Vaping the Democratic Debate

Melania puts her stiletto down and makes Donald ban flavored vapes. And did the third Democratic presidential primary debate change any voters’ minds?

The intro/outro song and Jon’s song of the week is “Heavy Echo” by White Noise Sound. Stephen’s song of the week is “Some Things Last a Long Time” by the late, great Daniel Johnston. To listen to all the music featured on The Conservatarians, subscribe to our Spotify playlist!

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There are 38 comments.

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  1. kylez Member

    I hadn’t heard about Johnston. The subject of a really good documentary The Devil and Daniel Johnston, which I watched several years ago. A man whose mental illness was in the way of whatever talents he had. Listening to Stephen’s pick right now, oddly affecting. 

    • #1
    • September 13, 2019, at 3:58 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  2. kylez Member

    R.I.P.

    • #2
    • September 13, 2019, at 3:58 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  3. filmklassik Member

    Another great podcast, and I loved Stephen’s riff about Malania barging into her husband’s tariff meeting holding the vaping pen.

    But it was strange — and maybe a little telling — that at no point in their analysis of last night’s debate did Jon or Stephen mention Beto’s woker than woke “1619” remarks, or his unequivocal endorsement of the U.S. government paying out reparations for slavery.

    They had opinions about Beto and gun confiscation (plenty of them), but were silent about Beto’s firmly held belief that America is historically, foundationally, systemically, and in all other ways rrrrrrrrrrrrracist.

    • #3
    • September 13, 2019, at 9:46 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  4. Zed11 Lincoln

    Miller hit some high notes here. Really. Didn’t know he had Pat Benatar’s range.

    • #4
    • September 14, 2019, at 10:16 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  5. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Buttigieg’s views on abortion are extreme and completely insane. No way would I even consider voting for him. Seems he thinks it is okay for a woman to kill her child at any time and for any reason.

    • #5
    • September 14, 2019, at 10:27 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  6. filmklassik Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Buttigieg’s views on abortion are extreme and completely insane. No way would I even consider voting for him. Seems he thinks it is okay for a woman to kill her child at any time and for any reason.

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    I don’t plan on voting for President (and I hope no one bores me with the usual “But that’s a vote for the Dems!” argument I have heard a million times before; I inevitably tune them out, as I tune out all the “But that’s a vote for Trump!” arguments I inevitably get from the other side.)

    • #6
    • September 14, 2019, at 12:43 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  7. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Buttigieg’s views on abortion are extreme and completely insane. No way would I even consider voting for him. Seems he thinks it is okay for a woman to kill her child at any time and for any reason.

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    I don’t plan on voting for President (and I hope no one bores me with the usual “But that’s a vote for the Dems!” argument I have heard a million times before; I inevitably tune them out, as I tune out all the “But that’s a vote for Trump!” arguments I inevitably get from the other side.)

    You and me both! After the Kavanaugh hearings I was close to holding my nose and voting for Trump, but I can’t do it. I cannot vote for any of the Democrats and I can’t vote for Trump, so whoever wins will win without my vote.

    • #7
    • September 14, 2019, at 3:20 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  8. DHMorgan Coolidge

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    JuliaBlaschke

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Buttigieg’s views on abortion are extreme and completely insane. No way would I even consider voting for him. Seems he thinks it is okay for a woman to kill her child at any time and for any reason.

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    I don’t plan on voting for President (and I hope no one bores me with the usual “But that’s a vote for the Dems!” argument I have heard a million times before; I inevitably tune them out, as I tune out all the “But that’s a vote for Trump!” arguments I inevitably get from the other side.)

    You and me both! After the Kavanaugh hearings I was close to holding my nose and voting for Trump, but I can’t do it. I cannot vote for any of the Democrats and I can’t vote for Trump, so whoever wins will win without my vote.

    I won’t be voting for President unless there is a credible third alternative.

    Though announced Republican candidates (think Weld or Walsh) wouldn’t get my vote in a primary (Mark Sanford? possibly) I think it’s shameful that some states are considering canceling Republican primaries. If all Republicans don’t have an opportunity to weigh in an alternative to Donald Trump, that looks like a step back to a party choosing candidates in “smoke filled rooms.”

