Murica

Was Nike’s Betsy Ross Flag imbroglio planned? Because we’re pretty sure Disney’s “Little Mermaid” one was. Also, how did Trump’s Independence Day speech go from “creeping fascism” to “small and sad?”

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There are 29 comments.

  1. filmklassik Member

    In a more rational era, Miller would be one of the top investigative reporters in the country. His insight about NIKE, and the fact that the shoe in question wasn’t even in stores when the “recall” happened, is flat-out brilliant.

    Love this podcast.

    • #1
    • July 5, 2019, at 7:17 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  2. DaddyO Listener

    I enjoy the podcast, but Miller sometimes falls into repetitive haranguing. Let Jon interject more! Otherwise, insightful as hell.

    • #2
    • July 6, 2019, at 10:40 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  3. RufusRJones Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    In a more rational era, Miller would be one of the top investigative reporters in the country. His insight about NIKE, and the fact that the shoe in question wasn’t even in stores when the “recall” happened, is flat-out brilliant.

    Love this podcast.

    Example #1248

    • #3
    • July 7, 2019, at 4:41 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  4. Lois Lane Coolidge

    I enjoyed the podcast. I get super pedantic about history though. So they quote TR and then say in the very next breath they are like Coolidge. I love TR for many thinks and Silent Cal for others, but two dudes were super different, and they shouldn’t be blurred when discussing foreign policy.

    They are spot on about Nike.

    • #4
    • July 7, 2019, at 6:42 AM PDT
    • Like
  5. KarenZiminski Lincoln

    Companies using us as cocks in their cock fights. Beautiful characterization of the Nike flag controversy.

    • #5
    • July 7, 2019, at 7:42 AM PDT
    • Like
  6. filmklassik Member

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    In a more rational era, Miller would be one of the top investigative reporters in the country. His insight about NIKE, and the fact that the shoe in question wasn’t even in stores when the “recall” happened, is flat-out brilliant.

    Love this podcast.

    Example #1248

    Magnificent. Miller rocks!

    And if Beinart (one of the true jerks on the modern punditry scene) genuinely believes what he is saying here (I’m skeptical), I’d be curious to know how he explains the fact that so few high-profile Progressives are ever heard boldly and loudly denouncing Antifa.

    • #6
    • July 7, 2019, at 12:47 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  7. RufusRJones Member

    I just thought of something. I wish some GOP sugar daddy would give Steven Miller a gigantic wad of cash to tear apart all of the pundits that I hate. I mean how does Nicole Wallace and Joe Scarborough change so much? Cash, that’s why. $$$$ There are a million versions of this. Michael Eric Dyson had a perfectly good professor job at Princeton and now he’s a windup doll of wacky vocabulary. Last week he was going crazy. etc. etc. 

    • #7
    • July 7, 2019, at 2:56 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  8. RufusRJones Member

    Another one that is good is @phillyrich1 on twitter.

    He’s the guy that busted Jonathan Gruber. He goes into the C-SPAN archives and makes these clips that are just incredibly embarrassing to Democrat politicians and pundits. The problem is it’s not his full-time job, so there is only so much he can do.

    • #8
    • July 7, 2019, at 3:10 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Thought Leader Member

    “Murica” or “Merica” is one of my pet peeves. It’s how the coastal elites think that flyover rubes pronounce “America.” And sure, flyover country has sort of made it their own, but it’s origins are still a sneering insult at us.

    Please don’t do it.

    • #9
    • July 7, 2019, at 6:31 PM PDT
    • Like
  10. Joe D. Lincoln

    You guys are like my twitter reporters. I mean how would I ever know that there was this crazy tweet about the little mermaid ‘live action’ film if it weren’t for you guys. I did go and look for that hashtag and everything I found was critical of the original tweet. I did not find a single tweet defending it. I do agree with your analysis though – I just don’t think I care enough, and would probably rather not know about it…

    I like your music picks though.

    • #10
    • July 7, 2019, at 8:00 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  11. filmklassik Member

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    “Murica” or “Merica” is one of my pet peeves. It’s how the coastal elites think that flyover rubes pronounce “America.” And sure, flyover country has sort of made it their own, but it’s origins are still a sneering insult at us.

    Please don’t do it.

    Progressives know full well that heartlanders do not say ‘Murica. They know it. But they insist they do anyway, as a way of expressing contempt for Conservatives and for traditional ideas of patriotism.

    • #11
    • July 8, 2019, at 7:53 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. Lois Lane Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    “Murica” or “Merica” is one of my pet peeves. It’s how the coastal elites think that flyover rubes pronounce “America.” And sure, flyover country has sort of made it their own, but it’s origins are still a sneering insult at us.

