There are 13 comments.

  1. Cato Rand Reagan

    Thanks SO much for a great podcast on Illinois and Chicago politics. I’m becoming convinced that our fiscal disaster is one of the most interesting political issues in America today.

    But FYI, the Iron Range is in Minnesota (where I went to college), not Wisconsin (where I was born and raised). I couldn’t swear that there’s no iron mining in Wisconsin, but the sobriquet (as well as most of the iron) is associated with a region of northern Minnesota.

    • #1
    • May 15, 2019, at 10:48 AM PDT
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  2. kedavis Member

    Just after the 20 minute point, if you were saying that Chicago is a great place to visit – I couldn’t be sure if you were referring to Chicago, or Detroit, or Philadelphia, or maybe someplace in Wisconsin – then I strongly disagree. The humidity is awful. I visited once for a week, took a shower Monday morning and still felt damp the whole rest of the week. And that was coming from Oregon! Now that I’m used to Phoenix, I’d probably drown in Chicago just trying to breathe!

    • #2
    • May 15, 2019, at 1:55 PM PDT
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  3. Cato Rand Reagan

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Just after the 20 minute point, if you were saying that Chicago is a great place to visit – I couldn’t be sure if you were referring to Chicago, or Detroit, or Philadelphia, or maybe someplace in Wisconsin – then I strongly disagree. The humidity is awful. I visited once for a week, took a shower Monday morning and still felt damp the whole rest of the week. And that was coming from Oregon! Now that I’m used to Phoenix, I’d probably drown in Chicago just trying to breathe!

    I’ve lived in Chicago for 30 years. If you were here on an unbearably humid day, you just got unlucky. That’s rare. Go to Miami in July. That’s a place you can count on 110% humidity.

    • #3
    • May 15, 2019, at 7:46 PM PDT
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  4. kedavis Member

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Just after the 20 minute point, if you were saying that Chicago is a great place to visit – I couldn’t be sure if you were referring to Chicago, or Detroit, or Philadelphia, or maybe someplace in Wisconsin – then I strongly disagree. The humidity is awful. I visited once for a week, took a shower Monday morning and still felt damp the whole rest of the week. And that was coming from Oregon! Now that I’m used to Phoenix, I’d probably drown in Chicago just trying to breathe!

    I’ve lived in Chicago for 30 years. If you were here on an unbearably humid day, you just got unlucky. That’s rare. Go to Miami in July. That’s a place you can count on 110% humidity.

    It wasn’t just a day, as I mentioned, it was a week. Maybe it was an unlucky week, or maybe the lake effect etc makes it more humid all the time than people realize if they haven’t been many other places. Miami in July may indeed be even worse, but Chicago was plenty “worse” for me.

    • #4
    • May 16, 2019, at 1:29 AM PDT
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  5. Joe D. Lincoln

    Wow, at the end of the podcast, Jonah says he wants to move the median voter to the center everywhere… I thought he chastised us about how the mission of the conservative movement was to move the party to the right and electing Trump has the opposite effect and damages the conservative movement.

    Is there a hard ideological center that you support or are you fine with wherever power lies, the center is always in the opposite direction?

    Arguably, your bogeyman Trump is more of a centrist than a run of the mill Republican Presidential candidate was previously, much less of a free trader, not so much of a free marketer. Is that good?

    • #5
    • May 16, 2019, at 9:24 AM PDT
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  6. Cato Rand Reagan

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Cato Rand (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Just after the 20 minute point, if you were saying that Chicago is a great place to visit – I couldn’t be sure if you were referring to Chicago, or Detroit, or Philadelphia, or maybe someplace in Wisconsin – then I strongly disagree. The humidity is awful. I visited once for a week, took a shower Monday morning and still felt damp the whole rest of the week. And that was coming from Oregon! Now that I’m used to Phoenix, I’d probably drown in Chicago just trying to breathe!

    I’ve lived in Chicago for 30 years. If you were here on an unbearably humid day, you just got unlucky. That’s rare. Go to Miami in July. That’s a place you can count on 110% humidity.

    It wasn’t just a day, as I mentioned, it was a week. Maybe it was an unlucky week, or maybe the lake effect etc makes it more humid all the time than people realize if they haven’t been many other places. Miami in July may indeed be even worse, but Chicago was plenty “worse” for me.

    Whatever. Yea, I guess I’ve never been anywhere else so I wouldn’t know.

    • #6
    • May 16, 2019, at 11:55 AM PDT
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  7. kedavis Member

    Which is the real Gotham? I guess it depends on where you look for evidence. In the 1960s TV series they referred to “Mayor Linseed” and “Governor Stonefellow” so they were clearly putting it as New York City/state.

    Anyway, Chicago doesn’t seem to have the requisite number of skyscrapers etc. Philadelphia probably doesn’t either.

    • #7
    • May 16, 2019, at 12:13 PM PDT
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  8. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Which is the real Gotham? I guess it depends on where you look for evidence. In the 1960s TV series they referred to “Mayor Linseed” and “Governor Stonefellow” so they were clearly putting it as New York City/state.