    Remember the angry cries when people believed that the “Republican establishment” was promoting a gentleman named Jeb Bush as the man to beat in the 2016 Republican primaries?

    I remember.

    And now an unstable rake like Donald Trump is the “establishment candidate.”

    Who’s crying now?

    • #8
    • September 14, 2019, at 5:06 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  9. filmklassik Member

    DHMorgan (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    JuliaBlaschke

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Buttigieg’s views on abortion are extreme and completely insane. No way would I even consider voting for him. Seems he thinks it is okay for a woman to kill her child at any time and for any reason.

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    I don’t plan on voting for President (and I hope no one bores me with the usual “But that’s a vote for the Dems!” argument I have heard a million times before; I inevitably tune them out, as I tune out all the “But that’s a vote for Trump!” arguments I inevitably get from the other side.)

    You and me both! After the Kavanaugh hearings I was close to holding my nose and voting for Trump, but I can’t do it. I cannot vote for any of the Democrats and I can’t vote for Trump, so whoever wins will win without my vote.

    I won’t be voting for President unless there is a credible third alternative.

    Though announced Republican candidates (think Weld or Walsh) wouldn’t get my vote in a primary (Mark Sanford? possibly) I think it’s shameful that some states are considering canceling Republican primaries. If all Republicans don’t have an opportunity to weigh in an alternative to Donald Trump, that looks like a step back to a party choosing candidates in “smoke filled rooms.”

    Remember the angry cries when people believed that the “Republican establishment” was promoting a gentleman named Jeb Bush as the man to beat in the 2016 Republican primaries?

    I remember.

    And now an unstable rake like Donald Trump is the “establishment candidate.”

    Who’s crying now?

    Agreed. The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

     

    • #9
    • September 14, 2019, at 5:39 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  10. Taras Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    DHMorgan (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    JuliaBlaschke

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Buttigieg’s views on abortion are extreme and completely insane. No way would I even consider voting for him. Seems he thinks it is okay for a woman to kill her child at any time and for any reason.

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    I don’t plan on voting for President (and I hope no one bores me with the usual “But that’s a vote for the Dems!” argument I have heard a million times before; I inevitably tune them out, as I tune out all the “But that’s a vote for Trump!” arguments I inevitably get from the other side.)

    You and me both! After the Kavanaugh hearings I was close to holding my nose and voting for Trump, but I can’t do it. I cannot vote for any of the Democrats and I can’t vote for Trump, so whoever wins will win without my vote.

    I won’t be voting for President unless there is a credible third alternative.

    Though announced Republican candidates (think Weld or Walsh) wouldn’t get my vote in a primary (Mark Sanford? possibly) I think it’s shameful that some states are considering canceling Republican primaries. If all Republicans don’t have an opportunity to weigh in an alternative to Donald Trump, that looks like a step back to a party choosing candidates in “smoke filled rooms.”

    Remember the angry cries when people believed that the “Republican establishment” was promoting a gentleman named Jeb Bush as the man to beat in the 2016 Republican primaries?

    I remember.

    And now an unstable rake like Donald Trump is the “establishment candidate.”

    Who’s crying now?

    Agreed. The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

     

    Pro-Trumpers: “Constitution. National defense. Taxes.”

    Anti-Trumpers: “Trump is so yucky!”

    We’ve had a “rake” in the White House (Bill Clinton), and even an “unstable rake” who nearly started World War III (JFK). In what way does Trump resemble them? Because he is alleged to have had an affair in, what, 2006?

    We’ve had plenty of corruption in the White House (the Clintons, ‘nuff said) but becoming President lowered Trump‘s net worth by at least $1 billion, according to Forbes.

    And plenty of charlatans (“Read my lips …” “You can keep your doctor …” “He kept us out of war …”) but Trump is remarkable in his loyalty to the working class people who elected him. 

    • #10
    • September 16, 2019, at 8:06 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  11. Jdetente Member

    Not exactly alleged….not that this matters to me personally…but the guy is a known womanizer and all around lizard. I’ll be voting for him though. The alternatives are much worse and this time around I won’t be sitting on the sidelines. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie et al would be disastrous if they seize power.

