After filing a more-spirited-than-average G-File, Jonah joins us for the weekend Ruminant. Today, he talks about how certain individuals associated with Trump seem determined to end their careers in ignominy, as well as discussing many other phenomena, such as America’s oversaturation of elites, the necessity of reading people with whom you disagree, the inadequacy of applying the left-right spectrum to American politics, what the possible consolidation of fringe-right news stations might look like, and how genuine post-Trump conservatism “is almost, in certain way, the same as [if it was] pre-Trump.” And, of course, the most exciting news in Jonah’s world right now? How a calmer political environment means that he can write about more interesting stuff.

 

Show Notes:

This week’s G-File

Tucker Carlson almost closes the circle, but doesn’t make it quite there

The entire Dispatch team descends on the Cuomo Emmy news

The “Iron Law of Oligarchy”

The midweek “news”letter

A legendary piece of Goldbergian hagiography – Gargoyles: Guardians of the Gate

The quotable Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There are 23 comments.

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  1. Franz Drumlin Member

    I really wish Jonah Goldberg would stop trashing President Trump. He’s been at it since – I don’t know – 2016? I mean, every podcast! At least every one I’ve listened to and I’ve listened to them all. The Remnant, GLoP Culture, you name it. I’m getting tired of hearing it. Three times a week, year after year after year. I just wish he’d stop.

    • #1
    • November 21, 2020, at 10:36 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  2. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… Coolidge

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    I really wish Jonah Goldberg would stop trashing President Trump. He’s been at it since – I don’t know – 2016? I mean, every podcast! At least every one I’ve listened to and I’ve listened to them all. The Remnant, GLoP Culture, you name it. I’m getting tired of hearing it. Three times a week, year after year after year. I just wish he’d stop.

    Well, he says that now he can talk about other things. As if somehow the existence of President Trump prevented him from talking about anything else. It was all Trump’s fault, you see. Were it not for the Bad Orange Man, Jonah could have had other things to say. But that darn Trump just wouldn’t stop existing!

    (What’s the psychological term for blaming others for one’s own weird obsessions?)

    • #2
    • November 21, 2020, at 12:11 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… Coolidge

    Today, he talks about how certain individuals associated with Trump seem determined to end their careers in ignominy . . .

    Certain NeverTrump individuals as well.

    • #3
    • November 21, 2020, at 12:11 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  4. Franz Drumlin Member

    Oops, I think I forgot to hit the ‘sarc’ button . . . there, now it’s off.

    Carry on.

    • #4
    • November 21, 2020, at 12:56 PM PST
    • 1 like
  5. Jim Wright Coolidge

    I dearly hope Jonah will become informative and entertaining again, soon. I miss that guy.

    • #5
    • November 21, 2020, at 5:24 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  6. kedavis Member

    Jim Wright (View Comment):

    I dearly hope Jonah will become informative and entertaining again, soon. I miss that guy.

    The cost may be too high.

    • #6
    • November 21, 2020, at 8:54 PM PST
    • 1 like
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… Coolidge

    Jim Wright (View Comment):

    I dearly hope Jonah will become informative and entertaining again, soon. I miss that guy.

    I don’t have any need to hear from him again. I must now assume that his prior “conservatism” was sort of like Bill Kristol’s — a costume he wore for a time in order to gain influence and money — a costume which was easily shed when he saw that money could be had from the left.

    • #7
    • November 22, 2020, at 7:11 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  8. Franz Drumlin Member

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    a costume which was easily shed when he saw that money could be had from the left.

    I’ve been reading Jonah Goldberg (and Kevin D. Williamson, David French, George Will, Rob Long, John Podhoretz et al) for years. He isn’t any ‘leftier’ than he was five or ten or fifteen years ago. His thinking and reasoning has been consistent. He just doesn’t like Donald Trump. Who lost the election, by the way.
     

    • #8
    • November 22, 2020, at 8:23 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… Coolidge

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    a costume which was easily shed when he saw that money could be had from the left.

    I’ve been reading Jonah Goldberg (and Kevin D. Williamson, David French, George Will, Rob Long, John Podhoretz et al) for years. He isn’t any ‘leftier’ than he was five or ten or fifteen years ago. His thinking and reasoning has been consistent. He just doesn’t like Donald Trump. Who lost the election, by the way.

    None of these people have anything of value to add to the conservative conversation. Especially not Williamson or French. The depth of my loathing for those two has not been found after many soundings.

    • #9
    • November 22, 2020, at 8:35 AM PST
    • 1 like
  10. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    a costume which was easily shed when he saw that money could be had from the left.

