Jonah Goldberg is a leading conservative critic of Trump and Trumpism. Therefore, there is a big target on his back, and front, and everywhere else. And yet he stands and delivers.

With Jay, he talks about Assange. Putin. The American Right. National Review. The National Enquirer. Hillary. The Trump Train. Anti-Semitism. The GOP future. Etc. He and Jay talk it all out, or most of it out, or a great deal of it out.

At the end of the podcast, Jay says that Jonah’s stance against Trump, and for conservatism, has been a comfort to him, personally. Many others can sing that tune. Listen to Jonah sing on this lengthy, though fast-moving, heart-to-heart podcast.

Subscribe to Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger in Apple Podcasts (and leave a 5-star review, please!), or by RSS feed. For all our podcasts in one place, subscribe to the Ricochet Audio Network Superfeed in Apple Podcasts or by RSS feed.

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There are 80 comments.

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  1. Curt North Inactive

    A Never Trumper interviews another Never Trumper. The diversity here is over-whelming. Was Mike Murphy unavailable?

    • #1
    • September 7, 2016, at 12:31 PM PDT
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  2. Viator Inactive
    Viator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    One by one, Never Trumpers are throwing in their cards.

    • #2
    • September 7, 2016, at 12:52 PM PDT
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  3. Viator Inactive
    Viator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It

    “Over the last 25 years, neither the intellectuals nor the Party leaders of the NeverTrump crowd has prevented, or even slowed, the Left’s march through our cultural institutions. And now, to round out their litany of failure, they urge us to give the Left permanent possession of the presidency and the federal judiciary.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/nevertrumps_and_the_end_of_america_as_we_know_it.html

    • #3
    • September 7, 2016, at 1:03 PM PDT
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  4. Richard Fulmer Member

    Trump says whatever the crowd in front of him wants to hear, regardless of whether he said the exact opposite the day before. #EverTrumpers change with him – he is their weathervane. It’s amazing they don’t get whiplash. I understand voting for Trump because he’s not Hillary – Hillary is horrible. But I don’t get actually arguing that whatever stance Trump is taking at the moment is somehow “principled.”

    • #4
    • September 7, 2016, at 1:20 PM PDT
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  5. Umbra Fractus Coolidge
    Umbra Fractus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I see the Trumpers have responded in their usual fashion, which basically amounts to, “Shut up.”

    • #5
    • September 7, 2016, at 1:39 PM PDT
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  6. Richard Fulmer Member

    I don’t understand why #EverTrumps think that threatening #NeverTrumps and calling them foul names (here I’m referring to the hate mail that Jonah and Jay have received, and not to the conversations here on Ricochet) will change their minds. My instinctive reaction to being pushed is to push back.

    • #6
    • September 7, 2016, at 1:49 PM PDT
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  7. The Question Inactive

    Viator:NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It

    “Over the last 25 years, neither the intellectuals nor the Party leaders of the NeverTrump crowd has prevented, or even slowed, the Left’s march through our cultural institutions. And now, to round out their litany of failure, they urge us to give the Left permanent possession of the presidency and the federal judiciary.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/nevertrumps_and_the_end_of_america_as_we_know_it.html

    I’m not sure what this means. We’ve lost some and we’ve won some. We’ve been winning on gun control. Obamacare passed but cap and trade didn’t and Gang of Eight didn’t, because we won Congress back. The idea that Trump that is going to be more competent and trustworthy than those Republicans is just wishful thinking.

    I may vote for Trump, if I feel he’ll actually fight Democrats and not gut conservatism out of the Republican Party. But I’m still baffled why any conservative would put his faith in him.

    • #7
    • September 7, 2016, at 1:52 PM PDT
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  8. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    The Question: I may vote for Trump, if I feel he’ll actually fight Democrats and not gut conservatism out of the Republican Party. But I’m still baffled why any conservative would put his faith in him.

    If you consider yourself a Republican and want to defeat the Democrats, there is only one candidate to vote for, Donald Trump. Most of us who are supporting Trump consider ourselves conservatives also. The Nevers have their own small group who not only want the entire party to buy their particular definition of conservatism, but they are willing to elect Clinton in the misguided belief that it will help them rebrand the party in their image in the next four years. They are gravely mistaken and are making tons of enemies inside the party. According the latest polls, some 86% of Republicans are supporting Trump. Period.

