Jay talks with Jonah Goldberg about his writing life, his dogs, his political thought. Bill Buckley, Charles Krauthammer, Donald Trump. Music, sports, food. “Life its ownself,” or at least significant slices. Jonah is in splendid form, expressing joy even when the topics are unjoyful, somehow. 

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  1. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    I listened to the previous interview with the NYT reporter. It was pretty good. It is good for me to listen to a wide range of views on current issues.  It was a minor irritant to hear the interviewer interject his whiney self-pitying references to his anti-Trump stance.  I won’t listen to this current one.  I imagine it will be infantile snark squared. Correct me if I am wrong.

    • #1
  2. Jonah Goldberg Contributor
    Jonah Goldberg
    @jonahgoldberg

    You seem swell, Boney.

    Is that enough snark for you?

    • #2
  3. Al Sparks Thatcher
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    So Jay has an interview style that is a bit too obsequious for me.  I compare his style (not his morals) to the now disgraced Charlie Rose.  But whenever he has Kevin Williamson on, it’s just two pals talking, and I enjoy those.  I expected the same style with Jonah, and wasn’t disappointed.

    I’ll say from the beginning that I’m one of those Jonah fans that has become disappointed in his stances.  When he says that he’s changed his mind about a lot of Liberal Facism, it’s a marker that indicates he has changed, despite Jay’s remark that we’re looking at the same Jonah.

    For me, LF, was his peak as a writer.

    I do still follow him on his public facing, outside the paywall stuff, like The Remnant, and The GFile.  I also follow his Twitter feed (I’m a Twitter lurker and don’t post).  Like with Kevin, I can respect the difference in opinion.  But when he talks about how he has been attacked by conservatives that have changed on him (but remember he’s the one who is partially backtracking on LF) he doesn’t seem to realize that he’s become a bit of a prig in the way he expresses his views.  I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of his hostility comes from his Twitter activity.

    My view on Trump’s character isn’t very far off from Jonah’s or Jay’s.  Even as I’ve supported him, I haven’t tried to hide from myself who and what he is.  And of course, how he handled himself after his election court challenges died out was too much for me (as was his Covid press conferences which probably was the beginning of the end in the upcoming election results).

    Probably what colors my stances towards the last four years is the Flight 93 Election.  While I take Jonah’s point that it was a bit overwrought, I really do think it was only a bit overwrought.  I’m not saying that ironically.

    I do think we’re dealing with a Left that has so little in common with my world view, there really isn’t room for compromise.  And given that, I’m willing to vote for someone who won’t cut spending, doesn’t believe in free trade, and flirts with a populism that can be dangerous.

    When I look at the alternative, I’ll go with Trump, or looking towards the future – hopefully a more reasonable replacement that fights.  I’m not ashamed of my support for Trump, but I’m not wedded to him continuing to lead the fight.  Politicians are tools for me, just as I as a voter is a tool for them, and I don’t get emotionally involved, and haven’t since 1976 (Reagan’s run against Ford; I was young).

    I tend to think that policy matters more than character, but let’s look at alternatives there too.  Obama, when you really take a closer look, is a liar and a cheat, who is a good family man.  Everyone focuses on the good family man (so was Richard Nixon; Obama’s and Nixon’s presidencies have a lot in common).  Kennedy, Johnson, both Clintons…

    And as Jay wrote at one time, but stopped, Carter’s character is overrated too.

    The republic doens’t depend on good character.

    George W. Bush is an honorable man, but when it came to hardball politics, he wouldn’t fight.  So much for character.

    I’ve heard Jonah be dismissive of the “at least he fights” argument, but that’s where I’m at.  And I wouldn’t mind the disagreement, if Jonah weren’t so hostile to people who advance it.

    Not everyone who opposes him is Sebastian Gorka.  I wish he’d stop treating most of his opponents on the Right like they were.  And he probably would be a better pundit if he got off Twitter.

    • #3
  4. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Jonah is one of my people, one of my tribe. 

    I loved how he and Jay described themselves as being Reaganite, as the word “Conservative” was not specific enough.  Me too.

    Damn. I miss Charles Krauthammer and WFB.    

