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  1. colleenb Member
    colleenb
    @colleenb

    I can remember being excited when a woman was nominated as a vice-presidential candidate way back when. Perhaps now with plenty of different people in public office and other spheres, I’m not as wowed by someone breaking a barrier. As with Barack Obama, I wish the Vice President was a better ‘first’ but then I wish that about almost everyone in public life. Thanks for the reflection.

    • #1
  2. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    I never get tired of ignoring this podcast.

    • #2
  3. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I’m trying to understand this podcast.

    I’m trying to imagine the joy that I will feel on the glorious day, o let it be soon, when a man of half-Italian, half-Polish ancestry shall be sworn in as the Vice President of the United States. What a historic day it will be! The rapture! Finally, someone who is like me!

    Somehow, my reaction to this hypothetical day is closer to meh. This must be an indication of the shallowness of my view of the world.

    • #3
  4. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m trying to understand this podcast.

    I’m trying to imagine the joy that I will feel on the glorious day, o let it be soon, when a man of half-Italian, half-Polish ancestry shall be sworn in as the Vice President of the United States. What a historic day it will be! The rapture! Finally, someone who is like me!

    Somehow, my reaction to this hypothetical day is closer to meh. This must be an indication of the shallowness of my view of the world.

    More likely the shallowness of THEIR view of the world.

    And too, aren’t all the electoral votes etc actually for Biden? Which would mean Kamala wasn’t elected, just selected. As they used to say about W…

    • #4
  5. Antonia Okafor Podcaster
    Antonia Okafor
    @antonia

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I never get tired of ignoring this podcast.

    Thanks for commenting and helping with the algorithm anyway! 

    • #5
  6. Antonia Okafor Podcaster
    Antonia Okafor
    @antonia

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m trying to understand this podcast.

    I’m trying to imagine the joy that I will feel on the glorious day, o let it be soon, when a man of half-Italian, half-Polish ancestry shall be sworn in as the Vice President of the United States. What a historic day it will be! The rapture! Finally, someone who is like me!

    Somehow, my reaction to this hypothetical day is closer to meh. This must be an indication of the shallowness of my view of the world.

    Yeah, that’s the same thing. I am sorry that wanting to see someone who looks like you seems shallow to you. Although you would think that since being half-Italian, half-Polish is so ubiquitous that using that example makes sense. It makes sense to make it the butt of your joke. 

    Oh well. Thanks for listening! 

    • #6
  7. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    Well, I enjoyed this special episode. Speak Easy is always different than what can be found in the everywhere elsewhere of rightward media. 

    It’s almost like… there are, like, different points of view. Or something. 

    • #7
  8. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio…
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Antonia Okafor (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I’m trying to understand this podcast.

    I’m trying to imagine the joy that I will feel on the glorious day, o let it be soon, when a man of half-Italian, half-Polish ancestry shall be sworn in as the Vice President of the United States. What a historic day it will be! The rapture! Finally, someone who is like me!

    Somehow, my reaction to this hypothetical day is closer to meh. This must be an indication of the shallowness of my view of the world.

    Yeah, that’s the same thing. I am sorry that wanting to see someone who looks like you seems shallow to you. Although you would think that since being half-Italian, half-Polish is so ubiquitous that using that example makes sense. It makes sense to make it the butt of your joke.

    Oh well. Thanks for listening!

    Ms. Okafor:

    I’ve been troubled since reading your response yesterday. In hindsight, I think that it would have been better had I simply not commented. I apologize.

    I think that you are sincerely trying to address the difficult issue of race in our society, and in this instance, the issue of sex as well. The inauguration of the first female Vice President is a historic occasion. I do wish that it was not this particular Vice President.

    I’ve been increasingly frustrated about identity politics. I find this focus on identity — what you express as someone who “looks like me” — to be very divisive and destructive. This particular Vice President is especially troubling in this regard, as she appears to have been selected principally based on the fact that she is a woman, and secondarily based on the fact that she is (half) black. While I am not a fan of her politics, I do concede that she has the resume qualifications for the position, having served as a Senator from our most populous state.

    I want to live in a world in which people are judged by the content of their character. We seem to be getting farther away from this ideal, and I don’t know what to do about it. I took out my frustration on you, and I’m sorry for that.

