Welcome to the Ricochet debut of the Somethingburger Podcast with Mikayla Goetz.

Today we are talking porn. It’s the thing we never talk about. The thing that stays in the literal and metaphorical dark- but not anymore. Join Host Mikayla and Producer Cha as they get in to the heart of the matter: Does porn kill love?

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There are 13 comments.

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  1. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    There is obviously a correlation between depression and pornography but is there causation? Obviously depressed people would turn to pornography but does pornography cause depression? Male sexuality has always been utterly insane. The works of Sherman Alexie and Frank McCourt cover this quite well without being excessively graphic.

    Also, dark hole sounds like. Well… you know.

    • #1
  2. Mikayla Goetz Contributor
    Mikayla Goetz
    @Mikayla Goetz

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    There is obviously a correlation between depression and pornography but is there causation? Obviously depressed people would turn to pornography but does pornography cause depression? Male sexuality has always been utterly insane. The works of Sherman Alexie and Frank McCourt cover this quite well without being excessively graphic.

    Also, dark hole sounds like. Well… you know.

    Hey! I’m so glad you gave the show a listen. It’s a good question. Regardless, I lay out multiple reasons we should steer clear of pornography–depression only being one small one. In fact, I mostly discuss mental health outcomes for the performers, which is another issue entirely. 

     

     

    • #2
  3. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Mikayla Goetz (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    There is obviously a correlation between depression and pornography but is there causation? Obviously depressed people would turn to pornography but does pornography cause depression? Male sexuality has always been utterly insane. The works of Sherman Alexie and Frank McCourt cover this quite well without being excessively graphic.

    Also, dark hole sounds like. Well… you know.

    Hey! I’m so glad you gave the show a listen. It’s a good question. Regardless, I lay out multiple reasons we should steer clear of pornography–depression only being one small one. In fact, I mostly discuss mental health outcomes for the performers, which is another issue entirely.

    Should we replace pornography with robotic androids and actresses as porn and sex work have always existed and will always exist. It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. I’m sorry but I don’t see people en masse turning to Christ and abandoning pornography.

    • #3
  4. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    Welcome to the network! I’m glad to see you chose such a nice, light, fluffy topic to get things going. 

    • #4
  5. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Should we replace pornography with robotic androids and actresses as porn and sex work have always existed and will always exist. It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. I’m sorry but I don’t see people en masse turning to Christ and abandoning pornography.

    The use of pornography is also corrosive to the person using it. Take the example of the drawn stuff; let’s say someone is masturbating to strictly unreal pornography. On the one hand that’s objectively better than providing a customer base to the kind of stuff that films trafficked women. On the other hand (uh, maybe I should use a different idiom) you’re still setting the person up with unrealistic expectations about sex, relationships, and things in general. In fact, probably moreso because not-real people don’t have to follow real physics. 

    Same story with sex robots. Let’s say that I, assuming that orgasms are strictly brain chemistry, buy myself a sex bot. Let’s say it’s a high end one, with a convincing simulated personality that’s more pleasant to deal with than a real person. One that never says no. Do you think I’m going to be able to relate to real women after that? That I wouldn’t resent them for not throwing themselves at me like in an adolescent fantasy?

    What if you can’t build a more pleasing robot? The portion of the population who’s relegated to sex bots are going to resent that, that they’re not good enough for real women. If pornography leads toward men being more violent to women, why wouldn’t sex bots? If you’re building an underclass of resentful men who are also being conditioned away from respecting women, well that doesn’t seem to lead anywhere better to me.

    • #5
  6. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher (View Comment):
    he portion of the population who’s relegated to sex bots are going to resent that, that they’re not good enough for real women. If pornography leads toward men being more violent to women, why wouldn’t sex bots? If you’re building an underclass of resentful men who are also being conditioned away from respecting women, well that doesn’t seem to lead anywhere better to me.

    Well we already have a underclass that doesn’t get married Also, what would be so bad if the most self-destructive populations in our society quit reproducing themselves? We can easily afford a welfare state for a middle class people who fall low but we can’t afford a welfare state for a perennially regenerating underclass. I don’t see Christianity or sexual continence reintroducing themselves to the lower classes like our new podcasters hope it will. May I ask the producer Cha if any of the prostitutes she helped out turned to Christ and quit prostitution.

