Debate The Debate

This week, Bolton bolts, we debate the debate with The Washington Post’s Henry Olsen, kick around the culture with The Atlantic’s Andrew Ferguson, we’ve got a new Long Poll question for you (but you have to be a Ricochet member to vote), Lileks awards the coveted Member Post of The Week, and some thoughts on the 18th anniversary of 9/11.

Music from this week’s show: My City of Ruins by Bruce Springsteen

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There are 96 comments.

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  1. ToryWarWriter Coolidge
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    I am still listening to the podcast but I had to stop and say the following.

    First @roblong is completely right when he made the comparison to Nazis and Germany and Japan.

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan.  Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan.  I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

     

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2#-6

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#30

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIbdE2A7cc

    • #61
  2. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan. Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan. I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

    I wasn’t talking about Kabul. I was talking about the outlands. 

    • #62
  3. rdowhower Member
    rdowhower
    @

    Ferguson is just another example of someone who can’t accept the fact that he no longer has influence and he of course blames it all on Trump.  He also strikes me as a-moral, as in not being at all interested in public morality, which is rich when he says how awful the president is.  Am I offended by how  easily he uses “Jesus” to express his exasperation?  No, but it does show what type of conservative he is, which is the exactly the kind that got us to where we are today in a continual, slouch leftward.  So go on, write for the soulless Atlantic which is of course telling that they were willing to take him on but jettisoned Kevin Williamson because he actually believes in something, and come on to Ricochet where your old pals will praise and make you feel good about yourself.  Please.

    • #63
  4. Max Ledoux Coolidge
    Max Ledoux
    @Max

    Beto and Julian have 0%. 🤣

    • #64
  5. Max Ledoux Coolidge
    Max Ledoux
    @Max

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I am still listening to the podcast but I had to stop and say the following.

    First @roblong is completely right when he made the comparison to Nazis and Germany and Japan.

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan. Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan. I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

     

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2#-6

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#30

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIbdE2A7cc

    OK. Name an Afghani artist, author, musician, etc.

    • #65
  6. Eustace C. Scrubb Member
    Eustace C. Scrubb
    @EustaceCScrubb

    Max Ledoux

    Beto and Julian have 0%. 🤣

    Because the poll can’t do negative numbers.

    • #66
  7. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan. Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan. I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

    I wasn’t talking about Kabul. I was talking about the outlands.

    @torywarwriter accidentally fell into a typical progressive trope, in which bad conditions in a Third World country are blamed on Western colonialists — no matter how many generations ago the colonialists left. 

    • #67
  8. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Doesn’t anyone else think Rob Long looks like Newt Gingrich in the podcast photo?

    • #68
  9. LibertyDefender Member
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Doesn’t anyone else think Rob Long looks like Newt Gingrich in the podcast photo?

    I see Jonathan Winters, Dustin Hoffman, and [edit] Tim Conway Henry Gibson.

    But what movie included those three?

    • #69
  10. Matt Bartle Member
    Matt Bartle
    @MattBartle

    I confess I have no idea who Malcolm Gladwell is.

    • #70
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    How long has Peter been suffering from Tourettes?

    • #71
  12. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Matt Bartle (View Comment):

    I confess I have no idea who Malcolm Gladwell is.

    I think he’s drowned in a butt of Malmsey in Shakespeare’s Henry V, Part II.

    • #72
  13. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    @peterrobinson, I think you need to use soap with your quip, rather than toothpaste for a few days.

    As for writer’s block, I could give you at least a dozen suggestions that might help.

     

    • #73
  14. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Taras (View Comment):

    Matt Bartle (View Comment):

    I confess I have no idea who Malcolm Gladwell is.

    I think he’s drowned in a butt of Malmsey in Shakespeare’s Henry V, Part II.

    I confess I have no idea what a “butt of Malmsey” is.

    • #74
  15. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Matt Bartle (View Comment):

    I confess I have no idea who Malcolm Gladwell is.

    I think he’s drowned in a butt of Malmsey in Shakespeare’s Henry V, Part II.

    I confess I have no idea what a “butt of Malmsey” is.

    A butt is an old measure about 130 US gallons. Malmsey is a type of wine. This refers to how George, Duke of Clarence supposedly died.

    • #75
  16. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Arahant (View Comment):

    A butt is an old measure about 130 US gallons. Malmsey is a type of wine. This refers to how George, Duke of Clarence supposedly died.

    Ah, so that must be what Sir Mix-A-Lot was rapping about, the man loves his Malmsey!

    • #76
  17. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):
    Ah, so that must be what Sir Mix-A-Lot was rapping about, the man loves his Malmsey!

    Well, he might have had a different drink in his butts. Courvoisier, perhaps?

    • #77
  18. WilliamDean Coolidge
    WilliamDean
    @WilliamDean

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Joseph Stanko (View Comment):
    Ah, so that must be what Sir Mix-A-Lot was rapping about, the man loves his Malmsey!

    Well, he might have had a different drink in his butts. Courvoisier, perhaps?

    It was Sir Mix-A-Lot. You sure it wasn’t a butt in his drink?

    • #78
  19. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    WilliamDean (View Comment):
    It was Sir Mix-A-Lot. You sure it wasn’t a butt in his drink?

    That would work, too.

    • #79
  20. J Ro Member
    J Ro
    @JRo

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I am still listening to the podcast but I had to stop and say the following.

    First @roblong is completely right when he made the comparison to Nazis and Germany and Japan.