    • #8
  9. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I want to live in a world in which people are judged by the content of their character.

    And if people were judged on the content of their character, Kamala Harris would not make it within a light-year of the White House.

    • #9
  10. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I want to live in a world in which people are judged by the content of their character.

    And if people were judged on the content of their character, Kamala Harris would not make it within a light-year of the White House.

    Evidently, while Willie Brown was Speaker of the CA Assembly he was very taken with Kamala’s “character”.

    Of course you are dating a woman is 31 years younger than you, the young woman appears to be bursting with “character”.

    • #10
  11. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I want to live in a world in which people are judged by the content of their character.

    And if people were judged on the content of their character, Kamala Harris would not make it within a light-year of the White House.

    Evidently, while Willie Brown was Speaker of the CA Assembly he was very taken with Kamala’s “character”.

    Of course you are dating a woman is 31 years younger than you, the young woman appears to be bursting with “character”.

    I agree with all three of you: electing people of good character is very important for the country. So I’m curious — how would you judge the character of a Presidential candidate who pays a porn star $130,000 in exchange for her silence for an affair they had a few months after his wife gave birth to their child?

    • #11
  12. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I want to live in a world in which people are judged by the content of their character.

    And if people were judged on the content of their character, Kamala Harris would not make it within a light-year of the White House.

    Evidently, while Willie Brown was Speaker of the CA Assembly he was very taken with Kamala’s “character”.

    Of course you are dating a woman is 31 years younger than you, the young woman appears to be bursting with “character”.

    I agree with all three of you: electing people of good character is very important for the country. So I’m curious — how would you judge the character of a Presidential candidate who pays a porn star $130,000 in exchange for her silence for an affair they had a few months after his wife gave birth to their child?

    As less bad than the character of a Presidential candidate – and now President – who continued to falsely accuse a truck driver of being responsible for the death of his child and first wife, even after that driver had later died himself.

    How’s that?

    Just for starters.

     

    • #12
  13. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    The line “I don’t see color” is an imperfect way of saying “I don’t assume things because of color.” But of course we do. Everyone profiles a bit, sorts, categorizes, makes instant adjustments. We do this with every outward manifestation we see whomever we meet. From clothing to expression to demeanor to accessories to vocal mannerisms. The trick is to get in between yourself and yourself, and realize that they are all trivial things, really. The truth of a person lies beyond the first impression. Who judges the motor of a car on the grillwork?

    I can’t speak to Ms. Okafor’s personal response, and I’ll be damned if have standing to judge it. 

    That said, he said, dragging it down into the muck of politics, we all know that if Condi Rice had been Veep, there would be no gushing about her Chucks. We all know that Harris’ elevated role is a numinous co-president, someone who contains a unique moral authority bestowed by the accidents of her genealogy. There are no good-faith critiques. She must be allowed to start from zero, because what she represents must be celebrated. 

    And yes, it should! The time-honored story of the children of immigrants rising up is part of our national narrative. In a better era, her ascension would be widely celebrated as an argument against the idea of America as a systemically racist country. But the Left is invested in a different story, and any criticism will emphasize the narrative that she is held to different standards. It’s corrosive: her defenders in the media will insist that her superficial aspects be the primary prism through which she is viewed. 

    Hence the necessity of voices like Ms. Okafor. She treats her ideological opponent as a human being, not a collection of attributes, but understands what those attributes mean in the long sweep of American history. I look forward to her critiques. 

    • #13
  14. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    She must be allowed to start from zero, because what she represents must be celebrated. 

    If Harris didn’t have a long history or record, you might have a point. But she does, so you really don’t.

    Tulsi Gabbard pointed out some critical aspects of Harris’s record, and there are others. Such as how she was basically nobody until she became Willie Brown’s mistress. How she didn’t even get ONE delegate in the Democrat primaries. And so much more.

    • #14
  15. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If Harris didn’t have a long history or record, you might have a point. But she does, so you really don’t.

    In case I wasn’t clear, I was speaking the voice of her defenders, not on my behalf. It’s what they say. Full quote:

    We all know that Harris’ elevated role is a numinous co-president, someone who contains a unique moral authority bestowed by the accidents of her genealogy. There are no good-faith critiques. She must be allowed to start from zero, because what she represents must be celebrated. 