    Please don’t do it.

    Progressives know full well that heartlanders do not say ‘Murica. They know it. But they insist they do anyway, as a way of expressing contempt for Conservatives and for traditional ideas of patriotism.

    Please don’t do it.

     

    I say “Murica” all the time, but it isn’t meant to be sneering at all. 

    Nor do I think it goes to some idea about rubes in the country, though I suppose you’d have to look at who was deploying it. 

    I attach it–quite fondly, I might add–to George W. Bush’s time in office. He definitely said “Murica”, and he was never making fun of the heartland. The Yale educated Texan was just… Texan.

    While some people might not have loved Bush’s policies or presentation, I personally thought–and think–he was/is a very fine human being. He continues to (quietly) do work with veterans, and I know many people who have been in the military adore him.

    At the very least, I don’t think there’s a person in the country who could say he didn’t care about and admire “ordinary” Americans.

    • #12
    • July 9, 2019, at 4:42 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  13. filmklassik Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

     

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    “Murica” or “Merica” is one of my pet peeves. It’s how the coastal elites think that flyover rubes pronounce “America.” And sure, flyover country has sort of made it their own, but it’s origins are still a sneering insult at us.

    Please don’t do it.

    Progressives know full well that heartlanders do not say ‘Murica. They know it. But they insist they do anyway, as a way of expressing contempt for Conservatives and for traditional ideas of patriotism.

    Please don’t do it.

     

    I say “Murica” all the time, but it isn’t meant to be sneering at all.

    Nor do I think it goes to some idea about rubes in the country, though I suppose you’d have to look at who was deploying it.

    I attach it–quite fondly, I might add–to George W. Bush’s time in office. He definitely said “Murica”, and he was never making fun of the heartland. The Yale educated Texan was just… Texan.

    While some people might not have loved Bush’s policies or presentation, I personally thought–and think–he was/is a very fine human being. He continues to (quietly) do work with veterans, and I know many people who have been in the military adore him.

    At the very least, I don’t think there’s a person in the country who could say he didn’t care about and admire “ordinary” Americans.

    Your post is primarily about Bush. Now, he may be a wonderful guy — I’m sure he is — but that doesn’t change the fact that most of the people using that particular diminutive (‘Murica) online, are using it sarcastically — savagely — as a way to caricature the ones who hold traditionally patriotic (as opposed to the “new” patriotism, which emphasizes criticism of country, its values, and its past) viewpoints.

    • #13
    • July 9, 2019, at 11:26 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  14. Lois Lane Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    “Murica” or “Merica” is one of my pet peeves. It’s how the coastal elites think that flyover rubes pronounce “America.” And sure, flyover country has sort of made it their own, but it’s origins are still a sneering insult at us.

    Please don’t do it.

    Progressives know full well that heartlanders do not say ‘Murica. They know it. But they insist they do anyway, as a way of expressing contempt for Conservatives and for traditional ideas of patriotism.

    Please don’t do it.

    I say “Murica” all the time, but it isn’t meant to be sneering at all.

    Nor do I think it goes to some idea about rubes in the country, though I suppose you’d have to look at who was deploying it.

    I attach it–quite fondly, I might add–to George W. Bush’s time in office. He definitely said “Murica”, and he was never making fun of the heartland. The Yale educated Texan was just… Texan.

    While some people might not have loved Bush’s policies or presentation, I personally thought–and think–he was/is a very fine human being. He continues to (quietly) do work with veterans, and I know many people who have been in the military adore him.

    At the very least, I don’t think there’s a person in the country who could say he didn’t care about and admire “ordinary” Americans.

    Your post is primarily about Bush. Now, he may be a wonderful guy — I’m sure he is — but that doesn’t change the fact that most of the people using that particular diminutive (‘Murica) online, are using it sarcastically — savagely — as a way to caricature the ones who hold traditionally patriotic (as opposed to the “new” patriotism, which emphasizes criticism of country, its values, and its past) viewpoints.

    Then reclaim the word and treat it with affection. After all, the guys here are not mocking patriotism. They are showing how cynical Nike has been in bolstering its brand to people who don’t like the country much.

    Incidentally, I also remember Bush was mocked for saying “Murica” like he was an idiot cowboy or something. He had the grace to smile through that and keep on going cause… well… he was the president of the greatest country on the planet. Plus he was proud he comes from the great state of Texas where—to be quite fair—“Murica” is said at rodeos and turkey shoots and school presentations on a daily basis because Texans (outside of the Californized Austin) have an accent. And it’s darling. ;)

    • #14
    • July 9, 2019, at 11:46 AM PDT
    • Like
  15. filmklassik Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    I say “Murica” all the time, but it isn’t meant to be sneering at all.

