500: Lick The Sugar

Milestones — they seem so important when they’re far away and then you arrive at them and then it suddenly doesn’t seem such a big deal. At the start of the year, we had some big plans to mark this achievement (if that’s what you can call it), but then the lockdown happened, and well, the rest is…But, don’t fear — we actually put together a great show with a great guest: Roland Fryer, Professor of Economics at Harvard  –making his Ricochet Podcast debut. His studies on changing the behavior of cops and racial differences in police use of deadly force are the gold standard and are used by police departments all over the world to write policies on training and engagement with civilians. It’s a fascinating conversation. We also do some reminiscing, some teasing, and some looking ahead to the next 500 (!) shows. Thanks for listening, sticking with us, and for all the thousands of great comments. We’ll do this again in 2030.

Music from this week’s show: The Proclaimers – I’m Gonna Be (500 Miles)

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  1. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    The Cynthonian (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m confused.

    The Post Of The Week has 4 likes.

    Four.

    Uh.

    What?

    Yes, there are 132 comments. Most of which are about showing how Gary is wrong about… well, damn near everything.

    Huh?

    Was it really just about “dogs presidents playing poker?”

    Edit: I checked, and Gary’s previous (first) Post Of The Week, 7 months ago, has… 4 likes.

    I think it’s a perfect illustration of James’ esoteric tastes.

    Maybe we should have a post of the month by the members of Ricochet for the members of Ricochet. 

    • #61
  2. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    The Cynthonian (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m confused.

    The Post Of The Week has 4 likes.

    Four.

    Uh.

    What?

    Yes, there are 132 comments. Most of which are about showing how Gary is wrong about… well, damn near everything.

    Huh?

    Was it really just about “dogs presidents playing poker?”

    Edit: I checked, and Gary’s previous (first) Post Of The Week, 7 months ago, has… 4 likes.

    I think it’s a perfect illustration of James’ esoteric tastes.

    Maybe we should have a post of the month by the members of Ricochet for the members of Ricochet.

    In my opinion, it should be used as a marketing tool, mostly.

    • #62
  3. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    The Cynthonian (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m confused.

    The Post Of The Week has 4 likes.

    Four.

    Uh.

    What?

    Yes, there are 132 comments. Most of which are about showing how Gary is wrong about… well, damn near everything.

    Huh?

    Was it really just about “dogs presidents playing poker?”

    Edit: I checked, and Gary’s previous (first) Post Of The Week, 7 months ago, has… 4 likes.

    I think it’s a perfect illustration of James’ esoteric tastes.

    Maybe we should have a post of the month by the members of Ricochet for the members of Ricochet.

    Well, post of the WEEK rather than MONTH isn’t a bad idea.  But… a post of the week with 4 likes?  c’mon.

    • #63
  4. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    Watch out Rob. Your governor is calling you out. What did Rob call it, a walktini?

    “People with open containers in the street can be fined.”

    • #64
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    Watch out Rob. Your governor is calling you out. What did Rob call it, a walktini?

    “People with open containers in the street can be fined.”

    Walktail.

    • #65
  6. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    Watch out Rob. Your governor is calling you out. What did Rob call it, a walktini?

    “People with open containers in the street can be fined.”

    Walktail.

    That makes more sense. 

    • #66
  7. ericB Lincoln
    ericB
    @ericB

    kedavis (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Missed opportunity – should have had Ricochet Advertisers on the Suits/Cars

    What? I see them. At least some. Freshly for example, front and center. On James.

    And “NUTRAFOL” on Peter.

    • #67
  8. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    ericB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Missed opportunity – should have had Ricochet Advertisers on the Suits/Cars

    What? I see them. At least some. Freshly for example, front and center. On James.

    And “NUTRAFOL” on Peter.

    Which is either funny or the best marketing ploy, since he seems to be the one who needs it least.

    • #68
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Arahant (View Comment):

    ericB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Missed opportunity – should have had Ricochet Advertisers on the Suits/Cars

    What? I see them. At least some. Freshly for example, front and center. On James.

    And “NUTRAFOL” on Peter.

    Which is either funny or the best marketing ploy, since he seems to be the one who needs it least.