    I’ve been reading Jonah Goldberg (and Kevin D. Williamson, David French, George Will, Rob Long, John Podhoretz et al) for years. He isn’t any ‘leftier’ than he was five or ten or fifteen years ago. His thinking and reasoning has been consistent. He just doesn’t like Donald Trump. Who lost the election, by the way.

    Yes but we KNOW he doesn’t like Trump. Does he really have to keep saying it endlessly? I would like to hear how he doesn’t like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Who won the election by the way.

    • #10
    • November 22, 2020, at 8:40 AM PST
    • 5 likes
  11. Franz Drumlin Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    I would like to hear how he doesn’t like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

    We’ll hear plenty after the Electoral College meets and makes it official that Joe Biden has won the election. Trump will have no choice but to start packing. After January 20 we will all be comrades in arms again! (Except for Bill Kristol, Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin. They stay in the doghouse for while.)

    • #11
    • November 22, 2020, at 8:51 AM PST
    • 1 like
  12. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    I would like to hear how he doesn’t like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

    We’ll hear plenty after the Electoral College meets and makes it official that Joe Biden has won the election. Trump will have no choice but to start packing. After January 20 we will all be comrades in arms again! (Except for Bill Kristol, Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin. They stay in the doghouse for while.)

    I hope so but I’m not so sure. Jonah has been telling us for a long time that Biden is not going to go crazy left that I worry he will continue to defend him and there will be endless “but what about Trump” rank punditry.

    • #12
    • November 22, 2020, at 9:07 AM PST
    • 4 likes
  13. Jim Wright Coolidge

    I’ve been following Jonah since around Clinton’s impeachment. I cheered him on when he took over NRO and turned its then-pitiful excuse for an online presence into something I checked multiple times a day. I’ve appreciated his books. He’s been consistently ideology over party since I’ve been reading him; criticizing Dubya wasn’t nearly as provocative, but he did so on conservative grounds. Being critical of Trump is one thing; to talk of little else but Orange Man Bad and complain about those who complain about him endlessly droning on Orange Man Bad? Tiresome.

    Unlike the Bulwark, I like or have liked most of the people working at the Dispatch. But they’ve set fire to my last nerve since the election, and I’m boycotting until they finally move on to other topics.

    • #13
    • November 22, 2020, at 3:24 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  14. kedavis Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    I would like to hear how he doesn’t like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

    We’ll hear plenty after the Electoral College meets and makes it official that Joe Biden has won the election. Trump will have no choice but to start packing. After January 20 we will all be comrades in arms again! (Except for Bill Kristol, Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin. They stay in the doghouse for while.)

    I hope so but I’m not so sure. Jonah has been telling us for a long time that Biden is not going to go crazy left that I worry he will continue to defend him and there will be endless “but what about Trump” rank punditry.

    And then we remind Jonah of how he’s been against that very kind of talk, and… I dunno, Jonah pretends he never said it, or something.

    • #14
    • November 22, 2020, at 3:26 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  15. Jim Wright Coolidge

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    I would like to hear how he doesn’t like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

    We’ll hear plenty after the Electoral College meets and makes it official that Joe Biden has won the election. Trump will have no choice but to start packing. After January 20 we will all be comrades in arms again! (Except for Bill Kristol, Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin. They stay in the doghouse for while.)

    Jen Rubin is a lost cause. Max Boot was never that interesting to begin with. Kristol’s conversations podcast has been interesting on occasion, so though I ignore him most of the time, if he’s got a good guest on I’ll give him a chance.

    • #15
    • November 22, 2020, at 3:26 PM PST
    • 1 like
  16. Andrew Member

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    I really wish Jonah Goldberg would stop trashing President Trump. He’s been at it since – I don’t know – 2016? I mean, every podcast! At least every one I’ve listened to and I’ve listened to them all. The Remnant, GLoP Culture, you name it. I’m getting tired of hearing it. Three times a week, year after year after year. I just wish he’d stop.

    So stop listening.

    • #16
    • November 23, 2020, at 8:04 AM PST
    • Like
  17. Franz Drumlin Member

    Andrew (View Comment):
    So stop listening.

    Um, you probably missed the comment I added a bit later pointing out the perhaps over-veiled sarcasm of my first comment. I am a big fan of Jonah Goldberg and will listen (and read) him any time. I was casting my little barbs in the direction of those who regard Goldberg and friends as RINO squish Never Trump losers.

    • #17
    • November 23, 2020, at 1:27 PM PST
    • Like
  18. TerryS Member

    Biden has not won the election yet, and Trump has not lost the election. The electoral college decides who won the election, not pundits or commentaters on web pages.

