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To mark this historical day, we’ve assembled a panel that we think reflects all sides of the new Trump administration — a mashup of the Ricochet Podcast and Need To Know with Charen and Nordlinger with a dash of Victor Davis Hanson thrown in for flavoring. It’s a bracing conversation that really gets into the weeds on the election and what may lie ahead.
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Truth.
I’m still a bit dizzy from the intellectual whiplash that generally accompanies any conversation between Jay and Mona (ricochet portmanteau “Monjay, ”?) and VDH. Trump’s authoritarian tendencies, pathologic narcissism, petty vindictiveness, aggressive ignorance on policy, and incomprehension of conservatism must place him outside the bounds of support. And yet, when left with the choice of Hillary Clinton, clearly he is the lesser of two evils.
How can people with whom I consistently agree come down on irreconcilably different sides of this argument? My tentative explanation is thus. With Donald Trump, we have a man who presents such a diverse array of positions and attitudes, that any attempt to draw a coherent worldview requires a selective sampling of the data. Is Donald Trump a blunt, bombastic, man of the people who is fairly conservative, or at least anti-liberal? You can find dozens of quotes and clips. Prefer to see Trump as an authoritarian? Plenty of evidence. A buffoonish carnival barker? Well documented. Given all this, it’s probably unavoidable that people of good will and similar philosophical outlooks will come to varying conclusions by emphasizing certain aspects of the man while minimizing others.
So, maybe it’s time to simply take a “time out” and admit that we just don’t know.
Any politician that can bring VDH and Mona Charen to diametrically opposed views is good for thought-provoking podcasts, at least.
Can someone please explain to me why this podcast was posted under Need to Know AND The Ricochet Podcast?
I’ve just now tripped upon these comments – recognizing a few, most of them new, and my comments nowhere to be found.
Because I was over at NTK (where I NEVER am) while all the cool kids were hanging out here.
Typical.
A podcast’s got to know its limitations.
It was a combined show and many NTK listeners are not subscribed to the Ricochet Podcast. It’s also why Mona read the Zip Recruiter spot.
That’s because a request for a special code of conduct for commentators wasn’t made. There were multiple direct implications that the existing code of conduct should somehow apply to commentators on podcasts (simply because particular commentators dare to have a negative viewpoint towards Donald Trump)…ludicrous.
How about we sit back, stop biting his ankles and give him a chance to show us what he’s going to do.
So far between the cabinet appointments, his meetings with business and labor, and the EO’s I’m pretty satisfied.
Nice parsing. So here’s one back at you. If there is “a code of conduct for commentators on podcasts” that does not apply to members in the posts, doesn’t that make it a special code of conduct? Or would singular code of conduct be good? Tell me, what is your descriptor?
Or ignoring all of that, where in the comments did someone ask for “a code of conduct for commentators on podcasts”? Other than wondering if the general CoC applied.
Edited because I hit the enter button accidently before I was done.
I had the same reaction to Jay and Mona.
In comment #35, I referred to Jay and “his fellow anti-Trumpers… rioting and burning on the streets of our nation’s capitol,” which some have taken offense to. I just had the image of Nordlinger rampaging down J street, smashing windows, flipping cars, and lighting fires in full Anarchist regalia.
Then he returns home to his study, dons his comfortable slippers, sipping a sherry (Amontillado certainly), with a Bach sonata playing, as he composes his next philippic against Trumpism
Dude, to use the word “vicious” to describe Jay Nordlinger is pretty laughable.
I don’t know, you’ve never seen Gangsta Jay and his side-girl Mona.
You never know who’s really vicious until they come into power. Like this guy:
Due to the intelligence of all these comments I am relistening to the podcast.
One particular part jumped out at me: around 34:03 when VDH is trying to explain Trump’s negotiating style; go big, then back off but get what you want. (we won’t deport everyone, how about the 2,000,000 felons.)
James: What does it do long term to the political climate if we become accustomed to people saying extreme outragous things?
VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?