    • #8
    • September 7, 2016, at 2:11 PM PDT
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  9. Peter Meza Member
    Peter Meza Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    OK, so what are you (Jonah and Jay) going to do regarding the election? The whole discussion is irrelevant to the election. What are you going to do?:

    1. Vote for Hillary?
    2. Vote for a third party candidate?
    3. Not vote?
    4. What do you recommend that we do?

    We’ve got the point loud and clear that you both think both Trump (and giving you the benefit of the doubt, Hillary) are terrible candidates.

    • #9
    • September 7, 2016, at 2:11 PM PDT
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  10. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Richard Fulmer: #EverTrumpers change with him – he is their weathervane.

    You may be right there. I pretty much agree with everything he says yesterday, today and tomorrow. If he changes to get more votes, I’ll change too. I want to defeat Hillary Clinton and the dirty Democrats. Period.

    • #10
    • September 7, 2016, at 2:14 PM PDT
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  11. Eugene Kriegsmann Member

    I have to echo the final words that Jay said about Jonah, but also to say that both he, Jay, and Mona as well as Jonah are a continuing inspiration to me.

    As to those who object to one Never Trumper interviewing another, I suppose you never watch Fox or read Breitbart because it is just one Trumper interviewing another Trumper. Like Jay and Jonah, I have no problem with someone who is voting for Trump because they feel the desperate need to stop Hillary, and they live somewhere that their vote actually counts. My problem is with those holier than thou types who find it necessary to attack those of us who find both candidates in the binary formula unacceptable. For me, the Great Pumpkin has never been an acceptable choice for the presidency no matter who he ran against or what party he chose. I feel the same about the Great Liar. For me, there is no win in this election no matter who wins.

    • #11
    • September 7, 2016, at 2:15 PM PDT
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  12. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    The time for choosing is over. If you consider yourselves a Republican, we have a candidate who was duly elected during the primaries and confirmed at the convention. If you are working against the Republican candidate, then you are helping the other side to win. 86% of Republicans support Trump. It is time to either help elect him or get out of the way.

    • #12
    • September 7, 2016, at 2:19 PM PDT
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  13. Richard Fulmer Member

    goldwaterwoman:

    Richard Fulmer: #EverTrumpers change with him – he is their weathervane.

    You may be right there. I pretty much agree with everything he says yesterday, today and tomorrow. If he changes to get more votes, I’ll change too. I want to defeat Hillary Clinton and the dirty Democrats. Period.

    I don’t understand how changing your “principles” from day to day helps Trump. If today you say, “I support Trump because he wants to deport 12 million illegal aliens,” and tomorrow you say, “I support Trump because he doesn’t want to deport 12 million illegal aliens,” all you do is discredit yourself. If, instead, you say something like, “I don’t always agree with Trump, but I think he would make a better president than Hillary,” and then you provide facts and reasoning to support your view, you’re going to be much more effective.

    • #13
    • September 7, 2016, at 2:55 PM PDT
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  14. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Richard Fulmer: If, instead, you say something like, “I don’t always agree with Trump, but I think he would make a better president than Hillary,” and then you provide facts and reasoning to support your view, you’re going to be much more effective.

    Uh, okay. I’ll say that too. Bottom line is — I still want to defeat the dirty Democrats and Trump is the vehicle. We can go on and on about the whys and wherefores, but what is the point? The Nevers and Trumpsters have argued endlessly on these boards. Each side is convinced they are right.

    • #14
    • September 7, 2016, at 3:05 PM PDT
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  15. Merrijane Thatcher

    This election season has filled me with deep sadness. I wish there were less acrimony on both sides. In any case, God bless Jonah Goldberg for expressing what I feel myself, since lately there are so few who do so. May this election be remembered as some kind of weird anomaly.

    • #15
    • September 7, 2016, at 3:40 PM PDT
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  16. Viator Inactive
    Viator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The Question: I’m still baffled why any conservative would put his faith in him.

    The Conservative Case for Trump by Phyllis Schlafly

    “The stakes are unmistakably high,” Schlafly writes in the introduction. “I know that some well-meaning conservatives find Trump puzzling or even offensive, but I trust that this book—the culmination, for me, of more than seventy years of active involvement in Republican politics—might help sway them.”

    If you’re curious, buy her best selling book.