    Nor do I think it goes to some idea about rubes in the country, though I suppose you’d have to look at who was deploying it.

    I attach it–quite fondly, I might add–to George W. Bush’s time in office. He definitely said “Murica”, and he was never making fun of the heartland. The Yale educated Texan was just… Texan.

    While some people might not have loved Bush’s policies or presentation, I personally thought–and think–he was/is a very fine human being. He continues to (quietly) do work with veterans, and I know many people who have been in the military adore him.

    At the very least, I don’t think there’s a person in the country who could say he didn’t care about and admire “ordinary” Americans.

    Your post is primarily about Bush. Now, he may be a wonderful guy — I’m sure he is — but that doesn’t change the fact that most of the people using that particular diminutive (‘Murica) online, are using it sarcastically — savagely — as a way to caricature the ones who hold traditionally patriotic (as opposed to the “new” patriotism, which emphasizes criticism of country, its values, and its past) viewpoints.

    Then reclaim the word and treat it with affection. After all, the guys here are not mocking patriotism. They are showing how cynical Nike has been in bolstering its brand to people who don’t like the country much.

    Incidentally, I also remember Bush was mocked for saying “Murica” like he was an idiot cowboy or something. He had the grace to smile through that and keep on going cause… well… he was the president of the greatest country on the planet. Plus he was proud he comes from the great state of Texas where—to be quite fair—“Murica” is said at rodeos and turkey shoots and school presentations on a daily basis because Texans (outside of the Californized Austin) have an accent. And it’s darling. ;)

    Too much to get to here. #1, Not for a minute did I think Gabriel and Miller were mocking patriotism. Far from it. I wouldn’t adore them as much as I do if I thought that. #2, Reclaiming the word will not change its use as a pejorative by the Left. And #3, Just like the grating, rube-ish word “cuss” (as in curse or epithet), ‘Murica is not a word I like the sound of, so I have no plans to start using it. In fact I wish fewer people would, whether sincere, ironic, or flat-out mocking.

    • #15
    • July 9, 2019, at 12:22 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  16. Lois Lane Coolidge

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    I say “Murica” all the time, but it isn’t meant to be sneering at all.

    Nor do I think it goes to some idea about rubes in the country, though I suppose you’d have to look at who was deploying it.

    I attach it–quite fondly, I might add–to George W. Bush’s time in office. He definitely said “Murica”, and he was never making fun of the heartland. The Yale educated Texan was just… Texan.

    While some people might not have loved Bush’s policies or presentation, I personally thought–and think–he was/is a very fine human being. He continues to (quietly) do work with veterans, and I know many people who have been in the military adore him.

    At the very least, I don’t think there’s a person in the country who could say he didn’t care about and admire “ordinary” Americans.

    Your post is primarily about Bush. Now, he may be a wonderful guy — I’m sure he is — but that doesn’t change the fact that most of the people using that particular diminutive (‘Murica) online, are using it sarcastically — savagely — as a way to caricature the ones who hold traditionally patriotic (as opposed to the “new” patriotism, which emphasizes criticism of country, its values, and its past) viewpoints.

    Then reclaim the word and treat it with affection. After all, the guys here are not mocking patriotism. They are showing how cynical Nike has been in bolstering its brand to people who don’t like the country much.

    Incidentally, I also remember Bush was mocked for saying “Murica” like he was an idiot cowboy or something. He had the grace to smile through that and keep on going cause… well… he was the president of the greatest country on the planet. Plus he was proud he comes from the great state of Texas where—to be quite fair—“Murica” is said at rodeos and turkey shoots and school presentations on a daily basis because Texans (outside of the Californized Austin) have an accent. And it’s darling. ;)

    Too much to get to here. #1, Not for a minute did I think Gabriel and Miller were mocking patriotism. Far from it. I wouldn’t adore them as much as I do if I thought that. #2, Reclaiming the word will not change its use as a pejorative by the Left. And #3, Just like the grating, rube-ish word “cuss” (as in curse or epithet), ‘Murica is not a word I like the sound of, so I have no plans to start using it. In fact I wish fewer people would, whether sincere, ironic, or flat-out mocking.