    • #11
    • September 16, 2019, at 9:47 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. kedavis Member

    Jdetente (View Comment):

    Not exactly alleged….not that this matters to me personally…but the guy is a known womanizer and all around lizard. I’ll be voting for him though. The alternatives are much worse and this time around I won’t be sitting on the sidelines. Elizabeth Warren, Bernie et al would be disastrous if they seize power.

    If you could help convince a few others, it could help save the country, perhaps even the world.

    • #12
    • September 16, 2019, at 12:25 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  13. kylez Member

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    This paragraph gives you the answer. You vote for the non-intersectionality-apostle.

    • #13
    • September 16, 2019, at 12:32 PM PDT
    • Like
  14. filmklassik Member

    kylez (View Comment):

    While I can understand Stephen’s position that “Trump is unacceptable and I will never, ever vote for him,” I can’t understand how anyone on Team Woke would be remotely considered vote-worthy. Intersectionality is a religion — a toxic one; it’s harming the culture — and it is growing by the day. And the Dems are its apostles. How can any self-respecting Classic Liberal pull the lever for one??

    This paragraph gives you the answer. You vote for the non-intersectionality-apostle.

    What non-intersectionality apostle? Every candidate on the Left — yep, even Joe Biden — has guzzled the “woke” Kool Aid. Each of them either enthusiastically endorses intersectionality and groups like Blacks Lives Matter or else has made their peace with the idea of “wokeness” and just shrugs their shoulders as if to say, “This is how the world is now.”

    Long story short: No one on the Left has any real problem with watching “wokeness”metastasize.

    But I do.

    • #14
    • September 16, 2019, at 1:07 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  15. kylez Member

    Trump.

    • #15
    • September 16, 2019, at 4:51 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  16. Laura Gadbery Coolidge

    I’m just here for the Trumpressions™️ and the Kamala Cackle. Only you guys can make sense out of this mess. 

    • #16
    • September 16, 2019, at 8:14 PM PDT
    • Like
  17. filmklassik Member

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    • #17
    • September 17, 2019, at 8:43 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  18. kedavis Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    So, vote non-toxic?

    • #18
    • September 17, 2019, at 10:59 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  19. filmklassik Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    So, vote non-toxic?

    Good lord. What if I had written “The options for 2020 are toxic ‘woke’ zealotry on one side, and Cancer, AIDS, Naziism, and Bubonic Plague on the other”— would you still have asked, “So, vote non-toxic?”

    • #19
    • September 17, 2019, at 1:40 PM PDT
    • Like
  20. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Taras (View Comment):
    Anti-Trumpers: “Trump is so yucky!”

    He certainly is yucky, but it is his total ignorance on foreign affairs that causes me concern.

    • #20
    • September 17, 2019, at 3:35 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  21. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If you could help convince a few others, it could help save the country, perhaps even the world.

    Trump could do that. He had every opportunity to do that. But this latest BS with Bolton and before that Mattis and others shows me he really is just a conceited buffoon. And he isn’t going to save the world.

    • #21
    • September 17, 2019, at 3:48 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  22. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Jdetente (View Comment):
    Elizabeth Warren, Bernie et al would be disastrous if they seize power.

    I think they will though. Trump won without my vote last time. He is going to have to do it again. If only he would go away.

    • #22
    • September 17, 2019, at 3:51 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  23. Taras Coolidge

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):
    Anti-Trumpers: “Trump is so yucky!”

    He certainly is yucky, but it is his total ignorance on foreign affairs that causes me concern.

     What an odd thing to say. 

     With his far-flung business interests, Trump came into the White House with far more experience of the world than all but a few Presidents. 

    • #23
    • September 17, 2019, at 3:53 PM PDT
    • Like
  24. kylez Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    I read it. Is there not charlatanism and corruption on the “woke” side?

    • #24
    • September 17, 2019, at 4:02 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  25. filmklassik Member

    kylez (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    I read it. Is there not charlatanism and corruption on the “woke” side?