    Can you phrase these things in a way that’s less brackish? Asking for a friend. 

    • #15
  16. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    If Harris didn’t have a long history or record, you might have a point. But she does, so you really don’t.

    In case I wasn’t clear, I was speaking the voice of her defenders, not on my behalf. It’s what they say. Full quote:

    We all know that Harris’ elevated role is a numinous co-president, someone who contains a unique moral authority bestowed by the accidents of her genealogy. There are no good-faith critiques. She must be allowed to start from zero, because what she represents must be celebrated.

    Can you phrase these things in a way that’s less brackish? Asking for a friend.

    It didn’t read like that to me, but okay, THEY don’t have a point. And I don’t think anyone needs to go along with that point despite the evidence, because to do otherwise is racist, or would be depriving a group of people of some kind of “role model” who “looks like them.” Really, if people who “look like her” aren’t actually ASHAMED of her, and of what she’s done, and how she’s done it, etc, that says more to me. Do parents of any color really wish for their daughters to follow the path of Kamala Harris? I sure hope not!

    • #16
  17. EDISONPARKS Member
    EDISONPARKS
    @user_54742

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    I want to live in a world in which people are judged by the content of their character.

    And if people were judged on the content of their character, Kamala Harris would not make it within a light-year of the White House.

    Evidently, while Willie Brown was Speaker of the CA Assembly he was very taken with Kamala’s “character”.

    Of course you are dating a woman is 31 years younger than you, the young woman appears to be bursting with “character”.

    I agree with all three of you: electing people of good character is very important for the country. So I’m curious — how would you judge the character of a Presidential candidate who pays a porn star $130,000 in exchange for her silence for an affair they had a few months after his wife gave birth to their child?

    I would judge Trump’s character as described above as really lacking.

    And I would guess the Stormy Daniels and the former Playboy Bunny(Karen McDougal) were the only two NDA related sex scandals which the other end of the NDA came forward, meaning there were more than likely other similar incidents of sexual relationships Trump never wanted disclosed and was willing to pay to keep quiet …. In addition, I would surmise there are other sexual relationships where the woman never even came forward to create an NDA because the woman didn’t want the notoriety of having effectively been Trump’s concubine.

    Not quite up to the making a 21 year old employee intern your concubine level of lacking character, but definitely in the same lacking character family.

    IMO Kamala’s situation was more of the old Hollywood starlet getting a leg up in the industry by using the casting couch to further her career, and when Biden steps down in due time, the political casting couch will prove to be the ultimate means of furthering one’s career.

    • #17
  18. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    EDISONPARKS (View Comment):

    I would judge Trump’s character as described above as really lacking.

    And I would guess the Stormy Daniels and the former Playboy Bunny(Karen McDougal) were the only two NDA related sex scandals which the other end of the NDA came forward, meaning there were more than likely other similar incidents of sexual relationships Trump never wanted disclosed and was willing to pay to keep quiet …. In addition, I would surmise there are other sexual relationships where the woman never even came forward to create an NDA because the woman didn’t want the notoriety of having effectively been Trump’s concubine.

    Not quite up to the making a 21 year old employee intern your concubine level of lacking character, but definitely in the same lacking character family.

    IMO Kamala’s situation was more of the old Hollywood starlet getting a leg up in the industry by using the casting couch to further her career, and when Biden steps down in due time, the political casting couch will prove to be the ultimate means of furthering one’s career.

    Thanks, I appreciate this thoughtful response as opposed to the knee-jerk (no pun intended) reaction others have given. 

    Look, as a former constituent, I am no fan of Kamala Harris. And if you actually listen to Antonia’s podcast (it’s only 4 minutes long), she makes it clear that from a political and policy standpoint, neither is she. But I find it very understandable — and very human– to admire someone who looks like you or shares a common culture who is the first to reach one of the highest pinnacles in our culture.

    The rumor mongering and scurrilous stories in some of the comments in this thread were not appropriate in the context of this podcast. And quite frankly, embarrassing. It’s not what this place is supposed to be. 

    • #18