    Fair enough if you don’t like the word. However, people mock or besmirch things all the time without spoiling those things for me. Betsy Ross for instance…. :)

     

    • #16
    • July 9, 2019, at 1:26 PM PDT
    • Like
  17. filmklassik Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    Fair enough if you don’t like the word. However, people mock or besmirch things all the time without spoiling those things for me. Betsy Ross for instance…. :)

    Yeah, “Murica” and especially “cuss” (“There’s no need for cussin, friend”) really set my teeth on edge.

    But this Betsy Ross thing is insane. The Confederate Flag ruffled practically no feathers at all until just a few years ago (Remember The Dukes of Hazard? A hit TV show where the flag was displayed prominently on the car driven by the show’s heroes, and nobody gave a damn). And then, suddenly, around 2014 or so, displaying the Confederate flag became akin to displaying the swastika. It was a symbol of White Supremacy, don’tcha know.

    All right, fine. And then, 45 minutes ago, the Betsy Ross flag became a symbol of white oppression too.

    It wasn’t … and then it was. Overnight.

    Say what??

    So there’s no limiting principle here. Something historical that nobody thinks twice about is suddenly deemed “problematic” by the Left, there’s a bit of pushback by the Right (not much) and then that thing is regarded as unacceptable by the culture. Verboten. And off it goes, to be locked in the cellar of history forever.

    So what’s next?

    • #17
    • July 9, 2019, at 3:00 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  18. RufusRJones Member

    The Confederate Flag was integrated into Southern state flags only when those guys were fighting integration etc. in the 60’s. Everyone effectively gave it a pass until now. That’s the issue. It would be nice if it was just a positive cultural symbol, but I’m not sure it is. 

    • #18
    • July 9, 2019, at 3:13 PM PDT
    • Like
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Thought Leader Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    So there’s no limiting principle here. Something historical that nobody thinks twice about is suddenly deemed “problematic” by the Left, there’s a bit of pushback by the Right (not much) and then that thing is regarded as unacceptable by the culture. Verboten. And off it goes, to be locked in the cellar of history forever.

    There is barely any pushback by the right — at least among the political/pundit class — because they fear being called racist.

    • #19
    • July 9, 2019, at 3:29 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  20. Lois Lane Coolidge

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    The Confederate Flag was integrated into Southern state flags only when those guys were fighting integration etc. in the 60’s. Everyone effectively gave it a pass until now. That’s the issue. It would be nice if it was just a positive cultural symbol, but I’m not sure it is.

    That’s fair when it comes to state flags, and I certainly understand why people didn’t like that incorporation. (It was just wrong.) We should all know by now that the battle flag of Lee’s army was hoisted in the 1960s as a sign of racial dominance, though I also think that the poison of that message slowly dissipated as Jim Crow was shot dead, and the region changed in many, many, many ways over several decades. I mean, the animus wasn’t there for many people of new generations as time went on… as segregationists died out. Bo and Luke Duke, for instance, were just “good ol’ boys never meaning no harm.” (I think that’s how the song went?) Even so, I absolutely supported the removal of the flag from the South Carolina state capital.

    Having said that, there’s been this wild overcorrection that is not helpful and actually creates new gashes in the social fabric. When a country music band is canceled from a state fair simply because they have the word “Confederate” in their name, there’s a problem. It’s sooooo tiring. And it makes it hard for a lot of people in the country to not feel angry and defensive and controlled. 

    It’s getting to the point that it feels like someone might say maybe Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie should change that kid Shiloh’s name because there’s a battle from the Civil War named that? Forget everything else about them. Shiloh should go. Change the kid’s name to something like Leaf. (That’s gender neutral.)

    This “cleansing” of the culture makes people feel more sensitive than they otherwise might in general. (I suspect–even if it grated for other reasons–that the word Murica would not seem to some to be a word intended to demean people if the context was different, though maybe I’m wrong?)

    It’s all complicated, and time is short. The Civil War wasn’t that long ago really. The Civil Rights Movement was yesterday. But it seems to me that some want to keep us in a stand still position–stir up every emotion in the book–to no good end.

    At least, it doesn’t seem productive to me.

     

    • #20
    • July 9, 2019, at 4:19 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  21. Jookie Joon Thatcher

    Blown away by some of the theories that actually make sense. One thing I have also noticed, are these small companies already having designed materials or shoes to sell to those on the right. As Jon stated, it’s a win-win for all.

    My theory as far who truly is in control vs. Miller’s theories? I’m willing to gamble it’s also our politicians and lobbyist. 4 Chan, Russia?We truly are just cocks in the cock fight!! 

    Safe travels!

    • #21
    • July 11, 2019, at 6:24 PM PDT
    • Like
  22. Nicholas Cartwright Thatcher

    Come on, come on. Where is this week’s podcast? This moment is begging for it. This has to be the week that Miller breaks & fires both barrels at the AOC swear jar!?