    Without question. But politics is in many ways about free association. “What’s the first thing you think of when you hear the word (fill in the blank)?”

    And the first thing I think of when I hear the word “Democrat” is “Terminal ‘wokeness’ and toxic identity politics.”

    And the first thing I think of when I hear the word “Trump” is “Charlatanism and corruption.”

     

     

    • #25
    • September 17, 2019, at 4:16 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  26. Taras Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    I read it. Is there not charlatanism and corruption on the “woke” side?

    Without question. But politics is in many ways about free association. “What’s the first thing you think of when you hear the word (fill in the blank)?”

    And the first thing I think of when I hear the word “Democrat” is “Terminal ‘wokeness’ and toxic identity politics.”

    And the first thing I think of when I hear the word “Trump” is “Charlatanism and corruption.”

    See #10. Trump is both less of a charlatan and less corrupt than most of his predecessors.

    N.B.: You’re not a typical voter. Nobody on Ricochet is.

    • #26
    • September 17, 2019, at 11:02 PM PDT
    • Like
  27. kedavis Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    So, vote non-toxic?

    Good lord. What if I had written “The options for 2020 are toxic ‘woke’ zealotry on one side, and Cancer, AIDS, Naziism, and Bubonic Plague on the other”— would you still have asked, “So, vote non-toxic?”

    But you didn’t. If you now want to claim that “charlatanism and corruption” are also toxic, please try (and fail) to make that case. One problem is those (including some on this very thread) who do seem to make that astonishing assumption. Or at least they consider themselves to be so above-it-all that they can’t lower themselves to do what might be necessary to avoid the toxicity.

    • #27
    • September 18, 2019, at 8:20 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  28. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Taras (View Comment):

     What an odd thing to say. 

     With his far-flung business interests, Trump came into the White House with far more experience of the world than all but a few Presidents. 

    Now that is an odd thing to say. Have you heard the man speak? He doesn’t have a clue. You are dreaming.

    • #28
    • September 18, 2019, at 9:45 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  29. filmklassik Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Trump.

    You need to read my post from before where I said:

    The options for 2020 are toxic “woke” zealotry on one side, and charlatanism and corruption on the other.

    So, vote non-toxic?

    Good lord. What if I had written “The options for 2020 are toxic ‘woke’ zealotry on one side, and Cancer, AIDS, Naziism, and Bubonic Plague on the other”— would you still have asked, “So, vote non-toxic?”

    But you didn’t. If you now want to claim that “charlatanism and corruption” are also toxic, please try (and fail) to make that case. One problem is those (including some on this very thread) who do seem to make that astonishing assumption. Or at least they consider themselves to be so above-it-all that they can’t lower themselves to do what might be necessary to avoid the toxicity.

    Okay, so where we disagree is on the simple question of “What behavior is disqualifying for someone seeking to occupy the highest office in the land?”

    And I feel that toxic “woke” zealotry … and charlatanism & corruption … are both disqualifying, while you do not.

    You, presumably, feel that the second set of traits — while hardly enviable — are still not completely disqualifying.

    Fine. But you have about as much chance of convincing me they’re not disqualifying as I have of convincing you they are.

    And this is what is known as an impasse.

     

     

    • #29
    • September 18, 2019, at 9:55 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  30. Taras Coolidge

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    What an odd thing to say.

    With his far-flung business interests, Trump came into the White House with far more experience of the world than all but a few Presidents.

    Now that is an odd thing to say. Have you heard the man speak? He doesn’t have a clue. You are dreaming.

     I think that’s where anti-Trumpers usually go wrong. They put too much weight on his words, and too little on his acts. For example, his negotiations with Canada and Mexico have been quite successful: they need us more than we need them. 

     There was a long, preposterous essay in The Weekly Standard, a few months before it folded, which actually tried to make the argument that Trump’s words are more important than his acts. I have trouble finding a tactful way to express my reaction!

     Not that Trump’s words are not very clever at times, as when he questioned why the US is still in NATO. This put a scare into all the countries who were failing to meet their obligations: because NATO is much more important for them than it is for us. 

    • #30
    • September 18, 2019, at 11:41 AM PDT
    • 1 like
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