    • #16
    • September 7, 2016, at 3:53 PM PDT
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  17. Petty Boozswha Inactive

    I have little respect for Sean or the other detractors, but I do admire Hugh Hewitt. Hugh today said if Scalia had not died he could condone sitting out this election, but that the next four years will shape the courts for the rest of our lifetimes so therefore we have to vote Trump. I’m sure that’s why Mark Levin has thrown in the towel as well. I still believe Trump is fundamentally unfit for the office, but I am softening on my judgment of those that will vote for him, especially Ryan. I am so depressed I think this will be my last comment on Ricochet until after the election.

    • #17
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:18 PM PDT
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  18. ParisParamus Member
    ParisParamus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Am I the only one who is reassured in my decision to support Trump by this podcast?

    • #18
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:30 PM PDT
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  19. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Petty Boozswha: I have little respect for Sean or the other detractors, but I do admire Hugh Hewitt. Hugh today said if Scalia had not died he could condone sitting out this election, but that the next four years will shape the courts for the rest of our lifetimes so therefore we have to vote Trump.

    I only watch Hannity if I’ve watched MSNBC or CNN and find myself badly in need of a pro Trump Republican fix. Hugh Hewitt is an inspiration as he has come on board after being a Cruz supporter, and he constantly reminds his audience of the importance of the Supreme Court. He knows Trump, has interviewed him many times and believes he will do what he has promised to do with the wall and the Supreme Court. Please do post some more as we need former Nevers to help preserve the court and defeat the dirty Democrats by voting for Trump.



    • #19
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:30 PM PDT
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  20. Bill Nelson Member

    Viator:NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It

    “Over the last 25 years, neither the intellectuals nor the Party leaders of the NeverTrump crowd has prevented, or even slowed, the Left’s march through our cultural institutions. And now, to round out their litany of failure, they urge us to give the Left permanent possession of the presidency and the federal judiciary.”

    Trump is the most liberal Republican candidate in recent history, since Nixon. Trump is a big government guy, a guy who sees how Obama governs with regulation and sees that as an useful toolset. Remember, only Trump can solve our problems.

    As a NeverEverTrumplodite, the main problem I have is that he is fairly close to Hillary.

    He will push his daughters issue of pay inequality. Count on it.

    • #20
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:31 PM PDT
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  21. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Merrijane: May this election be remembered as some kind of weird anomaly.

    I agree with you there. It has surely be tumultuous. But I beg you to reconsider and vote for Trump. A Clinton victory will assure that we lose the Supreme Court to the liberals for a lifetime. Hugh Hewitt and a whole host of respected Republicans believe he will appoint conservatives. If you question whether he will follow through with the court and other things then you might take into account that he has surrounded himself with conservative people, not liberals.

    • #21
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:38 PM PDT
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  22. Umbra Fractus Coolidge
    Umbra Fractus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Peter Meza:OK, so what are you (Jonah and Jay) going to do regarding the election? The whole discussion is irrelevant to the election. What are you going to do?:

    1. Vote for Hillary?
    2. Vote for a third party candidate?
    3. Not vote?
    4. What do you recommend that we do?

    We’ve got the point loud and clear that you both think both Trump (and giving you the benefit of the doubt, Hillary) are terrible candidates.

    I suspect they’d say the same thing I do: Do what your conscience tells you to do, and treat those of us who’ve come to a different conclusion with respect. The majority of the Never Trump crowd aren’t trying to change anyone’s mind. The only thing we ask is that y’all stop lying about what we believe and stop trotting out the same tired arguments that you should know by now don’t work. And for the love of all that is holy stop telling us to shut up!

    • #22
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:40 PM PDT
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  23. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Eugene Kriegsmann: For me, there is no win in this election no matter who wins.

    Well, in a case like that, why not vote for Trump? What do you have to lose?

    • #23
    • September 7, 2016, at 4:41 PM PDT
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  24. Lois Lane Coolidge

    @billnelson, And what’s more, as he marches towards that liberal vision, he will have been given permission. There is no opposition party left. As someone else says, 86% of registered Republicans are on the Trump Train no matter where Trump drives it, so there you have it.

    Anyway, I’m with Jay. I find the whole “you must vote for Clinton or she will eat your babies and throw you in a gulag and cook your dog” argument exceptionally tiring. I already know if she cooked my dog, she’d lie and say she cooked my cat. That’s why I won’t vote for her. But I am afraid the Donald would cook my dog and just say the dog had it coming because he’s of foreign descent and thinks too different. (America First!!!)