    Maybe they’re placing him as the “after” model, the “success story?”

    • #69
  10. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Arahant (View Comment):

    ericB (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    GlennAmurgis (View Comment):

    Missed opportunity – should have had Ricochet Advertisers on the Suits/Cars

    What? I see them. At least some. Freshly for example, front and center. On James.

    And “NUTRAFOL” on Peter.

    Which is either funny or the best marketing ploy, since he seems to be the one who needs it least.

    Maybe they’re placing him as the “after” model, the “success story?”

    Ya, see above.

    • #70
  11. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    How progressive are New York police captains and police unions?

    It seems to me that the disparity of restrictions involving crowds — one set of rules for BLM protestors and one set of rules for everybody else — is easily solved by police officers sensibly prioritizing real crimes over enforcement of petty political whims. 

    Whatever the mayor and governor want, police departments can refuse to treat different crowds by different standards. 

    • #71
  12. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Because the Supreme Court has, largely by chance, remained in the hands of Republicans for so many years, anti-Trumpers like Rob Long come across as obtuse.

    For example, Rob speaks of there being no significant issues in the election of 2000 when, as always, the Supreme Court was in play. 

    With progressives taking over the reins from the old-style liberals on the Court, I shudder to think what kind of social engineering and rewriting of the Constitution will take place the next time the Democrats get control.  (A racial caste system, anyone?)

    This is probably the reason Justice Anthony Kennedy retired when he did, permitting Donald Trump and the Republican Senate to select his successor, thereby protecting the Constitution for a few more years.

    • #72
  13. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    If in a particular area a police officer rationally identifies a pattern that black suspects tend to resist, tend to be possess weapons, tend to destroy drugs or other evidence, or for whatever reason often merit aggressive seizure, then the police officers might simply be playing the odds for that area.

    This is the kind of thing I was also thinking about, when I mentioned that it’s not a “static” thing.

    Policemen have a saying, “Better tried by twelve than carried by six.”

    A policeman knows that a random black male motorist is going to be several times more dangerous to him than a random white male motorist.

    Because of the much higher crime rate in the black community, the black motorist is more likely to have illegal drugs in his car, more likely to have an illegal gun, more likely to be a fugitive, more likely to be violating probation or parole, more likely to have a criminal record.

    If he’s a two-time loser, for example, he knows that, if he’s caught with drugs or a gun, it’s his third felony and he goes to prison for life.  On the other hand, if he kills the patrolman he goes to prison for life, too – but only if they catch him!

    As a result, when a traffic cop pulls somebody over for speeding at night and, as he gets closer, he realizes the driver is a black male — the cop takes a step back, his heart rate soars, and he puts his hand on his gun.  I would expect even a black traffic cop to react this way.

    • #73
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Aaron Miller (View Comment):
    It seems to me that the disparity of restrictions involving crowds — one set of rules for BLM protestors and one set of rules for everybody else

     

     

     

    • #74
  15. Kim K. Inactive
    Kim K.
    @KimK

    I was listening to this while doing something else, so maybe I heard wrong….but. The guest made a pretty big deal out of the 53% statistic on blacks being the recipients of excessive force by police. Which is a big deal. Then Peter tried in an oh-so-delicate way to ask if maybe there was a possibility that excessive force may in some ways be necessary or perhaps based on something other than the person’s race. The guest said “yes….and no,” and then proceeded to explain about his millions of bits of data, etc, etc, etc, finally admitting that after a lot of controlling the 53% number was greatly reduced – but not completely eliminated. Ok, was it reduced to 40%? 25% 12% 2%. None of those means it wouldn’t be a problem if black people were still policed worse. 

    But still….if your big headline number is 53% and then you admit, only after questioning, that the percentage may actually be quite a bit lower? That is what makes people distrust you.

    • #75
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Kim K. (View Comment):

    I was listening to this while doing something else, so maybe I heard wrong….but. The guest made a pretty big deal out of the 53% statistic on blacks being the recipients of excessive force by police. Which is a big deal. Then Peter tried in an oh-so-delicate way to ask if maybe there was a possibility that excessive force may in some ways be necessary or perhaps based on something other than the person’s race. The guest said “yes….and no,” and then proceeded to explain about his millions of bits of data, etc, etc, etc, finally admitting that after a lot of controlling the 53% number was greatly reduced – but not completely eliminated. Ok, was it reduced to 40%? 25% 12% 2%. None of those means it wouldn’t be a problem if black people were still policed worse.