    Anyway, Chicago doesn’t seem to have the requisite number of skyscrapers etc. Philadelphia probably doesn’t either.

    Across the river from Gotham is New Guernsey.

    • #8
    • May 16, 2019, at 1:23 PM PDT
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  9. Unwoke Caveman Lawyer Coolidge

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    Wow, at the end of the podcast, Jonah says he wants to move the median voter to the center everywhere… I thought he chastised us about how the mission of the conservative movement was to move the party to the right and electing Trump has the opposite effect and damages the conservative movement.

    Is there a hard ideological center that you support or are you fine with wherever power lies, the center is always in the opposite direction?

    Arguably, your bogeyman Trump is more of a centrist than a run of the mill Republican Presidential candidate was previously, much less of a free trader, not so much of a free marketer. Is that good?

    I’m not sure (just listened to that part of Goldberg’s comments a second time before replying here), but I think Goldberg is saying here that he wants the median voter to be in the center of the actual electorate—in other words, you don’t want a situation where the politicians have (matter of degree) insulated themselves from electoral accountability, because then they go and do the kinds of self-interested (and at-everyone-else’s-expense) shenanigans that any guild will get into if they can get away with it.

    I think that’s distinct from the other thing you make reference to (which I agree, I’m more used to hearing Goldberg and others talk about): We want to move the whole electorate (or whatever parts we can) to the right, and (in an appropriately responsive democratic system) the median voter will necessarily move to the right with it. (Thus moving the median voter to the right is often reasonably used as shorthand for moving a larger swath of the electorate around him to the right.)

    tl;dr: I think Goldberg here is talking about who has a meaningful vote vs. what the voters want, whereas in those other places you mention, he’s talking about what the voters currently want vs. what we want to work on persuading them to want.

    But I agree I’m not used to his way of talking about it here and I think it’s confusing.

    FWIW I agree that Trump is, in terms of policy positions, more centrist than the usual Republican candidate, on various issues, from free trade to entitlement reform. I agree that Goldberg (and I) would say that’s less good.

    • #9
    • May 18, 2019, at 5:42 PM PDT
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  10. Unwoke Caveman Lawyer Coolidge

    (I mean, I guess Goldberg’s main point, in the arguments you mention about why Trump is bad, isn’t that he’s centrist, but that he does more harm than good in the effort to persuade people and change the culture. If, say, Trump’s existence convinces 20% of the population to consider conservatism because they like Trump, but also convinces 30% of the population that conservatism is evil or gross because they don’t like Trump, then it’s a net loss for society and for the conservative movement, even if Trump wins every election he runs in.)

    • #10
    • May 18, 2019, at 5:46 PM PDT
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  11. kedavis Member

    On the other hand, if Trump is ideologically more centrist than other named “conservatives,” but he actually DOES things while the supposedly more “conservative” candidates just TALK about being conservative… such as, for one example, actually moving the Israel embassy to Jerusalem rather than just talking about doing it for a few more decades… well, I think I’ll take “centrist” doing over “conservative” talking.

    • #11
    • May 19, 2019, at 2:12 AM PDT
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  12. Unwoke Caveman Lawyer Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):

    On the other hand, if Trump is ideologically more centrist than other named “conservatives,” but he actually DOES things while the supposedly more “conservative” candidates just TALK about being conservative… such as, for one example, actually moving the Israel embassy to Jerusalem rather than just talking about doing it for a few more decades… well, I think I’ll take “centrist” doing over “conservative” talking.

    I think that’s a fair point, and I think even Trump skeptics (I think both Goldberg and Ben Shapiro, off the top of my head—not 100% sure) have admitted both that that (moving the embassy to Jerusalem) was very good, and that they don’t think most other Republicans would have done that (with possible exceptions, such as Ted Cruz, if he had become president). On the other hand, Trump promised to repeal Obamacare, and a lot of us conservatives considered that a very important goal, and he failed, or (taking the facts in the light most favorable to him) he mostly failed. (Yes, it’s Congress’s job, but the president can do an enormous amount to shape the narrative and push the agenda, and Trump didn’t.) On the whole, I wouldn’t grade Trump as any more action-oriented than the Republican baseline.

    • #12
    • May 19, 2019, at 10:22 AM PDT
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  13. kedavis Member

    I’m not sure how much more Trump could have done, or even really NEEDED to do, regarding Obamacare, considering the oft-repeated public pronouncements of people like the late, unlamented (by me, anyway) McCain. Once it became clear that many in the Republican majority in the Senate were “all hat, no cattle” it was probably best to move on. Trump may understand better than many – including Jonah Goldberg, etc – that just continually dumping on the other Republicans the way many of those Republicans dump on HIM, doesn’t lead to actual progress. Indeed, probably just the opposite. It’s far easier for the left to attack Supreme Court nominees, for example, when they can point out that they were appointed by a “loathsome” (according to many in his own party) president.

    • #13
    • May 19, 2019, at 3:51 PM PDT
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