And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 9-11 in the streets. How about that?”
You know why I think this is worth pointing out? Because thousands and thousands of Muslims DID celebrate in the streets. I would go so far as to estimate hundreds of thousands. But not here – in the countries from which we are allowing refugees and immigrants.
Were I VDH I wouldn’t have responded with examples of how Obama was similarly over the top. But I’m not VDH … more’s the pity.
Fantastic podcast.
Edit: Corrected 7-11 to 9-11.
Just got to the end of Mona’s monologue for the second time. I’ve made some similar comments on the comment thread of the NTK podcast.
I think Mona threw up some real straw men. I’ve never heard “zero sum gain” from Trump. I’ve never heard him say that Washington DC thrived BECAUSE others were suffering – although frankly that argument can be made as all those regulators and lobbiests are making laws and rules that punish others and those regulators and lobbiests are getting paid very well. But it’s certainly not a direct transfer of wealth.
Mona just doesn’t like Trump and interprets everything Trump has said in the worst possible light (and she might be right; we’ll see) . But this has been one of the most infuriating qualities of this election season: opinions and predictions stated as fact with a sneering tone that we’re all idiots to not agree. (Irony: we all who would have walked over broken glass to keep HRC from the White House knew damn well what she is capable of because she’d actually DONE them)
VDH hinted but I’ll say it: all politicians lie. Mona prefers her liars to have some more polish and be one of “her people”.
And one last comment; Jay’s concerns about not being able to be honest and speak his mind as a journalist.
I wasn’t clear on what has happened and why he thinks that is now the case with a Trump presidency?
Peter went on in great length agreeing with Jay with the constant qualifier of “if … if … if”.
Of course no one wants to live in a world where freedom of speech has been curtailed (and God knows we all have examples of how that has, in fact, happened in the past 8 years) Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.
Trump has been very rough on the press these past couple of days but in all cases it’s been deserved. Let’s wait and see how he handles a press corps that hasn’t destroyed its own credibility.
Muslims love Slurpees! So what?
So kind of you to point out my typo. My gratitude knows no bounds.
I was kidding. Gotta keep our sense of humor. Now more than ever.
I wager if Jay walked in the streets of New York in a pro Clinton hat or an anti-Trump hat, he would be safer than walking in a Pro-Trump hat.
Agreed. Jay (and others; it’s not unique to him) seem to believe that they are they only ones having bad experiences. Hah!
I think what Mona was referencing was when Trump said he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey. Mona didn’t say New Jersey, but I’m sure that’s what she meant since we have all seen the video of the Muslims celebrating on 9/11 in Palestine.
Agreed. I knew what Mona was talking about . On the 2nd hearing it struck me there was a point to be made about immigration.
Jay Nordlinger is ranting endlessly against Trump on Twitter. At least the rest of the staff at NR is giving it a rest.
Of course no one wants to live in a world where freedom of speech has been curtailed (and God knows we all have examples of how that has, in fact, happened in the past 8 years) Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.
Given I live in a country where freedom of speech is curtailed I can say it *blank*.
Probably because of the death threats.
My impression has been those on both sides have suffered threats. Maybe it’s a dangerous time for all (I don’t believe that) but Jay singled out criticizing Trump as being dangerous (not sure he used that word)
Was he implying that the Trump administration is to be feared?
Just scanned his Twitter feed. My suspicions about him have been confirmed. No need to re listen to podcasts to figure him out.
Maybe Jay is positioning himself for the “acceptable conservative” seat at the New York Times when David Brooks retires.
I think Jay has never learned the rule “don’t feed the trolls.” I’m pretty sure he’s infuriated at the alt-right nerds that flood his inbox and they are ecstatic that they can still get such a rise out of him.
Jay’s pretty snippy. I recall checking out his podcast early on but it didn’t grab me. I come here for good nature, humor, wit and a little clever snark, no matter the opinion or disagreement. That dude’s shoes are too tight. No room for that at Ricochet.
Still better than Ann Coulter.