. Profile photo of Quake Voter Thatcher

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Quake Voter (View Comment):

    Astonishing that over the past ten days real entitlement reform was begun, deep budget cuts were proposed, CAFE standards shelved, North Korea finally confronted, climate change spending zeroed out, and Neil Gorsuch formally presented for confirmation and the NeverTrump rump still sneers.

    Another great hour of conservative bonhomie.

    He’s not touching Social Security or Medicare. How is that real entitlement reform?

    The restructuring and federalizing of Medicaid would be a bigger reform than Reagan or either Bush accomplished.

    Trump seems willing to go beyond the GOP here and re tax cuts.

    But he tweets and wears those ties…

    • #7
    • March 21, 2017 at 5:43 am
    • Like5 likes
  8. Profile photo of thelonious Member

    Quake Voter (View Comment):

    thelonious (View Comment):

    Quake Voter (View Comment):

    Astonishing that over the past ten days real entitlement reform was begun, deep budget cuts were proposed, CAFE standards shelved, North Korea finally confronted, climate change spending zeroed out, and Neil Gorsuch formally presented for confirmation and the NeverTrump rump still sneers.

    Another great hour of conservative bonhomie.

    He’s not touching Social Security or Medicare. How is that real entitlement reform?

    The restructuring and federalizing of Medicaid would be a bigger reform than Reagan or either Bush accomplished.

    Trump seems willing to go beyond the GOP here and re tax cuts.

    But he tweets and wears those ties…

    You gotta admit well done steaks with ketchup is unforgivable.

    • #8
    • March 21, 2017 at 6:19 am
    • Like4 likes
  9. Profile photo of Rightfromthestart Thatcher

    Stephanopolous demanding an apology over and over sounded like a parent whose child has been attacked , where was his demand for an apology to Romney or Palin? Even if Trump is totally wrong what does he expect ? Impeachment ?

    As for VDH’s NR and Richochet colleagues, I used to listen to Mona and Jay regularly even though we come from different worlds but around October I had a reverse Sally Field moment when I realized ‘ they dislike me, they really ,really dislike me’

    Dittos on ‘Air Disasters’ , I love the investigations.

    • #9
    • March 21, 2017 at 7:30 am
    • Like8 likes
  10. Profile photo of Columbo Member

    Dr. Victor Davis Hanson!

    Make Ricochet Great Again!

    • #10
    • March 21, 2017 at 7:38 am
    • Like14 likes
  11. Profile photo of ClosetSubversive Member

    Editor Note:

    Please use respectful language when describing follow members.

    I don’t know why the [redacted] can’t get past the Never-Trumpers, but it appears that they never will. Trump won. Never-Trump is effectively dead or as the kids say “not a thing” anymore. I have heard multitudes of the former Never-Trumpers say that they were wrong about the election. Today, I hear them praising Trump when he deserves praise (fantastic cabinet and superior SCOTUS pick) and criticizing him when he deserves criticism. I don’t understand this bitterness and the need to continually demand that they (the former Never-Trumpers) prostrate themselves. I hope they never do because I’m positive that even that wouldn’t be enough. I’ve always liked VDH and enjoy listening to him, but his vindictiveness over – of all things Donald J. Trump – diminishes him. Magnanimity is the mark of a man confident in himself and his opinions. Only the insecure continually demand validation from others. I’m embarrassed for all of you.

    Other than that, great podcast.

    • #11
    • March 21, 2017 at 11:18 am
    • Like2 likes
  12. Profile photo of Columbo Member

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    I don’t know why the [redacted] can’t get past the Never-Trumpers, but it appears that they never will. Trump won. Never-Trump is effectively dead or as the kids say “not a thing” anymore. I have heard multitudes of the former Never-Trumpers say that they were wrong about the election. Today, I hear them praising Trump when he deserves praise (fantastic cabinet and superior SCOTUS pick) and criticizing him when he deserves criticism. I don’t understand this bitterness and the need to continually demand that they (the former Never-Trumpers) prostrate themselves. I hope they never do because I’m positive that even that wouldn’t be enough. I’ve always liked VDH and enjoy listening to him, but his vindictiveness over – of all things Donald J. Trump – diminishes him. Magnanimity is the mark of a man confident in himself and his opinions. Only the insecure continually demand validation from others. I’m embarrassed for all of you.

    Other than that, great podcast.

    What is a [redacted] pray tell?

    It is laughable to describe VDH as ‘vindictive’ or ‘insecure’. He is confident in himself and his predictions, and history proved him exceptionally accurate. He is likely still facing vindictive and insecure Nevers at NR constantly and Mssrs. Stopa and Feinburg provided him an outlet to push back a tad.

