Politico chief political correspondent Tim Alberta joins the Remnant to discuss the behind-the-scenes machinations and the long-term implications of Trump’s securing the Republican presidential nomination–and then the presidency itself–in 2016, the subjects of his new book: American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. 

Shownotes

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There are 25 comments.

  1. dicentra Member

    Wait.

    You’re both asserting that there was an undercurrent of racism in the Tea Party—that it must have been there, else why did the Tea Partiers go for MAGA?

    That assumes that many MAGA-ites are aboard the Trump train because of racial identity politics.

    But aren’t there more identity types than racial? What about cultural? Obama waged constant rhetorical war against his cultural and political opponents, branding them as bitter clingers and such, and also there was a huge amount of Kulturkampf going on in the form of Obamacare (socialism!), wherein the Oministration went after the Little Sisters of the Poor and Hobby Lobby, and don’t forget gay marriage, wherein bakers and photographers were slammed to the wall for holding positions that the day before yesterday were uncontroversial.

    Obama and the left made it very clear that they were coming for us, and that they were going to use whatever means necessary to extirpate us from society. Hillary was going to be the continuation of that. And then Trump came along and gave a huge middle finger to the left, he wasn’t cowed by leftist pearl-clutching, and the rest is history.

    I didn’t even vote for the guy but I get that. As for the abandonment of fiscal concerns, we discovered that we can primary Republicans all day long and when they go to Washington they still won’t be fiscally conservative. A sense of utter futility is what sank that ship.

    • #1
    • July 23, 2019, at 3:35 PM PDT
    • 9 likes
  2. Jeff Hawkins Coolidge

    I tend to think the Tea Party types went MAGA when establishment Republicans put the Tea Party at the kids table and cut them off at the knees, called Cruz “too conservative” and didn’t cut spending.

    They got the impression Republicans were more interested in fighting Tea Party to maintain position than fighting Democrats on the policy battlefield.

    It’s a shame the University Journal isn’t around for Audrey, as we had a few conservative columnists (including Greg Forster, now part of the Gospel Coalition…I wrote things that just made people angry). Cavalier Daily was always “lightweight” and for the famewhores on Grounds :)

     

     

    • #2
    • July 23, 2019, at 4:11 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  3. kedavis Member

    Jonah says again that “Trump is not a/the cause of our problems, he’s a symptom of them” and yet he apparently doesn’t realize that, by his own measure, just not having – or now getting rid of – Trump wouldn’t do anything about actually fixing those problems.

    • #3
    • July 23, 2019, at 8:50 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  4. kedavis Member

    It sounded to me like Justin Amash, Mark Sanford, and Raoul Labrador more “squashed” THEMSELVES. Someone – even a president – choosing not to give an endorsement, doesn’t strike me as “squashing” regardless of what the reason might have been. And Trump certainly wasn’t responsible for Sanford’s odd behavior about the affair and supposedly traveling, etc.

    • #4
    • July 23, 2019, at 9:31 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  5. Bishop Wash Member

    Jeff Hawkins (View Comment):

    I tend to think the Tea Party types went MAGA when establishment Republicans put the Tea Party at the kids table and cut them off at the knees, called Cruz “too conservative” and didn’t cut spending.

    They got the impression Republicans were more interested in fighting Tea Party to maintain position than fighting Democrats on the policy battlefield.

     

    I first heard it from Alex the Chick at Ace of Spades, but don’t think it originated with her. The Tea Party was voters asking nicely. After being ignored, Donald Trump is them asking not as nicely. 

    • #5
    • July 23, 2019, at 9:37 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  6. kedavis Member

    So, Jonah said “bench warrants.” At first listen it sounded like “revenge porn.”

    • #6
    • July 23, 2019, at 10:06 PM PDT
    • Like
  7. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    dicentra (View Comment):

    Wait.

    You’re both asserting that there was an undercurrent of racism in the Tea Party—that it must have been there, else why did the Tea Partiers go for MAGA?

    That assumes that many MAGA-ites are aboard the Trump train because of racial identity politics.

