We’ve got nothing but bad martinis today. Jim Geraghty of National Review and Greg Corombos of Radio America are frustrated by President Trump ordering the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria, even as Turkey specifically says it wants us gone so it can attack our Kurdish allies who did more than anyone else in the region to confront ISIS. Jim and Greg also swat away the NBA’s pathetic apology to China after the general manager of the Houston Rockets tweeted out that people should stand with Hong Kong. And they groan as they see polls for the upcoming legislative races in Virginia looking very rough for Republicans.

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There are 91 comments.

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  1. Arahant Member

    In Virginia, maybe part of it is having Republican journalists talking everything down that brings down enthusiasm?

    • #1
    • October 7, 2019, at 11:35 AM PST
    • 1 like
  2. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Everything stinks today. Trump is off his meds and sans sane advisors and the Astros are losing.

    • #2
    • October 7, 2019, at 1:11 PM PST
    • 1 like
  3. Joe D. Lincoln

    I would like to complain about sending more troops to Saudia Arabia…

    • #3
    • October 7, 2019, at 1:39 PM PST
    • 1 like
  4. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    I feel bad for the Kurds and all, but can someone explain to me why we are in Syria in the first place? 

    Or to put it another way: How many dead American soilders are we willing to have in order to protect the Kurds?

    • #4
    • October 7, 2019, at 1:41 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  5. WilliamDean Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I feel bad for the Kurds and all, but can someone explain to me why we are in Syria in the first place?

    To block Iran’s path to the Mediterranean

     

    Or to put it another way: How many dead American soilders are we willing to have in order to protect the Kurds?

    It’s all about preventing a local Hegemony from forming, either Iranian or Turkic, which would permit them to pursue naval expansion.

    • #5
    • October 7, 2019, at 2:16 PM PST
    • 5 likes
  6. OccupantCDN Coolidge

    A man of many colours! lolz… Best description of Justine Trudeau ever.

    • #6
    • October 7, 2019, at 4:32 PM PST
    • 1 like
  7. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    And the Xanax kicks in and he reconsiders.

    • #7
    • October 7, 2019, at 5:39 PM PST
    • Like
  8. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    WilliamDean (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I feel bad for the Kurds and all, but can someone explain to me why we are in Syria in the first place?

    To block Iran’s path to the Mediterranean

     

    Or to put it another way: How many dead American soilders are we willing to have in order to protect the Kurds?

    It’s all about preventing a local Hegemony from forming, either Iranian or Turkic, which would permit them to pursue naval expansion.

    Got a much easier way to do that, which results in no American Deaths at all. 

    Bomb them with B2s. 

    No, we can’t do that. That would be wrong. Better to have American die so that we can slow Iran down from getting nukes but not stop them. Then, tens of thousands of can die in the middle east, and in some American city thanks to a terror bomb. Then, in our rage, millions will die in Iran.

    But we can all pat ourselves on the back that we did not kill a whole bunch of them first. 

    We should destroy every bridge, every power plant, every dam, every military base in Iran. That will solve that problem, forever. 

    If that is too extreme for you, please tell me how many American dead are you willing to take, in order to save the lives of Iranian citizens? What is your ratio? 

    • #8
    • October 7, 2019, at 7:00 PM PST
    • 1 like
  9. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    Are there Republican state legislature candidates in your Authenticity Woods? In much of Northern Virginia, no candidates were fielded. Recruitment did not go well.

    • #9
    • October 7, 2019, at 8:34 PM PST
    • Like
  10. WilliamDean Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    WilliamDean (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I feel bad for the Kurds and all, but can someone explain to me why we are in Syria in the first place?

    To block Iran’s path to the Mediterranean

     

    Or to put it another way: How many dead American soilders are we willing to have in order to protect the Kurds?

    It’s all about preventing a local Hegemony from forming, either Iranian or Turkic, which would permit them to pursue naval expansion.

    Got a much easier way to do that, which results in no American Deaths at all.

    Bomb them with B2s.

    No, we can’t do that. That would be wrong. Better to have American die so that we can slow Iran down from getting nukes but not stop them. Then, tens of thousands of can die in the middle east, and in some American city thanks to a terror bomb. Then, in our rage, millions will die in Iran.

    But we can all pat ourselves on the back that we did not kill a whole bunch of them first.

    We should destroy every bridge, every power plant, every dam, every military base in Iran. That will solve that problem, forever.