    Either way… the dog gets it. :)

    In all seriousness, the thing I’m left with most of the time is that the Republican Party has not cared as deeply about the principles I thought until a few months ago that it represented. That’s fine, but I meant it when I owned those principles. And I’ll proudly go into the political wilderness with people like Jay and Jonah.

    Thanks for the podcast. I’ll buy your books. I do not require conformity.

    • #24
    • September 7, 2016, at 5:00 PM PDT
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  25. Nerina Bellinger Member

    Anyone with even a passing acquaintance with both Jay’s and Jonah’s writing would know there is no need to give them the “benefit of the doubt” where Hillary is concerned. Their disdain for her and all of Clinton Inc. is well-documented.

    • #25
    • September 7, 2016, at 5:37 PM PDT
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  26. LowcountryJoe Inactive

    Peter Meza:OK, so what are you (Jonah and Jay) going to do regarding the election? The whole discussion is irrelevant to the election. What are you going to do?:

    1. Vote for Hillary?
    2. Vote for a third party candidate?
    3. Not vote?
    4. What do you recommend that we do?

    We’ve got the point loud and clear that you both think both Trump (and giving you the benefit of the doubt, Hillary) are terrible candidates.

    Give them the benefit of the doubt? Why the heck would you doubt their disdain of HRC and her policies. Goldberg wrote Liberal Fascism, numerous op/eds decimating the Left, and has extolled the virtues of limited government…and you have doubts? Heck, look no further than at our candidate to understand the concerns they bring up regarding the man’s character.
    *I did not even see the comment just before this one until I submitted mine. It seems like I copied Nerina Bellinger but I swear I did not.

    • #26
    • September 7, 2016, at 6:14 PM PDT
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  27. LowcountryJoe Inactive

    goldwaterwoman:

    Eugene Kriegsmann: For me, there is no win in this election no matter who wins.

    Well, in a case like that, why not vote for Trump? What do you have to lose?

    Because you don’t feel like you have to take a shower (or antacids) after writing-in some random Disney character and then filing out the rest of the down-ticket with Republicans.

    • #27
    • September 7, 2016, at 6:22 PM PDT
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  28. LowcountryJoe Inactive

    goldwaterwoman:The time for choosing is over. If you consider yourselves a Republican, we have a candidate who was duly elected during the primaries and confirmed at the convention. If you are working against the Republican candidate, then you are helping the other side to win. 86% of Republicans support Trump. It is time to either help elect him or get out of the way.

    Get out of the way? Those 14% that do not support Trump probably understand that his stance on trade alone is an affront to capitalism and not something that should be defended.

    • #28
    • September 7, 2016, at 6:30 PM PDT
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  29. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    LowcountryJoe: Get out of the way? Those 14% that do not support Trump probably understand that his stance on trade alone is an affront to capitalism and not something that should be defended.

    What is it that you people don’t get? He’s not against trade; he just wants fair trade. How many times does he need to say it? Do you seriously think a successful businessman is against capitalism? Tell me, why is this wealthy man not sitting on silk cushions in one of his fabulous homes and eating bon bons instead of working himself to death out there crossing the country to convince Americans we need a change? And, submitting himself to all this criticism. He needs this like a hole in the head.

    • #29
    • September 7, 2016, at 7:09 PM PDT
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  30. LowcountryJoe Inactive

    goldwaterwoman:

    LowcountryJoe: Get out of the way? Those 14% that do not support Trump probably understand that his stance on trade alone is an affront to capitalism and not something that should be defended.

    What is it that you people don’t get? He’s not against trade; he just wants fair trade. How many times does he need to say it? Do you seriously think a successful businessman is against capitalism? Tell me, why is this wealthy man not sitting on silk cushions in one of his fabulous homes and eating bon bons instead of working himself to death out there crossing the country to convince Americans we need a change? And, submitting himself to all this criticism. He needs this like a hole in the head.

    I don’t get what ‘fair’ trade is; explain it to me. Explain how China & Mexico are “killing us on trade”? Anyone that knows anything about this topic knows that he’s 100 percent wrong about this.

    I seriously believe that he’s been against surrendering previously negotiated value from his end of a contract — the consideration needed [see article]. Also, does Vera Coking ring a bell?

    Some people think that he’s been going broke for a while now and is using the attention from this campaign to prop-up the only successful business he still has going — attaching his name-brand to other people’s things and receiving royalties from it.

    • #30
    • September 7, 2016, at 7:35 PM PDT
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