Unconditional Amnesty

With the election less than two weeks away, it’s time to start thinking about what a post election party might look like. For that, we call on The Atlantic’s David Frum to help us sort it all out. Also, we debate why the seemingly endless Wikileaks email stories don’t get more traction in the media, a selection of posts from Ricochet’s Member Feed, and that now infamous Megan Kelly-Newt Gingrich confrontation. Just two more weeks…

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There are 31 comments.

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  1. kgrant67 Inactive

    Lileks says that Podesta’s password was “password”. Peter chuckles. As he makes his way to settings to change his password

    • #1
    • October 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM PDT
    • Like
  2. James Gawron Thatcher
    James Gawron Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Flagship,

    The scale of the corruption was Bernie Madoff league. Of course, because it destroyed the credibility of the United States Government itself, this corruption was much worse than anything Madoff did.

    I have said it before but I’ll say it again just for the Flagship Podcast.

    THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS THE PARTY OF NO SHAME.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #2
    • October 28, 2016, at 3:28 PM PDT
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  3. Annefy Member

    I just want to go on record that in the past two days two people I respect each made a comment similar to comments I made here on Ricochet LONG before Trump got the nomination.

    1. Scott Adams: people are feeling bullied by the Federal government and see Trump as “their” bully
    2. David Frum: The GOP needs to figure out what issues make Trump attractive to Trump supporters and address them
    • #3
    • October 28, 2016, at 4:42 PM PDT
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  4. C. Dalloway Inactive

    A Dan Sullivan reference in this episode! Exciting.

    • #4
    • October 28, 2016, at 4:55 PM PDT
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  5. Julia1492 Member

    Somehow, hearing Peter say that the ballots have lain on the table for however long sounds perfectly normal. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard any living person actually say “have lain” aside from my mother teaching me grammar as a kid.

    • #5
    • October 28, 2016, at 6:05 PM PDT
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  6. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… Member

    Are Rob and Peter OK?

    They missed an obvious opportunity to interrupt James’ segue to the SaneBox commercial. It was well done by James, as always, but it was no less obvious than usual.

    Hey, I made the main podcast! Cool!

    I like Rob’s proposal of unconditional amnesty for all Republicans, but we should postpone it one day to 11-11 at 11 am, and call it the Armistice.

    I don’t take this to mean that we can’t discuss errors or lessons learned. But we should do our best to dispense with recriminations.

    • #6
    • October 28, 2016, at 7:40 PM PDT
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  7. SParker Member

    Jordaan002

    Pops said the true meaning of Katzenjammer was one of those hangovers where you regret everything you’ve ever done from conception to the present awful moment. (This can be approximated in English, but it requires a horn section.) I believe that’s the visual pun in this L. J. Jordaan cartoon (Sieg = victory; Vergelding = retribution.) But for the seriously unfortunate Nazi Goetzendammerung context it might be the appropriate sentiment for 10/10/2016 at 10 a.m. Pretty I’ll be experiencing it. And there’s the need to preempt someone going even lower in the Low Countries for:

    people-are-sharing-pictures-of-tintin-crying-in-r-2-9889-1458647474-10_dblbig

    and, of course, 10/10 is slang for “super insanely hot babe,” which is just confusing. Maybe Arizona Patriot is right on the Day of Forgiveness choice. Let 10/10 be a day of atonement for us all.

    • #7
    • October 28, 2016, at 10:42 PM PDT
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  8. BettyW Inactive

    Amnesty on 10/7/2016. 10/9/2016 will be too late.

    • #8
    • October 29, 2016, at 7:01 AM PDT
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  9. Profile Photo Member

    Peter,

    Can you still vote after ordering the absentee ballot? I don’t think you can do that in all states. (And there are good reasons. You’re absentee ballot could arrive at the election office at 2 pm on Election Day while you vote at 9 am.) You may be stuck with the absentee ballot now that you ordered it.

    • #9
    • October 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM PDT
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  10. Peter Robinson Founder

    Quinn the Eskimo:Peter,

    Can you still vote after ordering the absentee ballot? I don’t think you can do that in all states. (And there are good reasons. You’re absentee ballot could arrive at the election office at 2 pm on Election Day while you vote at 9 am.) You may be stuck with the absentee ballot now that you ordered it.

    I’ll have to double-check this, Quinn–and thanks for bringing it to my attention as we come down to the last week–but I believe the law here in California holds that, even after ordering an absentee ballot, the voter may still ignore that ballot, voting instead in the usual way on election day itself. But as I say, I’ll double check.