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan. Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan. I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2#-6

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#30

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIbdE2A7cc

    OK. Name an Afghani artist, author, musician, etc.

    I love hearing some Afghan music, especially performed live, but

    Google “Afghan music” — 77,300,000 results

    Google “Sir Mix-A-Lot” — 74,000,000 results

     

    • #80
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    J Ro (View Comment):

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I am still listening to the podcast but I had to stop and say the following.

    First @roblong is completely right when he made the comparison to Nazis and Germany and Japan.

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan. Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan. I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2#-6

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#30

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIbdE2A7cc

    OK. Name an Afghani artist, author, musician, etc.

    I love hearing some Afghan music, especially performed live, but

    Google “Afghan music” — 77,300,000 results

    Google “Sir Mix-A-Lot” — 74,000,000 results

    Which doesn’t necessarily mean as much as you might think.  That doesn’t somehow prove there’s 77 million Afghan songs, for example, and only 74 thousand by Sir Mix-A-Lot.  It just counts “mentions” basically, which could be anything.

    And “Afghan music” could be songs about knitted quilts…

    • #81
  22. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    kedavis (View Comment):

    J Ro (View Comment):

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    I am still listening to the podcast but I had to stop and say the following.

    First @roblong is completely right when he made the comparison to Nazis and Germany and Japan.

    @jameslileks is speaking out of ignorance and bigotry when he says there was no culture in Afghanistan. Its a place that has a civilization going back thousands of years and was basically the equal to a Saudi Arabia or Iraq level of civilization right up until the Soviets and later decades of civil war have led to there country.

    Rob is right the occupation of Afghanistan is a level of the Marshal plan. I would suggest James go out and educate himself a little before speaking in such vehemently ignorant bigoted stuff.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2#-6

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/1960s-afghanistan#30

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIbdE2A7cc

    OK. Name an Afghani artist, author, musician, etc.

    I love hearing some Afghan music, especially performed live, but

    Google “Afghan music” — 77,300,000 results

    Google “Sir Mix-A-Lot” — 74,000,000 results

    Which doesn’t necessarily mean as much as you might think. That doesn’t somehow prove there’s 77 million Afghan songs, for example, and only 74 thousand by Sir Mix-A-Lot. It just counts “mentions” basically, which could be anything.

    @kevadis

    That 

     

    is a totally legitimate point. It is also a legitimate to point out that the wealth and technological advancement of the West let a minority Westerner succeed more than an entire country of musicians. It’s quite probable that there are dozens of Afghani musicians more talented than Mr. Mix-A-Lot. But the USA was able to let some random dude thrive in our society. That’s the big the point. 

    But I must admit my bias. I do happen to agree with Mr. Mix-A-Lot in some of his aesthetic preferences so I do love his thriving more than if I were a music nerd who spent hours listening to Afghani pop. 

    • #82
  23. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I do happen to agree with Mr. Mix-A-Lot in some of his aesthetic preferences so I do love his thriving more than if I were a music nerd who spent hours listening to Afghani pop.

    Where for love songs they sing of young boys with backsides like peaches…

    • #83
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I do happen to agree with Mr. Mix-A-Lot in some of his aesthetic preferences so I do love his thriving more than if I were a music nerd who spent hours listening to Afghani pop.

    Where for love songs they sing of young boys with backsides like peaches…

    I’m sure our friends on the left will discuss this toxic masculinity in one of their Ted Talks. 

    • #84
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I do happen to agree with Mr. Mix-A-Lot in some of his aesthetic preferences so I do love his thriving more than if I were a music nerd who spent hours listening to Afghani pop.

    Where for love songs they sing of young boys with backsides like peaches…

    I’m sure our friends on the left will discuss this toxic masculinity in one of their Ted Talks.

    Not if it involves Islam.

    • #85
  26. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Not if it involves Islam.

    But, but, it’s LGBTQcetera.

    • #86
  27. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I do happen to agree with Mr. Mix-A-Lot in some of his aesthetic preferences so I do love his thriving more than if I were a music nerd who spent hours listening to Afghani pop.

    Where for love songs they sing of young boys with backsides like peaches…

    I’m sure our friends on the left will discuss this toxic masculinity in one of their Ted Talks.

    Not if it involves Islam.

    Actually, just tell them the Afghans are Catholic priests in disguise. Then it will get discussed.

    • #87
  28. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Arahant (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    I do happen to agree with Mr. Mix-A-Lot in some of his aesthetic preferences so I do love his thriving more than if I were a music nerd who spent hours listening to Afghani pop.

    Where for love songs they sing of young boys with backsides like peaches…

    I’m sure our friends on the left will discuss this toxic masculinity in one of their Ted Talks.

    Not if it involves Islam.

    Actually, just tell them the Afghans are Catholic priests in disguise. Then it will get discussed.

    We should be discussing the Afghani dancing boys and Catholic priests in the same breath.

    In a similar fashion, I wish to speak of Justin Trudeau’s brownface on a fair and equal playing field as… say, Dave Chapelle making jokes about how the different Alphabet groups don’t get along. Lets try to get everything to one standard. Isn’t that what we all want?

    • #88
  29. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Arahant (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Not if it involves Islam.

    But, but, it’s LGBTQcetera.

    But the Q there doesn’t stand for Quran.

    • #89
  30. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But the Q there doesn’t stand for Quran.

    No, but pederasty might be seen as in one or more of those categories.

    • #90
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