    If that is too extreme for you, please tell me how many American dead are you willing to take, in order to save the lives of Iranian citizens? What is your ratio?

    First, let me point out the indignant and overly sarcastic tone of your response is unnecessary and unhelpful.

    Iran is not Iraq. It is three times as large with population and military targets distributed throughout it. Much of it’s populated area is in mountainous terrain well suited to burying infrastructure and withstanding bombing. In contrast, Iraq is almost all flat plains and desert. Iran has a well trained and well equipped army with advanced anti-aircraft capability. 

    Your bombing campaign would be insufficient to do the kind of damage you’re dreaming of, would certainly not threaten the regime in any kind of existential way, would be expensive and probably politically unsustainable as you already note, and would lead to American pilots being shot down and likely captured.

    Now, in contrast, in the flat plains and deserts of Iraq and Syria on neutral ground, Iran’s forces are not close to a match for us. They know this.

    Our current strategy of isolating Iran and hitting them with sanctions has been effective to this point. The Iranian economy is in shambles, and the regime has had to pull inward to maintain security over a populace that is growing unruly. The pot shots we may have to endure while keeping up this siege pales to the cost of trying to end the regime militarily.

    • #10
    • October 7, 2019, at 8:38 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  11. Lois Lane Coolidge

    It’s all crazy. The Trump tweet sounds like a Saturday Night Live parody. I don’t get it. I remember again why I cried when Jim Mattis resigned.

    • #11
    • October 7, 2019, at 9:01 PM PST
    • 1 like
  12. OccupantCDN Coolidge

    I’d worry about the future of the west in China. Hopefully someday the Communists are gone, and China is free.

    Wouldnt the people remember the collaborators? The Googles, the NBA, and maybe even the west in general, and be distrustful and resentful, and not be consumers of western products… Look at the fates of collaborators in occupied Europe.

    • #12
    • October 7, 2019, at 9:10 PM PST
    • 1 like
  13. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    The Bloomberg quote reminds me of Gerald Ford’s Polish quote.

    • #13
    • October 8, 2019, at 12:48 AM PST
    • Like
  14. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    WilliamDean (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    WilliamDean (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I feel bad for the Kurds and all, but can someone explain to me why we are in Syria in the first place?

    To block Iran’s path to the Mediterranean

     

    Or to put it another way: How many dead American soilders are we willing to have in order to protect the Kurds?

    It’s all about preventing a local Hegemony from forming, either Iranian or Turkic, which would permit them to pursue naval expansion.

    Got a much easier way to do that, which results in no American Deaths at all.

    Bomb them with B2s.

    No, we can’t do that. That would be wrong. Better to have American die so that we can slow Iran down from getting nukes but not stop them. Then, tens of thousands of can die in the middle east, and in some American city thanks to a terror bomb. Then, in our rage, millions will die in Iran.

    But we can all pat ourselves on the back that we did not kill a whole bunch of them first.

    We should destroy every bridge, every power plant, every dam, every military base in Iran. That will solve that problem, forever.

    If that is too extreme for you, please tell me how many American dead are you willing to take, in order to save the lives of Iranian citizens? What is your ratio?

    First, let me point out the indignant and overly sarcastic tone of your response is unnecessary and unhelpful.

    Iran is not Iraq. It is three times as large with population and military targets distributed throughout it. Much of it’s populated area is in mountainous terrain well suited to burying infrastructure and withstanding bombing. In contrast, Iraq is almost all flat plains and desert. Iran has a well trained and well equipped army with advanced anti-aircraft capability.

    Your bombing campaign would be insufficient to do the kind of damage you’re dreaming of, would certainly not threaten the regime in any kind of existential way, would be expensive and probably politically unsustainable as you already note, and would lead to American pilots being shot down and likely captured.

    Now, in contrast, in the flat plains and deserts of Iraq and Syria on neutral ground, Iran’s forces are not close to a match for us. They know this.

    Our current strategy of isolating Iran and hitting them with sanctions has been effective to this point. The Iranian economy is in shambles, and the regime has had to pull inward to maintain security over a populace that is growing unruly. The pot shots we may have to endure while keeping up this siege pales to the cost of trying to end the regime militarily.

    I don’t want to trade American lives to save Iranian ones. 

    I also don’t think Iran has all its power plants,,dames, bridges and military bases under ground. 