    Every technological innovation creates problems while advancing other parts of the economy and society. I suppose I fundamentally disagree that most male sexuality can be altered towards Christianity (love, intimacy and children). Primarily male sexuality is relentless and primal urge that seeks release. I wrote this about a human sexuality in one of my earliest posts.

    Imagine that a genius scientist secretly abducted children and medically altered them to make them violent, cruel and obsessed with sex. When the police arrested this person and asked him why he did such a bizarre thing, he responded that he wanted the children to breed with each other as soon as possible. He also treated the boys the and girls quite differently. The boys he made to be violent so they could kill off other boys in order to mate with girls. Furthermore, he made the girls cruel so they would ridicule and bully other girls to keep them away from mating with boys.

    After the children were rescued, there was a lot of charity given to the victims and various therapists volunteered pro bono to help them. But the children never recovered from the horrible experimentation. The boys had a strong predilection towards violence until their mid thirties and the girls were always self-conscious about their appearance because the boys were made to be obsessed with looks. The girls also went crazy when they got old and nobody was interested in looking at them.

    What was the mad scientist’s name? …

    His name is puberty. And his victims are almost every human being that lives past 12.

    What would be considered the grossest and most extreme kind of child abuse is considered normal because we are currently powerless to stop it.

    To summarize. Human nature will beat Christian love. I suggest that we make peace with it and root for Christian love like budget root for sensibility.

    • #6
  7. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I suppose I fundamentally disagree that most male sexuality can be altered towards Christianity (love, intimacy and children). Primarily male sexuality is relentless and primal urge that seeks release.

    You have a point there. I took the line in the podcast “we can be the generation that ends pornography” to be more aspirational than realistic. Without going into the Biblical account not even in the best of times has sin been purged entirely from the body politic. As individuals that doesn’t change our best options. As a nation we’re stuck considering ways to mitigate the problem.

    But what is the problem we’re trying to mitigate? I’d call it “sin”, and probably the podcast hosts would too, but I don’t expect a secular world to care much what I think is sinful or not. Let’s take your discussion of puberty instead. There’s no question that sexual desire lies at the root of a great many evils in the world. If I understand you correctly the idea is that sex robots allows people an outlet for that desire which isn’t in of itself harmful.

    I don’t think it works out that way. For one thing, tricking a man into an orgasm with a robot is fairly easy. Tricking a woman to accept the adulation of a computer program is going to be much harder. A guy doesn’t need his silicon doxie to be sincere. If you could mitigate only half of the problems listed in your puberty example you don’t solve half the problem; you make the other half worse. The mean girls bullying only gets more intense as they have to compete over fewer men. 

    On the male side I don’t think the brute orgasm solves their problem either. If a man wants love and all he gets is sex then his problem isn’t getting solved.

    • #7
  8. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher (View Comment):
    On the male side I don’t think the brute orgasm solves their problem either. If a man wants love and all he gets is sex then his problem isn’t getting solved.

    I don’t believe in solutions. I believe in trade-offs.

    • #8
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Some points that come to mind:

    Women’s romance novels are porn for women. Different type,as unrealistic. I disagree with the assumption that people don’t base their ideas of romance on romance comedies. The idea marriage is going to be a big romance is insidious. 

    Porn can be used by couples to enhance their sex lives. I know that is way controversial on a conservative site, and yet it is true. 

    Anything with power can be destructive. 

    The porn industry is as sick as the movie industry. It treats people as commodities and does not care about the damage it does. I don’t liken that,  AND I think this is true of all sorts of industries. The physical toil for many men in several industries is pretty bad. Any chance of a podcast on that?

    I see too many men living in sexless marriages. That is wrong. It is unfair to require your partner to live in chastity. Sex is part of marriage and emotional intimacy. Men turn to porn . 

    The rise of only fans shows that what men want is engagement. Men want a woman who is interested in them and that is the number one turn on.

    For most women, engaging is multiple casual sex encounters, as if they were men, is more damaging than porn consumption. 

     

    • #9
  10. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher (View Comment):
    On the male side I don’t think the brute orgasm solves their problem either. If a man wants love and all he gets is sex then his problem isn’t getting solved.