    • #10
    • October 29, 2016, at 10:06 AM PDT
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  11. Mitchell Morgan Inactive

    James has “The Jetsons” as a ringtone. Of course he does. :-D

    • #11
    • October 29, 2016, at 10:37 AM PDT
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  12. Profile Photo Member

    Peter Robinson: I’ll have to double-check this, Quinn–and thanks for bringing it to my attention as we come down to the last week–but I believe the law here in California holds that, even after ordering an absentee ballot, the voter may still ignore that ballot, voting instead in the usual way on election day itself. But as I say, I’ll double check.

    I suspect every state is different (Federalism!) but it could be a trap for the unwary. I was ordering an absentee ballot in my state (New Jersey) and I saw something to that effect.

    • #12
    • October 29, 2016, at 11:05 AM PDT
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  13. Israel P. Inactive

    @jameslileks @roblong – What about a popular victory for Hillary that resembles Al Gore’s?

    Vote Trump.

    • #13
    • October 29, 2016, at 12:13 PM PDT
    • Like
  14. James Lileks Contributor

    Mitchell Morgan: James has “The Jetsons” as a ringtone. Of course he does.

    I switch between that one and the phone from “In Like Flint.”

    • #14
    • October 29, 2016, at 1:32 PM PDT
    • Like
  15. EB Thatcher
    EB

    Quinn the Eskimo:Peter,

    Can you still vote after ordering the absentee ballot? I don’t think you can do that in all states. (And there are good reasons. You’re absentee ballot could arrive at the election office at 2 pm on Election Day while you vote at 9 am.) You may be stuck with the absentee ballot now that you ordered it.

    In Florida, you can. They like it better if you bring the “mail-in ballot” (which is what they call it now) with you, because then they don’t have to do a couple of extra steps.

    • #15
    • October 29, 2016, at 1:51 PM PDT
    • Like
  16. Petty Boozswha Inactive

    Lileks should donate his uncashed checks to the Ricochet Foundation, then Rob could cut back on his “Pay up you moochers!” harangues.

    • #16
    • October 29, 2016, at 3:09 PM PDT
    • Like
  17. The Cynthonian Member

    I live in Washington state, where vast numbers of Seattle urban hipsters, who adored Bernie, will still dutifully vote for HRC. Theoretically, I’m in one of those states that “doesn’t matter.” But when you all began discussing this, I started yelling at my computer.  “What about the popular vote total?” And then Rob said the same thing I was thinking. Not one extra vote to her.  I could not live with my conscience if I didn’t at least do this to stop that horrible, criminal Lady Macbeth redux. (And yes, I’ll be simultaneously holding my nose and trying to stanch the rising bile while I vote for Trump. MacMullin is not on the ballot here, and I’ve got some disagreements with him too.)

    Sidebar re David Frum: I’m not confusing him with David Brooks, but hasn’t he also spent most of the years since the Bush 43 administration criticizing Republicans? I haven’t read any of his stuff in years, as I’d written him off as “in transition” to the Dem side. Is he back in the Big Tent?

    • #17
    • October 30, 2016, at 12:41 AM PDT
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  18. Tedley Member

    James (@jameslileks), thanks for the reminder about the “In Like Flint” ringtone, I just added it to my smartphone.

    • #18
    • October 30, 2016, at 1:42 AM PDT
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  19. Tedley Member

    The Cynthonian: Sidebar re David Frum: I’m not confusing him with David Brooks, but hasn’t he also spent most of the years since the Bush 43 administration criticizing Republicans? I haven’t read any of his stuff in years, as I’d written him off as “in transition” to the Dem side. Is he back in the Big Tent?

    I’m with you on this, I remember Frum as having gone to the dark side.

    • #19
    • October 30, 2016, at 1:43 AM PDT
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  20. EB Thatcher
    EB

    Tedley: hasn’t he also spent most of the years since the Bush 43 administration criticizing Republicans?

    I actually thought that he started before Bush 43’s administration was over.

    • #20
    • October 30, 2016, at 5:59 AM PDT
    • Like
  21. John Russell Thatcher
    John Russell Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Rob called attention to the member post by Hustler46060, titled “Reconciliation.” The comment thread to that post leads me to propose a set of three premises on which both Reluctant Trump and McMullin voters might agree (full disclosure: I voted for McMullin). The split comes on which of two choices of a fourth premise carries the most weight. Thus I propose:

    1. Hillary Clinton is a proven despot;
    2. Donald Trump is, as yet, only a would-be despot;
    3. There is a near certainty that the next president of the United States will be either a proven despot or a would-be despot.

    One choice of fourth premise—4a, say—is: The only effect that a vote in the present election will have that matters is to nudge the outcome to either the proven despot or the would-be despot. Under premises 1,2,3, and 4a a vote for Trump is entirely defensible.

    Another choice of fourth premise—4b, say—is: A vote for a candidate is a contribution to the candidate’s electoral mandate in the event that the candidate wins. If the candidate is a despot—even only a would-be one at the time of the election—a vote for such a candidate is an affront to the idea of consensual government. Under premises 1,2 3, and 4b a vote for McMullin is entirely defensible.