    Cringe.

    I’m afraid to listen to this episode. It looks like a train wreck of revisionist history of the very worst, worst kind.

    I remember how much the Tea Party and its similar factions loved Allen West, Herman Cain, Tim Scott, Mia Love, and the only Republican really to lead Trump in the polls at any point — Dr. Ben Carson. I think I saw more Ben Carson bumper stickers in rural America than I saw anything else in 2015. I remember visiting one house in rural America where a truck was completely covered in Ben Carson bumper stickers. This is a rural county without any stoplights, where the second-largest city has less than 200 people, and where citizens are 99.6% native-born and 97.92% white.

    I remember joining Ricochet in late 2011 specifically when Rob Long and others would not take seriously the fact that a businessman like Herman Cain could be elected president.

    “The so-called white nationalists, white supremacists, I don’t even know any. Nobody I know on the Republican side even knows these people. …the media-Democrat complex and the Never Trumpers have now decided to try to portray the fringe, really fringe extreme right wingers of which there are so few you couldn’t put them all in a phone booth, the Never Trumpers have joined the media in trying to portray that as the mainstream the Republican Party united under Donald Trump. …if we were to be told tomorrow morning when we woke up that the country is now gonna be run by Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele, and Thomas Sowell, we would be thrilled. …if Jeane Kirkpatrick were still alive, throw her in there. There’s no sexism, there’s no misogyny, there’s no racism. There’s just on our side a pursuit of the best.” — Rush Limbaugh, July 22, 2019

    • #7
    • July 23, 2019, at 11:00 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  8. kedavis Member

    The way I sometimes put it, goes like this:

    A black president? Fine. THAT (half-)black president? (Obama) No thanks.

    A female president? No problem. THAT female president? (Hillary) No WAY.”

    • #8
    • July 24, 2019, at 2:31 AM PDT
    • 5 likes
  9. Joe D. Lincoln

    I think the resentment over the budget deficit is still out there, and the reason it’s not quite as vocal now has more to do with we are not being asked to pay for deadbeats home mortgages or bail out banks right now.

    We’ll be back and super pissed off when we’re asked to pay off the student loans of the new deadbeats.

    • #9
    • July 24, 2019, at 7:03 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  10. kedavis Member

    Joe D. (View Comment):
    We’ll be back and super pissed off when were asked to pay off the student loans of the new deadbeats.

    I expect there will be a lot of them. Who’s going to hire bitter millennials with degrees in feminist studies, gay studies, black studies, meme creation, ad nauseum. Not even other millennials!

    • #10
    • July 24, 2019, at 7:14 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  11. Joe D. Lincoln

    Maybe the support of Trump by some of these people you think have just lost it have not so much made a Faustian bargain as accepted that this is the best that we can do right now. If Trump isn’t reelected we’ll get a socialist, so we might as well get behind Trump.

    • #11
    • July 24, 2019, at 7:17 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  12. Bishop Wash Member

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    dicentra (View Comment):

    Wait.

    You’re both asserting that there was an undercurrent of racism in the Tea Party—that it must have been there, else why did the Tea Partiers go for MAGA?

    That assumes that many MAGA-ites are aboard the Trump train because of racial identity politics.

    Cringe.

    I’m afraid to listen to this episode. It looks like a train wreck of revisionist history of the very worst, worst kind.

    The comments here make it hard to anticipate it in the queue.

    • #12
    • July 24, 2019, at 9:06 AM PDT
    • Like
  13. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    Maybe the support of Trump by some of these people you think have just lot it have not so much made a Faustian bargain as accepted that this is the best that we can do right now. If Trump isn’t reelected we’ll get a socialist, so we might as well get behind Trump.

    I don’t want Trump. Don’t like Trump. I think he is a horrible man. I will never “get behind Trump”. But if he can just stop his stupid mouth for long enough and the Democrats can’t come up with a single candidate that isn’t completely crazy, I will have to vote for him. He’s awful, but the Democrats are worse. 