    • #14
    • October 8, 2019, at 2:36 AM PST
    • Like
  15. Lois Lane Coolidge

    My son is in the military, and I find Trump’s approach to foreign policy to be dangerous. Not because I have any special insight but because I feel “the long run” is the place in which young men and women get killed. I hate all the withdrawal/quagmire talk from isolationists like Trump and Paul who so quickly forget why Obama’s withdrawal from Iraq cost—in my opinion—more lives “in the long run” because it further destabilized the region. I remember why I thought Trump sounded to me like a Democrat in 2016, and I remember why I hate having a commander and chief who is both mercurial and without any military experience at all. I hate it the most because none of it feels abstract to me. I have a kid I love in uniform, and I think stuff like this puts him more at risk. Not less.

    • #15
    • October 8, 2019, at 4:02 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  16. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    I love that Pence is there. I want stable people around Trump.

    • #16
    • October 8, 2019, at 4:20 AM PST
    • 1 like
  17. Lois Lane Coolidge

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    I love that Pence is there. I want stable people around Trump.

    I found Jim Mattis comforting because he was directing and rebuilding the military and military strategy. He had clearly thought through his positions. He understood what was at stake, and I felt that was very good. 

    Vice Presidents, on the other hand, have very little power and only serve at the behest of the president. I don’t know what to make of Pence. I would feel much more comfortable voting for him than for Trump, but that is not an option. He gives advice, but does he actually temper Trump?

    I don’t know. 

    I recently made a decision to vote for Trump in 2020 because of the shenanigans that have taken place with the courts. It seemed to me that I’d just have to get over any objections and do it because that has become so important. 

    Then stuff like this makes me want to just avoid the top of the ticket entirely again and show up for lower offices on election day. 

    I swear that every time I think… yeah… okay. I like some of the things that have happened under Trump; Democrats are bat poop insane; I cannot let any of them get into power because they are dangerous; they act like Maoists, and their ideas are truly vapid… I feel snapped back into a space of… oh, yeah. He’s crazy, too.

    It’s exhausting.

    • #17
    • October 8, 2019, at 5:13 AM PST
    • 1 like
  18. Arahant Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):
    oh, yeah. He’s crazy, too.

    But far less crazy and dangerous.

    • #18
    • October 8, 2019, at 7:59 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  19. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    My son is in the military, and I find Trump’s approach to foreign policy to be dangerous. Not because I have any special insight but because I feel “the long run” is the place in which young men and women get killed. I hate all the withdrawal/quagmire talk from isolationists like Trump and Paul who so quickly forget why Obama’s withdrawal from Iraq cost—in my opinion—more lives “in the long run” because it further destabilized the region. I remember why I thought Trump sounded to me like a Democrat in 2016, and I remember why I hate having a commander and chief who is both mercurial and without any military experience at all. I hate it the most because none of it feels abstract to me. I have a kid I love in uniform, and I think stuff like this puts him more at risk. Not less.

    But, why be in Iraq in the first place? 

    I bought into the idea we would remake Iraq. I did. It turns our that did not work. Or that it would take generations and the American people would not support it. Or something. 

    But telling me that we need to stay in Syria to protect the Kurds is not the same argument is that “we leave, and we will be back, and it will be worse”.

    OK fine. Make that argument and convince me that your feeling is correct. Map out for me how we get there. 

    • #19
    • October 8, 2019, at 9:45 AM PST
    • Like
  20. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    I love that Pence is there. I want stable people around Trump.

    I found Jim Mattis comforting because he was directing and rebuilding the military and military strategy. He had clearly thought through his positions. He understood what was at stake, and I felt that was very good.

    Vice Presidents, on the other hand, have very little power and only serve at the behest of the president. I don’t know what to make of Pence. I would feel much more comfortable voting for him than for Trump, but that is not an option. He gives advice, but does he actually temper Trump?

    I don’t know.

    I recently made a decision to vote for Trump in 2020 because of the shenanigans that have taken place with the courts. It seemed to me that I’d just have to get over any objections and do it because that has become so important.

    Then stuff like this makes me want to just avoid the top of the ticket entirely again and show up for lower offices on election day.

    I swear that every time I think… yeah… okay. I like some of the things that have happened under Trump; Democrats are bat poop insane; I cannot let any of them get into power because they are dangerous; they act like Maoists, and their ideas are truly vapid… I feel snapped back into a space of… oh, yeah. He’s crazy, too.

    It’s exhausting.

    It is crazy for Trump to want to bring our boys home from conflicts with no end in sight?