    This is obviously true. I am not afraid of being attacked for stating the truth, not yet.

    This does not mean that it is wise for Trump to continue the election. It just means what it means: Trump has not conceded, the electoral college has yet to award its votes.

    Jonah truly has been broken by Trump. You will never see the “old Jonah” again. Jonah now firmy backs the party of internationalism, “science,” open borders, and corporate capitalism. He is not even a Eisenhower Republican any more he is a Democrat.

    Recall that his Brother in arms, David French, was pushed by Bill Kristol to run in the 2016 election as a third party, the obvious effect of his running would be to split the conservative vote and ensure Hillary’s win.

    French chose not to run because he felt it was too late in the race, and that he didn’t have the donor support he needed to make a difference. French did not refuse to run because it might throw the election to Hillary. His preffered outcome was a Hillary win.

     

    • #18
    • November 23, 2020, at 3:53 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  19. Architectus Coolidge

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Man of Consta… (View Comment):
    a costume which was easily shed when he saw that money could be had from the left.

    I’ve been reading Jonah Goldberg (and Kevin D. Williamson, David French, George Will, Rob Long, John Podhoretz et al) for years. He isn’t any ‘leftier’ than he was five or ten or fifteen years ago. His thinking and reasoning has been consistent. He just doesn’t like Donald Trump. Who lost the election, by the way.

    I just don’t see how you can believe that about Jonah, after the last four years of his commentary. I believe it was William F. Buckley Jr.’s adage that “in an election, you should vote for the most conservative candidate that has a chance of winning”. Jonah has not managed to do that in the last two elections, as I see it, failing WFB’s low-bar test. (I don’t remember Buckley adding “…unless you don’t like him, then go ahead and vote for the commie.”) It is hard to retain or merit the “conservative” label if you cannot support the most conservative president since Ronald Reagan, again, in terms of actual accomplishments both foreign and domestic. Maybe Jonah is more interested in conservatism as an idea than in conservatives in practice, more interested in conservative theory than in conservative governance. Fine. But we live in the real world, with real world consequences for actions and elections.

    • #19
    • November 23, 2020, at 8:08 PM PST
    • 3 likes
  20. Charlotte Member
    CharlotteJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I think it’s time for a few months’ hiatus from The Remnant. Jonah always sounds tired and whiny these days, and I do think that Donald Trump has sent him ’round the twist. Three podcasts a week (plus The Dispatch and GLOP) is waaaay too much for anyone to stay fresh and interesting over the long term. I hope Jonah can get some rest and some perspective and some new ideas in 2021. I’ll check back in then.

    • #20
    • November 24, 2020, at 8:48 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  21. TerryS Member

    This is my test for #TDS: if a person admits a ‘good” action by Trump, but immediately says it came from bad motivations, that’s TDS.

    Jonah regularly says that Trump is not an authoritarian because he is too lazy to be an authoritarian, and that he appoints so many conservative judges because he too stupid to pick out judges on his own & so lets the Federalist Society choose judges for him.

    That is TDS.

    It is like a high school hate club. Sure, so-and-so gets good grades, but only because his lack of friends gives him time to study.

    • #21
    • November 24, 2020, at 2:47 PM PST
    • 2 likes
  22. kedavis Member

    TerryS (View Comment):

    This is my test for #TDS: if a person admits a ‘good” action by Trump, but immediately says it came from bad motivations, that’s TDS.

    Jonah regularly says that Trump is not an authoritarian because he is too lazy to be an authoritarian, and that he appoints so many conservative judges because he too stupid to pick out judges on his own & so lets the Federalist Society choose judges for him.

    That is TDS.

    It is like a high school hate club. Sure, so-and-so gets good grades, but only because his lack of friends gives him time to study.

    Yes that’s one example, although I don’t think it’s the only way to diagnose TDS. There are others.

    And yeah, Trump is so lazy that he does sometimes 3 or more rallies/appearances in one day, while Joe is in his basement.

    • #22
    • November 24, 2020, at 3:10 PM PST
    • 1 like
  23. Pagodan Member

    Franz Drumlin (View Comment):

    Andrew (View Comment):
    So stop listening.

    Um, you probably missed the comment I added a bit later pointing out the perhaps over-veiled sarcasm of my first comment. I am a big fan of Jonah Goldberg and will listen (and read) him any time. I was casting my little barbs in the direction of those who regard Goldberg and friends as RINO squish Never Trump losers.

    They are

    • #23
    • November 26, 2020, at 11:35 PM PST
    • 2 likes