    • #22
    • July 13, 2019, at 9:33 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  23. filmklassik Member

    Nicholas Cartwright (View Comment):

    Come on, come on. Where is this week’s podcast? This moment is begging for it. This has to be the week that Miller breaks & fires both barrels at the AOC swear jar!?

    I know ! I’ve come to depend on G&M to make sense of all the insanity (or come as close as anyone can!)

    Damn! Wish they’d post more often!

    • #23
    • July 13, 2019, at 10:36 AM PDT
    • Like
  24. Miffed White Male Member

    Nicholas Cartwright (View Comment):

    Come on, come on. Where is this week’s podcast? This moment is begging for it. This has to be the week that Miller breaks & fires both barrels at the AOC swear jar!?

    They said they’re skipping this week.

     

    • #24
    • July 13, 2019, at 11:01 AM PDT
    • Like
  25. Nicholas Cartwright Thatcher

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Nicholas Cartwright (View Comment):

    Come on, come on. Where is this week’s podcast? This moment is begging for it. This has to be the week that Miller breaks & fires both barrels at the AOC swear jar!?

    They said they’re skipping this week.

     

    Ah, ok. Thanks. What a week to miss.

    • #25
    • July 13, 2019, at 12:26 PM PDT
    • Like
  26. kedavis Member

    DrewInWisconsin (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    So there’s no limiting principle here. Something historical that nobody thinks twice about is suddenly deemed “problematic” by the Left, there’s a bit of pushback by the Right (not much) and then that thing is regarded as unacceptable by the culture. Verboten. And off it goes, to be locked in the cellar of history forever.

    There is barely any pushback by the right — at least among the political/pundit class — because they fear being called racist.

    Which is also why Obama didn’t get nearly enough well-deserved criticism for mispronouncing “corps” as “corpse.”

    • #26
    • July 13, 2019, at 7:39 PM PDT
    • Like
  27. kedavis Member

    Lois Lane (View Comment):
    Lois Lane

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    The Confederate Flag was integrated into Southern state flags only when those guys were fighting integration etc. in the 60’s. Everyone effectively gave it a pass until now. That’s the issue. It would be nice if it was just a positive cultural symbol, but I’m not sure it is.

    That’s fair when it comes to state flags, and I certainly understand why people didn’t like that incorporation. (It was just wrong.) We should all know by now that the battle flag of Lee’s army was hoisted in the 1960s as a sign of racial dominance, though I also think that the poison of that message slowly dissipated as Jim Crow was shot dead, and the region changed in many, many, many ways over several decades. I mean, the animus wasn’t there for many people of new generations as time went on… as segregationists died out. Bo and Luke Duke, for instance, were just “good ol’ boys never meaning no harm.” (I think that’s how the song went?) Even so, I absolutely supported the removal of the flag from the South Carolina state capital.

    Grammar Police at your service. Capital is money, or punishment (i.e., death penalty is capital punishment) or a large military ship… A city can be a state capitol.

    • #27
    • July 13, 2019, at 7:44 PM PDT
    • Like
  28. Lois Lane Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Lois Lane (View Comment):Lois Lane

    RufusRJones (View Comment):The Confederate Flag was integrated into Southern state flags only when those guys were fighting integration etc. in the 60’s. Everyone effectively gave it a pass until now. That’s the issue. It would be nice if it was just a positive cultural symbol, but I’m not sure it is.

    That’s fair when it comes to state flags, and I certainly understand why people didn’t like that incorporation. (It was just wrong.) We should all know by now that the battle flag of Lee’s army was hoisted in the 1960s as a sign of racial dominance, though I also think that the poison of that message slowly dissipated as Jim Crow was shot dead, and the region changed in many, many, many ways over several decades. I mean, the animus wasn’t there for many people of new generations as time went on… as segregationists died out. Bo and Luke Duke, for instance, were just “good ol’ boys never meaning no harm.” (I think that’s how the song went?) Even so, I absolutely supported the removal of the flag from the South Carolina state capital.

    Grammar Police at your service. Capital is money, or punishment (i.e., death penalty is capital punishment) or a large military ship… A city can be a state capitol.

    True, true.

    • #28
    • July 16, 2019, at 2:15 PM PDT
    • Like
  29. kedavis Member

    What??? Hillary shouldn’t have lost?

    I hope you mean only according to the exit polls, or something.

    Or you’re just saying that’s what the Left thinks.

    • #29
    • August 11, 2019, at 6:56 PM PDT
    • Like