    But still….if your big headline number is 53% and then you admit, only after questioning, that the percentage may actually be quite a bit lower? That is what makes people distrust you.

    And even if that final number isn’t actually zero, the previous “adjustments” would seem to explain why imperfect people would do things based on experience, instinct, and perhaps even self-preservation.

    Just for a simple example, if I knew that there was, say, a 1% change of any particular person I encountered, maybe injuring or killing me, and my options were to treat EVERYONE with “excess caution,” or treat NO ONE with “excess caution,” I would go with treating EVERYONE with “excess caution,” “every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.”

     

    • #76
  17. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

     

     

     

     

    • #77
  18. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    So, my apologies for coming to the discussion late and I don’t know (and haven’t read all the comments) if it’s been asked or raised, but if it’s a given based on Prof. Fryer’s “raw data” that black men and young men are roughed up by police how many of those police officers are black themselves? I ask because most of the major metropolitan police forces in America – have a substantial number of black police officers – especially in the Midwest, the South, and on the East Coast. Until we know the answer to that question, the raw data implies “racism” when racism may not be a factor at all.

    • #78
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Brian Watt (View Comment):

    So, my apologies for coming to the discussion late and I don’t know (and haven’t read all the comments) if it’s been asked or raised, but if it’s a given based on Prof. Fryer’s “raw data” that black men and young men are roughed up by police how many of those police officers are black themselves? I ask because most of the major metropolitan police forces in America – have a substantial number of black police officers – especially in the Midwest, the South, and on the East Coast. Until we know the answer to that question, the raw data implies “racism” when racism may not be a factor at all.

    I also want a definition of “roughed up.”

    • #79
  20. J Ro Member
    J Ro
    @JRo

    More data from Professor Fryer:

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/harvard-professors-research-defunding-the-police-could-cost-thousands-of-black-lives/

    • #80
  21. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    J Ro (View Comment):

    More data from Professor Fryer:

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/harvard-professors-research-defunding-the-police-could-cost-thousands-of-black-lives/

    The political activists and the street criminals in the black community — often the same people — want the police out; while the victimized silent majority of blacks wants more policing, not less.

    • #81
  22. Kevin Creighton Contributor
    Kevin Creighton
    @KevinCreighton

    All these comments, and nobody has pointed out how the Indy 500 logo was used in front of what are CLEARLY not open-wheel Indy Car racing cars? :)

    • #82
  23. RPD Inactive
    RPD
    @RPD

    Kevin Creighton (View Comment):

    All these comments, and nobody has pointed out how the Indy 500 logo was used in front of what are CLEARLY not open-wheel Indy Car racing cars? :)

    You are mistaken. The logo was adapted from the Daytona 500 NASCAR race. The Indy logo uses different colors and shapes.

    • #83
  24. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    For some reason, I love the phrase, “Disobedient Jews!”

    If I were remotely Jewish, I would wear “Disobedient Jew” as a button and a bumper sticker.

    Unfortunately my sister did a DNA thing and our family came back as Boring, Humdrum Slav.

    Oh, well.  May a million Disobedient Jews bloom!

    • #84
  25. Kevin Inactive
    Kevin
    @JaredSturgeon

    It was cringe listening to the white conservative hosts beg for permission from the black guest to talk about race. What’s coming after conservatism’s – we don’t give a beep about being called racists because we have been since grade school.

    I question the guests findings.  I trained in a related field and the model determines the outcome.  In sociology they make the theoretical assumption that fathers add nothing but economic benefit and so their models are designed so that the father is basically removed from the model and the chain of causality.  I suspect the guests models work the same.  Since they are snapshots and causality is not known lots of collinear terms are removed by the assumptions of the theoretical model leaving race as the explanatory variable when the model could be constructed to show propensity for violence, low time horizon preference, impulsiveness, fatherlessness, etc are all driving the model.  The data doesn’t give us answers, it allows us to make models which have theoretical assumptions.  I hope he published all the models used with robustness analysis.