    History has validated the good professor and the rest of the Rabble. We don’t ‘demand’ validation from anyone else.

    • #12
    • March 21, 2017 at 11:50 am
    • Like10 likes
  13. Profile photo of outlaws6688 Coolidge

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    I don’t know why the [redacted] can’t get past the Never-Trumpers, but it appears that they never will. Trump won. Never-Trump is effectively dead or as the kids say “not a thing” anymore. I have heard multitudes of the former Never-Trumpers say that they were wrong about the election. Today, I hear them praising Trump when he deserves praise (fantastic cabinet and superior SCOTUS pick) and criticizing him when he deserves criticism. I don’t understand this bitterness and the need to continually demand that they (the former Never-Trumpers) prostrate themselves. I hope they never do because I’m positive that even that wouldn’t be enough. I’ve always liked VDH and enjoy listening to him, but his vindictiveness over – of all things Donald J. Trump – diminishes him. Magnanimity is the mark of a man confident in himself and his opinions. Only the insecure continually demand validation from others. I’m embarrassed for all of you.

    Other than that, great podcast.

    Goes both ways.

    • #13
    • March 21, 2017 at 11:58 am
    • Like2 likes
  14. Profile photo of ClosetSubversive Member

    Columbo (View Comment):

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    I don’t know why the [redacted] can’t get past the Never-Trumpers, but it appears that they never will. Trump won. Never-Trump is effectively dead or as the kids say “not a thing” anymore. I have heard multitudes of the former Never-Trumpers say that they were wrong about the election. Today, I hear them praising Trump when he deserves praise (fantastic cabinet and superior SCOTUS pick) and criticizing him when he deserves criticism. I don’t understand this bitterness and the need to continually demand that they (the former Never-Trumpers) prostrate themselves. I hope they never do because I’m positive that even that wouldn’t be enough. I’ve always liked VDH and enjoy listening to him, but his vindictiveness over – of all things Donald J. Trump – diminishes him. Magnanimity is the mark of a man confident in himself and his opinions. Only the insecure continually demand validation from others. I’m embarrassed for all of you.

    Other than that, great podcast.

    What is a [redacted] pray tell?

    It is laughable to describe VDH as ‘vindictive’ or ‘insecure’. He is confident in himself and his predictions, and history proved him exceptionally accurate. He is likely still facing vindictive and insecure Nevers at NR constantly and Mssrs. Stopa and Feinburg provided him an outlet to push back a tad.

    History has validated the good professor and the rest of the Rabble. We don’t ‘demand’ validation from anyone else.

    This is at least the 2nd podcast in which I’ve heard VDH complaining about NeverTrumpers. I heard one from the NR cruise right after the election in which he was quite vitriolic. He was actually being interviewed by Charles C.W. Cooke (not a Trump guy) who listened quite patiently and respectfully as VDH basically reamed him and others out for not jumping on the Trump train. It was understandable right after the election and Charlie did not challenge him but let the man say what he wanted to say. For VDH and others to still be banging on about this 4 months later is just puzzling. And yes, he is demanding validation.

    • #14
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:02 pm
    • Like1 like
  15. Profile photo of outlaws6688 Coolidge

    It is laughable to describe VDH as ‘vindictive’ or ‘insecure’. He is confident in himself and his predictions, and history proved him exceptionally accurate. He is likely still facing vindictive and insecure Nevers at NR constantly and Mssrs. Stopa and Feinburg provided him an outlet to push back a tad.

    History has validated the good professor and the rest of the Rabble. We don’t ‘demand’ validation from anyone else.

    This is at least the 2nd podcast in which I’ve heard VDH complaining about NeverTrumpers. I heard one from the NR cruise right after the election in which he was quite vitriolic. He was actually being interviewed by Charles C.W. Cooke (not a Trump guy) who listened quite patiently and respectfully as VDH basically reamed him and others out for not jumping on the Trump train. It was understandable right after the election and Charlie did not challenge him but let the man say what he wanted to say. For VDH and others to still be banging on about this 4 months later is just puzzling. And yes, he is demanding validation.

    Many Nevers have put out ban lists like Amanda Carpenter that want to ban any Conservative that voted for Trump from the movement and many Nevers are just as insufferable on most sites. I applaud VDH for just ranting when I’m sure he has to put up with the arrogance and condescension from Nevers at National Review and everywhere else he works.