    Given the defensibility of both positions I full support the proposal for unconditional amnesty proposed by Rob in this podcast.

    • #21
    • October 30, 2016, at 6:10 PM PDT
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  22. Steven Iverson Member

    David Frum believes new laws have to be written to make what the Clintons have done illegal? Is he kidding?

    I suggest he read Andrew McCarthy’s latest article “Clinton’s State Department: A RICO Enterprise.” The Clinton Foundation was a “de facto fraud scheme to monetize Hillary’s power as secretary of state . . . “

    • #22
    • October 31, 2016, at 12:43 AM PDT
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  23. Mate De Inactive

    Dumb question, but has it been verified that the Russians are the ones leaking the hacked information to Assange or are we just making assumptions based on the Clinton Campaign’s accusations?

    • #23
    • October 31, 2016, at 10:11 AM PDT
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  24. ToryWarWriter Thatcher

    I find it ironic that David Frum is going around talking about how we need to unify people, when it was he who on the pages of National Review read out people like myself who opposed the Iraq War. He call for moderation from the radicals is ironic given his total willingness to purge people out the party when it suited his purposes.

    • #24
    • October 31, 2016, at 11:09 AM PDT
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  25. Sabrdance Member

    Tedley:

    The Cynthonian: Sidebar re David Frum: I’m not confusing him with David Brooks, but hasn’t he also spent most of the years since the Bush 43 administration criticizing Republicans? I haven’t read any of his stuff in years, as I’d written him off as “in transition” to the Dem side. Is he back in the Big Tent?

    I’m with you on this, I remember Frum as having gone to the dark side.

    ToryWarWriter:I find it ironic that David Frum is going around talking about how we need to unify people, when it was he who on the pages of National Review read out people like myself who opposed the Iraq War. He call for moderation from the radicals is ironic given his total willingness to purge people out the party when it suited his purposes.

    Right. I don’t rate Frum that highly anymore because he’s turned his coat several times. At one point he was bragging about having provided two thirds of the phrase “Axis of Evil,” and whipping up support for the Iraq war, and then he was going on about how the Republicans need to modernize and abandon the very SoCons who floated him across the hard times of the Iraq War, which once it went south he promptly washed his hands of and left us holding the bag.

    And now he’s back. Because of course he is.

    • #25
    • October 31, 2016, at 8:40 PM PDT
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  26. Andrew Member

    So, to be clear, it is the position of both Rob Long and James Lileks that a President Hillary Clinton is preferable to a President Donald Trump, correct?

    • #26
    • October 31, 2016, at 10:25 PM PDT
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  27. MHillis Member

    I’m fine with Rob’s armistice after the election with two caveats:

    1. I want no part of the “alt right” white nationalist Trumpkins. That probably goes without saying here on Ricochet and I assume Rob takes that for granted, but I wanted to specify.

    2. I have zero qualms with Reluctant Trumpers but I think those people who supported Trump in the primary when other viable options remained should apologize. Apology or not, and even with an olive branch extended to all (non alt right), I will long question the judgement of anyone who supported Trump in the primary.

    • #27
    • November 1, 2016, at 3:03 PM PDT
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  28. Scott Wilmot Member

    steven Iverson:David Frum believes new laws have to be written to make what the Clintons have done illegal? Is he kidding?

    I suggest he read Andrew McCarthy’s latest article “Clinton’s State Department: A RICO Enterprise.” The Clinton Foundation was a “de facto fraud scheme to monetize Hillary’s power as secretary of state . . . ”

    Exactly. I guess I must be a rube because I have no clue who David Frum is but when I heard that I almost fell over. Others have also written that the CGI should be investigated under RICO laws.

    That Mr. Frum was not challenged on this was very disappointing. Come on boys (Peter, Rob, James), that was pathetic – especially with all the gushing done over the importance of Mr. Frum.

    Regards,

    A Rube

    • #28
    • November 1, 2016, at 3:43 PM PDT
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  29. Blue Yeti Admin

    Scott Wilmot:Exactly. I guess I must be a rube because I have no clue who David Frum is but when I heard that I almost fell over. Others have also written that the CGI should be investigated under RICO laws.

    That Mr. Frum was not challenged on this was very disappointing. Come on boys (Peter, Rob, James), that was pathetic – especially with all the gushing done over the importance of Mr. Frum.

    Regards,

    A Rube

    It’s a fair point. We’ll try and do better.

    • #29
    • November 1, 2016, at 4:29 PM PDT
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  30. Scott Wilmot Member

    Blue Yeti: It’s a fair point. We’ll try and do better.

    Thank you – I appreciate the response.

    • #30
    • November 1, 2016, at 4:50 PM PDT
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