    • #13
    • July 24, 2019, at 9:30 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  14. Moneyman Coolidge

    dicentra (View Comment):

    Wait.

    You’re both asserting that there was an undercurrent of racism in the Tea Party—that it must have been there, else why did the Tea Partiers go for MAGA?

    That assumes that many MAGA-ites are aboard the Trump train because of racial identity politics.

    But aren’t there more identity types than racial? What about cultural? Obama waged constant rhetorical war against his cultural and political opponents, branding them as bitter clingers and such, and also there was a huge amount of Kulturkampf going on in the form of Obamacare (socialism!), wherein the Oministration went after the Little Sisters of the Poor and Hobby Lobby, and don’t forget gay marriage, wherein bakers and photographers were slammed to the wall for holding positions that the day before yesterday were uncontroversial.

    Obama and the left made it very clear that they were coming for us, and that they were going to use whatever means necessary to extirpate us from society. Hillary was going to be the continuation of that. And then Trump came along and gave a huge middle finger to the left, he wasn’t cowed by leftist pearl-clutching, and the rest is history.

    I didn’t even vote for the guy but I get that. As for the abandonment of fiscal concerns, we discovered that we can primary Republicans all day long and when they go to Washington they still won’t be fiscally conservative. A sense of utter futility is what sank that ship.

    I agree. There were numerous times when the Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and the Presidency. Opportunities to cut spending, reducing waste, and reform services were lost.

    I don’t trust Republicans to keep promises anymore.

    • #14
    • July 24, 2019, at 1:21 PM PDT
    • Like
  15. Al Sparks Thatcher

    One of the things mentioned briefly was the birthers, with regards to whether Obama was born in the United States.

    It’s easy for me to be dismissive of them. My issue is the charges of racism. You know, the dog whistle.

    One of the thnigs I liked about Trump was he came out and said that Obama wasn’t revealing his Hawaiian birth certificate. How come? Something other Republicans were afraid to do.

    Obama under that specific challenge from Trump finally did. And the reason he didn’t before is he liked driving people from the right wing fringe nuts.

    Republicans were too afraid to challenge Obama on that. Republican politicians need to do a better job of pushing back on spurious racism charges. That Trump does, and seemingly is the only one, continues to make him attractive.

    • #15
    • July 24, 2019, at 1:30 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  16. Hank Rhody, on the blockchain Contributor

    No, no, keep calling me a racist. I am intensely interested in your views on that matter.

    • #16
    • July 24, 2019, at 11:44 PM PDT
    • 3 likes
  17. kedavis Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    Maybe the support of Trump by some of these people you think have just lot it have not so much made a Faustian bargain as accepted that this is the best that we can do right now. If Trump isn’t reelected we’ll get a socialist, so we might as well get behind Trump.

    I don’t want Trump. Don’t like Trump. I think he is a horrible man. I will never “get behind Trump”. But if he can just stop his stupid mouth for long enough and the Democrats can’t come up with a single candidate that isn’t completely crazy, I will have to vote for him. He’s awful, but the Democrats are worse.

    So, if Trump doesn’t keep his stupid mouth shut for long enough, you won’t “have to” vote for him even though you see the Democrats are worse?

    Interesting.

    • #17
    • July 25, 2019, at 1:06 PM PDT
    • Like
  18. Petty Boozswha Member

    EDIT – wrong remnant thread

    • #18
    • July 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM PDT
    • Like
  19. The Cynthonian Member

    I listened, and yes, there are parts that made me sigh with impatience. The most interesting parts are about the current and immediately prior House of Representatives. 

    The guest was interesting, but I have to say I think the title of his book is overwrought.

    • #19
    • July 25, 2019, at 10:10 PM PDT
    • Like
  20. kylez Member

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Joe D. (View Comment):
    We’ll be back and super pissed off when were asked to pay off the student loans of the new deadbeats.

    I expect there will be a lot of them. Who’s going to hire bitter millennials with degrees in feminist studies, gay studies, black studies, meme creation, ad nauseum. Not even other millennials!