    • #15
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:29 pm
    • Like7 likes
  16. Profile photo of ClosetSubversive Member

    Nope, I’m wrong. This is the 3rd podcast I’ve heard him on complaining about the NeverTrumpers. He was on with Jay and Mona on Need to Know. Jay and Mona were very polite to VDH, let him say his piece. This was on Inauguration Day. They had a candid discussion and based on what was said to them and how they could have taken it, I thought Jay and Mona were nice and open and VDH was heard. Do Jay and Mona get any credit for having VDH on, knowing how he feels (as indeed, everyone must). I’m not sure who has been rude or mean to or about VDH but it isn’t Charles CW Cooke, Mona Charen or Jay Nordlinger. So again, why is this being canvassed?

    • #16
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:34 pm
    • Like1 like
  17. Profile photo of outlaws6688 Coolidge

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    Nope, I’m wrong. This is the 3rd podcast I’ve heard him on complaining about the NeverTrumpers. He was on with Jay and Mona on Need to Know. Jay and Mona were very polite to VDH, let him say his piece. This was on Inauguration Day. They had a candid discussion and based on what was said to them and how they could have taken it, I thought Jay and Mona were nice and open and VDH was heard. Do Jay and Mona get any credit for having VDH on, knowing how he feels (as indeed, everyone must). I’m not sure who has been rude or mean to or about VDH but it isn’t Charles CW Cooke, Mona Charen or Jay Nordlinger. So again, why is this being canvassed?

    What they had to be nice for a podcast that would go out to be heard by the public. Maybe they have always been nice to VDH as you claim, but you have zero evidence for that because you have never been in their work environment with them.

    • #17
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:37 pm
    • Like1 like
  18. Profile photo of Columbo Member

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    Nope, I’m wrong. This is the 3rd podcast I’ve heard him on complaining about the NeverTrumpers. He was on with Jay and Mona on Need to Know. Jay and Mona were very polite to VDH, let him say his piece. This was on Inauguration Day. They had a candid discussion and based on what was said to them and how they could have taken it, I thought Jay and Mona were nice and open and VDH was heard. Do Jay and Mona get any credit for having VDH on, knowing how he feels (as indeed, everyone must). I’m not sure who has been rude or mean to or about VDH but it isn’t Charles CW Cooke, Mona Charen or Jay Nordlinger. So again, why is this being canvassed?

    Perhaps you could start a different conversation on this topic, on its own thread?

    Especially since you’ve already made this point here (3 times now in fact). That would be polite to Mssrs. Stopa and Feinburg, would it not?

    • #18
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:39 pm
    • Like1 like
  19. Profile photo of ClosetSubversive Member

    outlaws6688 (View Comment):
    What they had to be nice for a podcast that would go out to be heard by the public. Maybe they have always been nice to VDH as you claim, but you have zero evidence for that because you have never been in their work environment with them.

    They didn’t have to have him on at all. But they did. That, my friend, is called taking the high road. May we all learn from the example of those who, though disagreeing with VDH, have nevertheless included him and have given him a forum to express a point of view with which they disagree. Bravo.

    • #19
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:45 pm
    • Like0 likes
  20. Profile photo of outlaws6688 Coolidge

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):

    outlaws6688 (View Comment):
    What they had to be nice for a podcast that would go out to be heard by the public. Maybe they have always been nice to VDH as you claim, but you have zero evidence for that because you have never been in their work environment with them.

    They didn’t have to have him on at all. But they did. That, my friend, is called taking the high road. May we all learn from the example of those who, though disagreeing with VDH, have nevertheless included him and have given him a forum to express a point of view with which they disagree. Bravo.

    Or they did it for listeners or to show VDH up in the comments. Either way I’m done with this conversation.

    • #20
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:48 pm
    • Like2 likes
  21. Profile photo of Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    As stated previously, we ask members to avoid using denonyms to describe each other, as it tends to get antagonistic. Neutral terms like “Pro-Trump,” “anti-Trump,” and “Trump-skeptic” cause far fewer problems.

    • #21
    • March 21, 2017 at 12:59 pm
    • Like1 like
  22. Profile photo of Jager Member

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    I’m embarrassed for all of you.

    Wow, thanks for the “kind” words.

    I also like [redacted]. I for one am not anyone’s [redacted]. You’re embarrassed for the people you are insulting. How very magnanimous of you.