    LL what are we doing their? What are the objectives. What is the end game. When do we get to stop having boots on the ground in Syria? 

    You brought up Iraq. Well there, we conducted regime change. Here were are doing what? Sort of protecting people kinda from a regime we refuse to topple? What is your plan to win? Maybe you think that we need to have troops there until the end of the Republic. I don’t know, because no one saying this is a bad thing, can tell me what the actual objectives are. No one can seem to say what the final outcome we are shooting for. Give me a goal of some sort. Any goal. But don’t tell me we have to stay just because things will get worse if we leave. That is not enough. 

     

    • #20
    • October 8, 2019, at 9:50 AM PST
    • Like
  21. Taras Coolidge

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    I love that Pence is there. I want stable people around Trump.

    I found Jim Mattis comforting because he was directing and rebuilding the military and military strategy. He had clearly thought through his positions. He understood what was at stake, and I felt that was very good.

    Vice Presidents, on the other hand, have very little power and only serve at the behest of the president. I don’t know what to make of Pence. I would feel much more comfortable voting for him than for Trump, but that is not an option. He gives advice, but does he actually temper Trump?

    I don’t know.

    I recently made a decision to vote for Trump in 2020 because of the shenanigans that have taken place with the courts. It seemed to me that I’d just have to get over any objections and do it because that has become so important.

    Then stuff like this makes me want to just avoid the top of the ticket entirely again and show up for lower offices on election day.

    I swear that every time I think… yeah… okay. I like some of the things that have happened under Trump; Democrats are bat poop insane; I cannot let any of them get into power because they are dangerous; they act like Maoists, and their ideas are truly vapid… I feel snapped back into a space of… oh, yeah. He’s crazy, too.

    It’s exhausting.

    I think the difference to hold in mind is that while Trump’s foreign policy might hurt the United States by accident, progressive foreign policy will hurt the United States on purpose

    Trump wants to “make America great again”. Progressives want to make America — as they see it, uniquely evil in the world — as weak and subjugated as possible.

    Compare them to British “Remainers”, who are fighting to put an end to British sovereignty, and leave their country under the thumb of the European Community.

    • #21
    • October 8, 2019, at 12:31 PM PST
    • 1 like
  22. Taras Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    I love that Pence is there. I want stable people around Trump.

    I found Jim Mattis comforting because he was directing and rebuilding the military and military strategy. He had clearly thought through his positions. He understood what was at stake, and I felt that was very good.

    Vice Presidents, on the other hand, have very little power and only serve at the behest of the president. I don’t know what to make of Pence. I would feel much more comfortable voting for him than for Trump, but that is not an option. He gives advice, but does he actually temper Trump?

    I don’t know.

    I recently made a decision to vote for Trump in 2020 because of the shenanigans that have taken place with the courts. It seemed to me that I’d just have to get over any objections and do it because that has become so important.

    Then stuff like this makes me want to just avoid the top of the ticket entirely again and show up for lower offices on election day.

    I swear that every time I think… yeah… okay. I like some of the things that have happened under Trump; Democrats are bat poop insane; I cannot let any of them get into power because they are dangerous; they act like Maoists, and their ideas are truly vapid… I feel snapped back into a space of… oh, yeah. He’s crazy, too.

    It’s exhausting.

    It is crazy for Trump to want to bring our boys home from conflicts with no end in sight?

    LL what are we doing their? What are the objectives. What is the end game. When do we get to stop having boots on the ground in Syria?

    You brought up Iraq. Well there, we conducted regime change. Here were are doing what? Sort of protecting people kinda from a regime we refuse to topple? What is your plan to win? Maybe you think that we need to have troops there until the end of the Republic. I don’t know, because no one saying this is a bad thing, can tell me what the actual objectives are. No one can seem to say what the final outcome we are shooting for. Give me a goal of some sort. Any goal. But don’t tell me we have to stay just because things will get worse if we leave. That is not enough.

     

    @bryangstephens — Aren’t you falling into the same error as we did in the Nineties, after the Soviets left Afghanistan? Horrifying human rights abuses there were — none of our affair. 

    And then we discovered that Afghanistan had become a launching pad for Jihadi attacks on the West; i.e., us.

    So what George W. Bush did was, in effect, turn Afghanistan and Iraq into roach motels for terrorists: they attacked American troops there instead of American civilians here, a worthy goal.