    It’s like we’re going to have a whole generation of college grads who don’t know how to do anything except whine about how they’re supposedly being represented in movies.

    • #20
    • July 26, 2019, at 2:03 AM PDT
    • Like
  21. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    Maybe the support of Trump by some of these people you think have just lot it have not so much made a Faustian bargain as accepted that this is the best that we can do right now. If Trump isn’t reelected we’ll get a socialist, so we might as well get behind Trump.

    I don’t want Trump. Don’t like Trump. I think he is a horrible man. I will never “get behind Trump”. But if he can just stop his stupid mouth for long enough and the Democrats can’t come up with a single candidate that isn’t completely crazy, I will have to vote for him. He’s awful, but the Democrats are worse.

    So, if Trump doesn’t keep his stupid mouth shut for long enough, you won’t “have to” vote for him even though you see the Democrats are worse?

    Interesting.

    Well if he says something so awful that I can’t vote for him that will be that. I suppose you think that he can say anything and you will still vote for him.

    Interesting.

    • #21
    • July 26, 2019, at 4:47 AM PDT
    • Like
  22. Bishop Wash Member

    Started listening on my commute. Was surprised, but maybe shouldn’t be, to learn that those wonderful videos showing liberals crying because Hillary lost was happening at the RNC headquarters as well. Oh why couldn’t our guy lose gracefully like the last two guys.

    During the Democrat primary I initially bought into the lie that Obama was a great orator. The more he spoke, especially off prompter, the more it became evident he wasn’t a great speaker. Jonah mentioned that Obama said nice things to evangelicals and then a few minutes later references the bitter clingers to their sky god and boom sticks line. That was Obama’s line to evangelicals not a random person in the DNC. Obama’s disdain for Christians was evident during the campaign.

     

    • #22
    • July 26, 2019, at 7:50 AM PDT
    • Like
  23. Miffed White Male Member

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    I think the resentment over the budget deficit is still out there, and the reason it’s not quite as vocal now has more to do with we are not being asked to pay for deadbeats home mortgages or bail out banks right now.

    We’ll be back and super pissed off when we’re asked to pay off the student loans of the new deadbeats.

    My take on why the Tea Party (and “Porklbusters” before them) lost focus on spending and the deficit is that, at least on my part, I was truly terrified we’d see complete complete collapse long before now.

    I haven’t quite come over to the “deficits don’t matter” side yet, but if you’d told me 10 years ago that things would still be humming along reasonably well at this point with the level of spending and debt that we have, I’d have though you were nuts.

     

    • #23
    • July 26, 2019, at 11:03 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  24. kedavis Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Joe D. (View Comment):

    Maybe the support of Trump by some of these people you think have just lot it have not so much made a Faustian bargain as accepted that this is the best that we can do right now. If Trump isn’t reelected we’ll get a socialist, so we might as well get behind Trump.

    I don’t want Trump. Don’t like Trump. I think he is a horrible man. I will never “get behind Trump”. But if he can just stop his stupid mouth for long enough and the Democrats can’t come up with a single candidate that isn’t completely crazy, I will have to vote for him. He’s awful, but the Democrats are worse.

    So, if Trump doesn’t keep his stupid mouth shut for long enough, you won’t “have to” vote for him even though you see the Democrats are worse?

    Interesting.

    Well if he says something so awful that I can’t vote for him that will be that. I suppose you think that he can say anything and you will still vote for him.

    Interesting.

    What’s the relevance of what he SAYS versus what he DOES? It’s supposed to be the Left that’s all about virtue-signaling etc, not actual results. As mentioned before, I voted for Cruz in the primaries. But I can see that Trump has BEHAVED more conservative than Cruz.

     

    • #24
    • July 27, 2019, at 12:25 AM PDT
    • Like
  25. Bishop Wash Member

    Madeleine Westerhout, mentioned at the nine minute mark, is out at the White House. She allegedly shared intimate details about the presidential family with reporters.

    • #25
    • August 30, 2019, at 10:13 AM PDT
    • Like