    I don’t believe in solutions. I believe in trade-offs.

    Do you believe in interventions that make a problem worse without offering offsetting benefits?

    • #10
  11. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher (View Comment):
    On the male side I don’t think the brute orgasm solves their problem either. If a man wants love and all he gets is sex then his problem isn’t getting solved.

    I don’t believe in solutions. I believe in trade-offs.

    Do you believe in interventions that make a problem worse without offering offsetting benefits?

    Well so does everyone here. 

    • #11
  12. Mikayla Goetz Contributor
    Mikayla Goetz
    @Mikayla Goetz

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    suppose I fundamentally disagree that most male sexuality can be altered towards Christianity (love, intimacy and children). Primarily male sexuality is relentless and primal urge that seeks release.

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Some points that come to mind:

    Women’s romance novels are porn for women. Different type,as unrealistic. I disagree with the assumption that people don’t base their ideas of romance on romance comedies. The idea marriage is going to be a big romance is insidious.

    Porn can be used by couples to enhance their sex lives. I know that is way controversial on a conservative site, and yet it is true.

    Anything with power can be destructive.

    The porn industry is as sick as the movie industry. It treats people as commodities and does not care about the damage it does. I don’t liken that, AND I think this is true of all sorts of industries. The physical toil for many men in several industries is pretty bad. Any chance of a podcast on that?

    I see too many men living in sexless marriages. That is wrong. It is unfair to require your partner to live in chastity. Sex is part of marriage and emotional intimacy. Men turn to porn .

    The rise of only fans shows that what men want is engagement. Men want a woman who is interested in them and that is the number one turn on.

    For most women, engaging is multiple casual sex encounters, as if they were men, is more damaging than porn consumption.

    ————————————-

    Hey! Do you have specific industries in mind? I had a few come to mind, but I would love your thoughts. I’ll look into an episode on that!

    I would like add that there are also many young men and boys who turn to porn long before the possibility of a sexless marriage. Women also want men interested in them. As young women meet young men, perhaps already regularly watching pornography then they may feel undesired, and unwanted–this is also a turn-off and feeds a viscous and loveless (and sexless) cycle.

    • #12
  13. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Mikayla Goetz (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    suppose I fundamentally disagree that most male sexuality can be altered towards Christianity (love, intimacy and children). Primarily male sexuality is relentless and primal urge that seeks release.

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Some points that come to mind:

    Women’s romance novels are porn for women. Different type,as unrealistic. I disagree with the assumption that people don’t base their ideas of romance on romance comedies. The idea marriage is going to be a big romance is insidious.

    Porn can be used by couples to enhance their sex lives. I know that is way controversial on a conservative site, and yet it is true.

    Anything with power can be destructive.

    The porn industry is as sick as the movie industry. It treats people as commodities and does not care about the damage it does. I don’t liken that, AND I think this is true of all sorts of industries. The physical toil for many men in several industries is pretty bad. Any chance of a podcast on that?

    I see too many men living in sexless marriages. That is wrong. It is unfair to require your partner to live in chastity. Sex is part of marriage and emotional intimacy. Men turn to porn .

    The rise of only fans shows that what men want is engagement. Men want a woman who is interested in them and that is the number one turn on.

    For most women, engaging is multiple casual sex encounters, as if they were men, is more damaging than porn consumption.

    ————————————-

    Hey! Do you have specific industries in mind? I had a few come to mind, but I would love your thoughts. I’ll look into an episode on that!

    I would like add that there are also many young men and boys who turn to porn long before the possibility of a sexless marriage. Women also want men interested in them. As young women meet young men, perhaps already regularly watching pornography then they may feel undesired, and unwanted–this is also a turn-off and feeds a viscous and loveless (and sexless) cycle.

     

    I am not sure that my experience with men in my practice supports this. My experience with men is that they want more than sex, they want an actual connection with women. My experience is that men are generally happy for naked time with the woman they love. The most sexy women is the one who is interested in the man. Women are far more concerned about how attractive they are than the men who love them. It is sad, because many women age and decide that sex is no longer on the table. 

    It could be a self-selection issue, but I have not seen porn as the cause of a relationship problem. If it is a problem it is a symptom. 

     

    • #13