    • #22
    • October 8, 2019, at 12:43 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  23. milkchaser Member

    WilliamDean (View Comment):
    WilliamDean

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    I feel bad for the Kurds and all, but can someone explain to me why we are in Syria in the first place?

    To block Iran’s path to the Mediterranean

    Turkey can stop Iran better than we can.

    • #23
    • October 8, 2019, at 3:05 PM PST
    • 1 like
  24. milkchaser Member

    I’m pretty sure that Bolton was fired because he would never have gone along with this.
    Trump ran on pulling troops back to US.

    No way was this erratic. Maybe Jim and Greg have not been paying attention.

    When did we turn our backs on the Kurds? 
    George H.W. Bush – Allowed Saddam to gas them.
    Obama – Left them to defend themselves in Iraq.

    And did people say that they were erratic? Nope.

    • #24
    • October 8, 2019, at 3:09 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    milkchaser (View Comment):

    I’m pretty sure that Bolton was fired because he would never have gone along with this.
    Trump ran on pulling troops back to US.

    No way was this erratic. Maybe Jim and Greg have not been paying attention.

    When did we turn our backs on the Kurds?
    George H.W. Bush – Allowed Saddam to gas them.
    Obama – Left them to defend themselves in Iraq.

    And did people say that they were erratic? Nope.

    But, Trump!

    • #25
    • October 8, 2019, at 5:01 PM PST
    • 1 like
  26. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher

    Taras (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    FredGoodhue (View Comment):

    I love that Pence is there. I want stable people around Trump.

    I found Jim Mattis comforting because he was directing and rebuilding the military and military strategy. He had clearly thought through his positions. He understood what was at stake, and I felt that was very good.

    Vice Presidents, on the other hand, have very little power and only serve at the behest of the president. I don’t know what to make of Pence. I would feel much more comfortable voting for him than for Trump, but that is not an option. He gives advice, but does he actually temper Trump?

    I don’t know.

    I recently made a decision to vote for Trump in 2020 because of the shenanigans that have taken place with the courts. It seemed to me that I’d just have to get over any objections and do it because that has become so important.

    Then stuff like this makes me want to just avoid the top of the ticket entirely again and show up for lower offices on election day.

    I swear that every time I think… yeah… okay. I like some of the things that have happened under Trump; Democrats are bat poop insane; I cannot let any of them get into power because they are dangerous; they act like Maoists, and their ideas are truly vapid… I feel snapped back into a space of… oh, yeah. He’s crazy, too.

    It’s exhausting.

    It is crazy for Trump to want to bring our boys home from conflicts with no end in sight?

    LL what are we doing their? What are the objectives. What is the end game. When do we get to stop having boots on the ground in Syria?

    You brought up Iraq. Well there, we conducted regime change. Here were are doing what? Sort of protecting people kinda from a regime we refuse to topple? What is your plan to win? Maybe you think that we need to have troops there until the end of the Republic. I don’t know, because no one saying this is a bad thing, can tell me what the actual objectives are. No one can seem to say what the final outcome we are shooting for. Give me a goal of some sort. Any goal. But don’t tell me we have to stay just because things will get worse if we leave. That is not enough.

     

    @bryangstephens — Aren’t you falling into the same error as we did in the Nineties, after the Soviets left Afghanistan? Horrifying human rights abuses there were — none of our affair.

    And then we discovered that Afghanistan had become a launching pad for Jihadi attacks on the West; i.e., us.

    So what George W. Bush did was, in effect, turn Afghanistan and Iraq into roach motels for terrorists: they attacked American troops there instead of American civilians here, a worthy goal.

    No I am not.

    If you want to point a finger at 911, please keep the Saudis in mind. They pay for all sorts of evil in the world in many ways. 

    It is time to stop mucking about over there, and let those monsters kill each other off. We cannot invade, police, nor be all over the world. 

    What George W. Bush did was to embroil us in conflicts abroad in the hopes of building Iraq and Afganistan into democracies. You are changing the goals after the fact. 

    I want our boys and girls home. It is far past time to bring them home. We are doing nothing in either nation other than killing people. The error you are falling into is justifying Iraq the same way people used to justify Vietnam.

    I, for one, am tired of people advocating other people’s children go fight, get maimed, or die so that they can feel like we are doing something. 

    Let these poor excuses for nation-states have it out. Let them figure it out. It is not worth our blood or treasure. Or, if it is, then we need to bomb them all into pre-industrial states, and do that to anyone giving them any aid. We can do that and suffer not one lost American. This middle of the road stuff is stupid.