    Not that racism could not be alive and well and a partial explanation.  Its a natural human trait and our modern obsession with it is craven.   We should work against it but not obsess about it.  Every dollar spent fighting racism gets us about 1 cent of public good so the efforts are much better spent fixing other problems like looting and lawlessness and fatherlessness.

    • #85
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Kevin (View Comment):

    It was cringe listening to the white conservative hosts beg for permission from the black guest to talk about race. What’s coming after conservatism’s – we don’t give a beep about being called racists because we have been since grade school.

    I question the guests findings. I trained in a related field and the model determines the outcome. In sociology they make the theoretical assumption that fathers add nothing but economic benefit and so their models are designed so that the father is basically removed from the model and the chain of causality. I suspect the guests models work the same. Since they are snapshots and causality is not known lots of collinear terms are removed by the assumptions of the theoretical model leaving race as the explanatory variable when the model could be constructed to show propensity for violence, low time horizon preference, impulsiveness, fatherlessness, etc are all driving the model. The data doesn’t give us answers, it allows us to make models which have theoretical assumptions. I hope he published all the models used with robustness analysis.

    Not that racism could not be alive and well and a partial explanation. Its a natural human trait and our modern obsession with it is craven. We should work against it but not obsess about it. Every dollar spent fighting racism gets us about 1 cent of public good so the efforts are much better spent fixing other problems like looting and lawlessness and fatherlessness.

    It’s another angle on what I mentioned about sociologists especially, claiming their studies “control for” one thing or another.  It’s really just BS from top to bottom.

    • #86
  27. Elaine Minamide Inactive
    Elaine Minamide
    @EEM

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Did I hear that right?

    “And Andrew Breitbart was at the 250th episode anniversary party too!” – James Lileks

    Fact Check: False. Episode 250 was Feb 19, 2015. Andrew died March 1, 2012.

    This is correct, Andrew was not at this event. Rob is confusing it with another event that was not a Ricochet event — it was an event for an L.A. Conservative group we did a live version of the Ricochet Podcast at.

    That said, the episode we did immediately after Andrew’s death was one of my favorites. Perhaps one of you can find it.

    Andrew was an early and strong supporter of Ricochet. He came on the show often in those early days and his guest segments were alway fun and unpredictable. More importantly, Andrew let us post the podcast on Breitbart.com, which was (and still is) a much bigger site than ours. It was incredibly generous and was extremely helpful in getting the word out about Ricochet. Miss that guy.

    Me too. I’d love to hear that podcast. 

    • #87
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Elaine Minamide (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Did I hear that right?

    “And Andrew Breitbart was at the 250th episode anniversary party too!” – James Lileks

    Fact Check: False. Episode 250 was Feb 19, 2015. Andrew died March 1, 2012.

    This is correct, Andrew was not at this event. Rob is confusing it with another event that was not a Ricochet event — it was an event for an L.A. Conservative group we did a live version of the Ricochet Podcast at.

    That said, the episode we did immediately after Andrew’s death was one of my favorites. Perhaps one of you can find it.

    Andrew was an early and strong supporter of Ricochet. He came on the show often in those early days and his guest segments were alway fun and unpredictable. More importantly, Andrew let us post the podcast on Breitbart.com, which was (and still is) a much bigger site than ours. It was incredibly generous and was extremely helpful in getting the word out about Ricochet. Miss that guy.

    Me too. I’d love to hear that podcast.

    It was March 2, 2012.  Podcast #108.  One of the oldies with Jonah instead of Peter.

    That one doesn’t appear to be available for download on the site any more, but here you go:

    https://www.adrive.com/public/Pdcyuh/Ricochet%20Podcast%2003-02-12%20Andrew.mp3

    • #88
  29. Elaine Minamide Inactive
    Elaine Minamide
    @EEM

    Wow.

    Thanks.

    • #89
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Elaine Minamide (View Comment):

    Wow.

    Thanks.

    You’re very welcome.  I’ve saved them all, going back to #1.

    • #90
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