    • #22
    • March 21, 2017 at 1:01 pm
    • Like9 likes
  23. Profile photo of Quake Voter Thatcher

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    Nope, I’m wrong. This is the 3rd podcast I’ve heard him on complaining about the NeverTrumpers. He was on with Jay and Mona on Need to Know. Jay and Mona were very polite to VDH, let him say his piece. This was on Inauguration Day. They had a candid discussion and based on what was said to them and how they could have taken it, I thought Jay and Mona were nice and open and VDH was heard. Do Jay and Mona get any credit for having VDH on, knowing how he feels (as indeed, everyone must). I’m not sure who has been rude or mean to or about VDH but it isn’t Charles CW Cooke, Mona Charen or Jay Nordlinger. So again, why is this being canvassed?

    ClosetSubversive, try to be at least minimally fair. VDH wasn’t seeking validation or pursuing NT tangents.

    He was responding directly and intelligently to a question.

    There is no need to use insults like [redacted] and no one is asking anyone to prostrate themselves before Lord Trump, though you obviously enjoy making that implication.

    Are many NT somewhat invested in Trump failure? Would a colossal crack-up (with Pence perhaps picking up the pieces) help their wounded amour propre and sense of recent political fecklessness?

    Probably. We all, to some extent, invest in the failure of our opponents. Honestly, don’t we often feel schadenfreude for the failures of friends? VDH wasn’t asked to pursue the emotional dimensions of that investment. If he were, I would expect a very candid answer which mixes grounded examples from his life with penetrating classical allusions.

    The NeverTrumper vs. ReluctantTrumper division is not going away because the division predates Trump. Sure, Trump turned it up to eleven because Trump wakes up at eleven. But remnancy versus relevancy has been a longstanding and very fertile fight on the right for 50 years.

    How are you dealing with the obvious reality that Trump, despite his tenuous connection to philosophical conservativism, has shown himself willing to propose cuts, program eliminations and real-time entitlement reforms that the supposedly more faithful conservatives in Congress pronounce dead on arrival?

    It’s almost as if the phony contingent amongst the conservatives in Congress really don’t want a conservative Trump.

    • #23
    • March 21, 2017 at 1:03 pm
    • Like6 likes
  24. Profile photo of ClosetSubversive Member

    I am very sorry for the pejorative (which I will not repeat). Please forgive me for that.

    • #24
    • March 21, 2017 at 1:14 pm
    • Like2 likes
  25. Profile photo of Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    Relatedy, and speaking solely for myself (editors’ hat firmly off), I would encourage everyone to drop the phrase “NeverTrump” to describe people’s current opinions. NeverTrump rightly lost almost all of its meaning on November 8th and lost the rest of it two months ago. Donald J. Trump is the President of the United States, full stop.

    FWIW, I don’t know of anyone who still describes themselves as NeverTrump. If they do, then I’ll consider it a knock against them.

    • #25
    • March 21, 2017 at 1:27 pm
    • Like2 likes
  26. Profile photo of Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    Folks, please do not repeat a phrase that has been redacted. Thank you.

    • #26
    • March 21, 2017 at 1:29 pm
    • Like0 likes
  27. Profile photo of Quake Voter Thatcher

    Tom Meyer, Ed. (View Comment):
    Relatedy, and speaking solely for myself (editors’ hat firmly off), I would encourage everyone to drop the phrase “NeverTrump” to describe people’s current opinions. NeverTrump rightly lost almost all of its meaning on November 8th and lost the rest of it two months ago. Donald J. Trump is the President of the United States, full stop.

    FWIW, I don’t know of anyone who still describes themselves as NeverTrump. If they do, then I’ll consider it a knock against them.

    First, Tom, thanks for switching hats on this one. I disagree. NeverTrump was not an insult but a brand chosen by a very large percentage of the conservative intelligentsia. Some percentage of the NTs were making a practicable argument — “Trump was a disastrous general election candidate; we would lose the House, the Senate, SCOTUS; lost the best … — which was mooted by Trump’s win, the GOP Congress and the choice of Gorsuch over Judy Judy (sorry, can’t help myself). Yet, others were NeverTrump for reasons of character, deep personal instability and long-term damage to conservatism they foresaw which really haven’t been budged by Trump’s rather erratic behavior.

    There are still many NeverTrump conservative writers; more than a few very vocal and very substantial NeverTrump Ricochet members.

    Personally, I was Against Trump but never NeverTrump, and in hindsight feel the Against Trump brand created a political locked-in syndrome that was very destructive to conservatism.

    On the other hand, the use of Trump Train, like NeverTrump, was a self chosen brand by early passionate Trump supporters. Fair use if you understand its limitations.

    Of course, Tom, you have a point. While these terms, if used with care, signify something in the world with a usable, fair shorthand, they also make me an Against Trump/NeverNeverTrump/NeverTrumpTrain/ReluctantTrumper who mentions Judge Judy more times than is mentally healthy.