    • #26
    • October 8, 2019, at 5:06 PM PST
    • Like
  27. Lois Lane Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    LL what are we doing their? What are the objectives. What is the end game. When do we get to stop having boots on the ground in Syria?

    You brought up Iraq. Well there, we conducted regime change. Here were are doing what? Sort of protecting people kinda from a regime we refuse to topple? What is your plan to win? Maybe you think that we need to have troops there until the end of the Republic. I don’t know, because no one saying this is a bad thing, can tell me what the actual objectives are. No one can seem to say what the final outcome we are shooting for. Give me a goal of some sort. Any goal. But don’t tell me we have to stay just because things will get worse if we leave. That is not enough.

    Okay, Bryan. Fair enough.

    Then I would like to turn that back on you.

    Has the president laid out a coherent foreign policy strategy that is a little more detailed and directed than, “We can’t stay anywhere forever.” What are his objectives? Simply to “bring our boys home” because “he promised”? We just come home, and then all of those people in the Middle East are not a threat to us anymore? Isn’t that kinda what President Obama said?

    Our policy in Syria was regime change under President Obama, and he clearly wasn’t great at directing foreign policy. But can you articulate what President Trump’s goals are in Syria or anywhere else? Cause I don’t know. I’ve heard something about his “great wisdom” leading us, but it all seems erratic and rather unclear to me once we get beyond the platitudes that Rand Paul likes to spout. Especially if I’m supposed to be reassured that he knows what he’s doing when I read a tweet. Even with lots of caps. Yelling in tweet is not… leadership.

    I think what we are/were doing in Syria–with a VERY small footprint, btw–was providing a bit of stability in one region of the country where we had allies who have spilled their own blood working towards some of our own objectives.

    I don’t blame President Trump for finding himself in a very complicated situation. He didn’t create the conditions in Syria, but he touts all the time how he has vanquished Isis while acting as impatient as President Obama did for what I think are purely political reasons.

    Honestly.

    President Trump hasn’t been president for very long, so any problems we “fixed” because he gained office are fragile fixes. So yeah. I’d like us to just honor our commitments to our allies for more than half a second under his command.

    • #27
    • October 8, 2019, at 7:31 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  28. Lois Lane Coolidge

    milkchaser (View Comment):

    I’m pretty sure that Bolton was fired because he would never have gone along with this.
    Trump ran on pulling troops back to US.

    No way was this erratic. Maybe Jim and Greg have not been paying attention.

    When did we turn our backs on the Kurds?
    George H.W. Bush – Allowed Saddam to gas them.
    Obama – Left them to defend themselves in Iraq.

    And did people say that they were erratic? Nope.

    Um. Yeah. I said all that, so I’m not sure why you think that stuff–the erratic label–only applies to Trump.

    H. W. was both praised for leaving Iraq in tact and criticized for his decisions, but that was a long, long time ago, and the context after the first Gulf War was rather different. I mean, if talking from a purely realist perspective, 9/11 hadn’t happened yet.

    Are you contending no one said anything on Ricochet about how Obama was doing the exact wrong things via his foreign policy? I don’t remember that silence at all. It certainly wasn’t from me. I was pretty yell-y about it. In fact, I’ve been really super consistent because I hated President Obama’s shortsightedness, and I thought he dishonored a lot of Americans who had sacrificed quite a bit in Iraq. It was all so silly to me.

    If you’re going to go down that particular road, I have to say I think Trump supporters are more inconsistent here–or maybe forgetful–because they seem to be cool with actions they would have deplored under Obama.

    It makes no sense to me.

    • #28
    • October 8, 2019, at 7:40 PM PST
    • 1 like
  29. Lois Lane Coolidge

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    I, for one, am tired of people advocating other people’s children go fight, get maimed, or die so that they can feel like we are doing something. 

    Again. I actually have a child in the military. I’m not advocating other people’s children do a darn thing. I would like it very much if our foreign policy was coherent enough for me to have at least a little faith in our government. It’s not.

    • #29
    • October 8, 2019, at 7:44 PM PST
    • 1 like
  30. Arahant Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):
    I would like it very much if our foreign policy was coherent enough for me to have at least a little faith in our government. It’s not.

    Even were it coherent for eight years, it wouldn’t be with a new PotUS, or at least it would be on a new setting.

    • #30
    • October 8, 2019, at 7:49 PM PST
    • Like
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