Steven Teles, a professor of political science at Johns Hopkins University, joins us on the heels of his newly released book, Never Trump. Stop sharpening your pitchforks, everyone! It’s an objective treatment of the Never Trump movement that doesn’t come down one way or the other on it. It also leads into some classic Remnant wonkery, with tangents into the problems with party strength, mediating institutions, and political history, and how these things relate to the tensions within modern conservatism.

 

Show Notes:

Steve and Rob Saldin’s book, “Never Trump”

Milan Svolik: “Polarization versus Democracy”

The DNC commission that created changes in 1972

Eddie Izzard: “Cake or Death?”

Gorillas in the Mist Conservatism

Buckley’s function as conservative purgemaster

George Nash’s book on conservative intellectual history

Knightian uncertainty

Invasion of the Body Snatchers

Aldrich’s “Why Parties?”

Remnant 186, with Shoshana Weissmann

Bound by Oath, a podcast by the Institute for Justice

Subscribe to The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg in Apple Podcasts (and leave a 5-star review, please!), or by RSS feed. For all our podcasts in one place, subscribe to the Ricochet Audio Network Superfeed in Apple Podcasts or by RSS feed.

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  1. Penfold Member

    “I have found that when people end a sentence with the word ‘right,’ they are, in fact, not asking a question at all, nor are they actively seeking acquiescence or agreement from the listener. When they say ‘right,’ they are implying to the listener that what they are saying is not only obviously correct, but that the listener already understands and is already in agreement with them. This is because the speaker rarely pauses before moving on to the next sentence or thought. It is both a rhetorical and disingenuous verbal crutch which can be quite alienating.” 

    Thomas Clark

    Right?

     

    • #1
    • April 9, 2020, at 1:57 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  2. Quintus Sertorius Coolidge

    I thought this was a very interesting PodCast and I very much enjoyed it. It is always good to hear conversations that can challenge your movement etc. 

    That said, I am not going to hold my breath waiting for academics to publish studies about the “monsters” in the basement of the Democrats/Left side of the political spectrum. I doubt there are any dissertations being written about left’s version of the John Birch Society and the Alt-Right. Jonah pushed back somewhat on that but in a pretty anemic way. 

    Still very much enjoyed the podcast!!

    • #2
    • April 9, 2020, at 2:43 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  3. TerryS Member

    Some good, but a few clunkers. Teles says that the history of the GOP is a history of purges: birchers, and bigots. Fair enough. But this implies that no one is too radical to be purged from the Democrats. remember Joe Lieberman? Remember that Hubert Humphrey expelled the Stalinists from Minnesota’s DFL. Apparently there are no longer any Marxists among the Democrats that should be expelled by a mainstream political party?

    Near the beginning of the podcast, Jonah complains that Trump supporters are irrational because they say that the #nevertrumpers are powerless, while at the same time they accuse the #nevertrumpers of harming trump’s policy objectives.

    Of course both of these can be true at the same time. Jonah as much as admitted this when he agreed with Teles, later in the podcast, that the ranks of #nevertrumpers are dominated by media figures, political consultants, and party apparatchiks. 

    The #nevertrumpers lack the popular support they need to turn the GOP base against trump (e.g., they are powerless), yet they frequently take sides with Trump’s political enemies against Trump (e.g., they give political cover for the Democrats).

    How often did Jonah go on the air as NPR’s conservative mascot to inform NPR’s liberal listeners that he, like them, believed Mueller’s investigation was necessary, and that Trump should be impeached over the Ukraine nonsense?

     

     

    • #3
    • April 9, 2020, at 4:44 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  4. kedavis Member

    I don’t understand why Jonah appears to believe that Hillary Clinton shouldn’t be held accountable for things worse than get ordinary sailors court-martialed and sent to prison… just because she was running for President? Why not put her where she belonged, and THEN let the democratic process decide if it wanted to elect her anyway? She wouldn’t be – or have been – the first Democrat to win (re-)election from behind bars.

    • #4
    • April 10, 2020, at 4:34 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  5. kedavis Member

    Penfold (View Comment):

    “I have found that when people end a sentence with the word ‘right,’ they are, in fact, not asking a question at all, nor are they actively seeking acquiescence or agreement from the listener. When they say ‘right,’ they are implying to the listener that what they are saying is not only obviously correct, but that the listener already understands and is already in agreement with them. This is because the speaker rarely pauses before moving on to the next sentence or thought. It is both a rhetorical and disingenuous verbal crutch which can be quite alienating.”

    Thomas Clark

    Right?

    In many/most cases, perhaps. But for this guy, I think it was just a verbal tic, something he does instead of “um,” “uh,” all the time like some others do. Or maybe “Eh?” if he was Canadian.

    • #5
    • April 10, 2020, at 4:38 AM PDT
    • Like
  6. FredGoodhue Coolidge

    There was the Nixon debacle of 1974 where a president resigned, Republicans lost badly in congress and local Republicans lost in many parts of the country. Yet in six years Republicans were back in power, and with very different policies. It’s not a perfect analogy, but problems don’t last forever.

    • #6
    • April 10, 2020, at 5:13 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  7. kedavis Member

    I also remember Jonah and others more or less making fun of people who “catastrophize everything.” And then without blinking he gets into catastrophizing the 2016 and now the 2020 elections. Jonah seems to think and say that his catastrophizing is more “personal” and hence more valid – at least to him – but other people who have gone off the deep end take it very personally too. I know people who think Trump will order Homeland Security to put RFID chips in THEIR heads, and then order Black Helicopters to take THEM to FEMA Interment Camps… My mother seems to believe Trump is literally (that’s actual literally, not like when Joe Biden says it) the Anti-Christ. Is their catastrophizing any more irrational than Jonah’s, just because they don’t think it’s “Because We’re Jews!”?

    • #7
    • April 10, 2020, at 5:23 AM PDT
    • Like
  8. Steven Iverson Member

    Terribly boring podcast. Sorry Jonah, most I enjoy.

    • #8
    • April 14, 2020, at 1:10 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  9. kedavis Member

    Steven Iverson (View Comment):

    Terribly boring podcast. Sorry Jonah, most I enjoy.

    It actually was boring too, yes.

    • #9
    • April 14, 2020, at 1:29 PM PDT
    • Like
  10. Charlotte Member
    Charlotte Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Penfold (View Comment):

    “I have found that when people end a sentence with the word ‘right,’ they are, in fact, not asking a question at all, nor are they actively seeking acquiescence or agreement from the listener. When they say ‘right,’ they are implying to the listener that what they are saying is not only obviously correct, but that the listener already understands and is already in agreement with them. This is because the speaker rarely pauses before moving on to the next sentence or thought. It is both a rhetorical and disingenuous verbal crutch which can be quite alienating.”

    Thomas Clark

    Right?

    In many/most cases, perhaps. But for this guy, I think it was just a verbal tic, something he does instead of “um,” “uh,” all the time like some others do. Or maybe “Eh?” if he was Canadian.

    It was both. And it was tedious.

    • #10
    • April 16, 2020, at 3:05 PM PDT
    • Like