    I’d say use with care when speaking about present pro- and anti-Trump distempers, but fair use when trying to place this past election into some sort of usable categories, if you are willing to make some distinctions.

    Worth noting, that VDH’s opinions about the more unfortunate aspects of Trump’s character can be deep and unsparing.

    • #27
    • March 21, 2017 at 2:10 pm
    • Like6 likes
  28. Profile photo of Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    There are still many NeverTrump conservative writers; more than a few very vocal and very substantial NeverTrump Ricochet members.

    Again, I can think of people who are reflexively anti-Trump. If they (or others) still describe themselves as “NeverTrump”:

    1. It’s escaped my notice; and
    2. I personally think it’s a foolish label to cling to.

    As I joked a while back, the only time I seem to hear the phrase “NeverTrumpers” these days, it’s usually proceeded by the word “you.”

    • #28
    • March 21, 2017 at 2:24 pm
    • Like0 likes
  29. Profile photo of Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    Personally, I was Against Trump but never NeverTrump, and in hindsight feel the Against Trump brand created a political locked-in syndrome that was very destructive to conservatism.

    I agree this dynamic exists and that it’s harmful; that is, that there is a natural pressure among those who opposed Trump to find validation in his failures (or “failures”). This is deeply unfortunate and leads some people to miss or dismiss genuinely good things the president has done.

    That said, I also think there’s a parallel tendency on the other side to find validation in Trump’s victories (or “victories”), and I think that’s also harmful.

    Personally, most people seem to be evaluating the president on the merits: I’ve seen former NeverTrumpers praise him where they thought necessary, and former Trump-supporters criticize him we they thought he earned it.

    That doesn’t mean, however, that everyone agrees on when he deserves praise or condemnation. And that’s fine.

    • #29
    • March 21, 2017 at 2:36 pm
    • Like2 likes
  30. Profile photo of Michael Stopa Podcaster

    ClosetSubversive (View Comment):
    I don’t know why the [redacted] can’t get past the Never-Trumpers, but it appears that they never will. Trump won. Never-Trump is effectively dead or as the kids say “not a thing” anymore. I have heard multitudes of the former Never-Trumpers say that they were wrong about the election. Today, I hear them praising Trump when he deserves praise (fantastic cabinet and superior SCOTUS pick) and criticizing him when he deserves criticism. I don’t understand this bitterness and the need to continually demand that they (the former Never-Trumpers) prostrate themselves. I hope they never do because I’m positive that even that wouldn’t be enough. I’ve always liked VDH and enjoy listening to him, but his vindictiveness over – of all things Donald J. Trump – diminishes him. Magnanimity is the mark of a man confident in himself and his opinions. Only the insecure continually demand validation from others. I’m embarrassed for all of you.

    Other than that, great podcast.

    Hi Closet, thanks for that last sentence. Glad we are being entertaining even if we are being aggravating :-).

    Regarding the NeverTrumpers (forgive me Jon, but they do remain) and never getting over them, you are right. There is definite rancor and general piss-offedness (can I say that…if not, sorry). But I was a delegate for Trump. I was working for him since September 2015. I went to a Ricochet/National Review meetup in NH on the eve of the NH debate. And I witnessed 400 people (I think I had two allies) and six moderators eviscerate Trump. They were funny and charming. One (Rob) I consider a friend. But I was stunned! I had no idea the anti-Trump conservatives were such a phalanx.

    And I thought at the time that they were completely clueless; clueless because they couldn’t imagine that a guy way ahead in the polls might actually win the primary, the nomination, the election. And equally clueless because they could not imagine why he should win and what he had the potential to do for conservatives.

    And I took their ignorance to be willful. I still believe that. There was an investment that they, as professionals, had made in the election and their particular candidates. There was an investment they increasingly made against Trump. And Trump was beating them.

    So here is the crux. As I was out there running for delegate and organizing for the Massachusetts primary and writing wherever I could get published about the campaign, I saw this coterie of clueless people *who held the same values that I did* actively trying to undermine what I believed to be (and now know to have been) the right path forward for our shared values. And I thought many of them – not all! – were vain and shallow out-of-touch elites.

    So Closet, the “can’t get past it” thing is true. I am still angry at them. Whenever I meet one-on-one with any of them I find a way through to real communication. People like Rob Long (and many Ricochet people) I deeply respect because he/they struggled to see both sides. There are many in the professional commentariat who, I believe, never did.

    • #30
    • March 21, 2017 at 2:43 pm
    • Like10 likes
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