    I am looking for Jonah’s Remnant becoming the majority voice in conservatism.  

    This is one of the best podcasts of the year.

    • #4
  5. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    Just the right amont.

    • #5
  6. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    Not as infantile as usual, though.

    • #6
  7. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    Never in my wildest Ricochet dreams would I have imagined that a celebrity Ricochet personality would respond to one of my observations,  particularly due to my debased social status (I am a mining engineer from southern West Virginia).  That a famous Washington insider would deign to notice me is in some ways disturbing.  Is the world turning upside down?  Jonah, I cannot imagine that you are reading this, but if you are, I have a sincere question.  Were you an active part of the nationwide confederacy of the elites described in the Time article?  If so, I would be interested in some behind the details about how it was organized, and how remunerative it was.  Was the Bulwark as lavishly funded in this enterprise as the Lincoln Project?

    • #7
  8. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Never in my wildest Ricochet dreams would I have imagined that a celebrity Ricochet personality would respond to one of my observations, particularly due to my debased social status (I am a mining engineer from southern West Virginia). That a famous Washington insider would deign to notice me is in some ways disturbing. Is the world turning upside down? Jonah, I cannot imagine that you are reading this, but if you are, I have a sincere question. Were you an active part of the nationwide confederacy of the elites described in the Time article? If so, I would be interested in some behind the details about how it was organized, and how remunerative it was. Was the Bulwark as lavishly funded in this enterprise as the Lincoln Project?

    Jonah is the Editor-in-Chief of The Dispatch, not The Bulwark.  This is like saying that Babe Ruth played for the Brooklyn Dodgers.  The Dodgers are a baseball team that played in New York City, but they are distinct from the Yankees, for better or worse.

    • #8
  9. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    I stand corrected.   My knowledge of the proliferation of lavishly funded elite anti-Tump organizations is shamefully lacking.

    • #9
  10. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    As one of the top five world experts on myself and my motivations I’m going to want y’all to provide some proof of racism. 

    • #10
  11. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    I stand corrected. My knowledge of the proliferation of lavishly funded elite anti-Tump organizations is shamefully lacking.

    The Dispatch is reader funded.  On the other hand, the day it was announced I invested the full amount for a “lifetime” membership in it as an affirmation of Jonah and Steve.  I have been greatly rewarded, as they have added David French and Chris Stirewalt.

    Also, as opposed to The Bulwark which is strongly Anti-Trump, The Dispatch is Trump-Neutral/Skeptic, and will note his strengths and weaknesses.

    • #11
  12. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    I went to the Dispatch web site and clicked on « about ».   It did not say how they were funded.  It is true that you have to pay for the content.  Looking at the content and authors, I would be surprised if they were entirely, or even mostly reader supported, unless you include the guys who gave them a lot of money as « readers ». I would be very interested in a definitive statement from them on their funding.  I read Mr. Goldberg’s most recent column.  As part of his unfunny patter he had a gratuitous (and infantile) mockery of Rep. Gaetz.  This reminds me of the Glop episode where they made fun of Rep. Nunes at the beginning of the Russia hoax. Turns out Nunes was right. They were wrong. 

    • #12
  13. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    I must say, I read and listened to Mr. Goldberg for several years, and mentally filtered out the gratuitous and infantile aspects.  The remaining parts became smaller, and the supposed serous content became more and more trivial downright wrong, till little of interest was left.  The reading of his Dispatch column today confirmed it for me.  He has become a well funded self-regarding Washington elitist. 

    • #13
  14. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    I stand corrected. My knowledge of the proliferation of lavishly funded elite anti-Tump organizations is shamefully lacking.

    The Dispatch is reader funded. On the other hand, the day it was announced I invested the full amount for a “lifetime” membership in it as an affirmation of Jonah and Steve. I have been greatly rewarded, as they have added David French and Chris Stirewalt.

    Also, as opposed to The Bulwark which is strongly Anti-Trump, The Dispatch is Trump-Neutral/Skeptic, and will note his strengths and weaknesses.

    The Bulwark is not just anti-trump – it is not very conservative. Many of the writers could be writing for the HuffPo 

    The writers of the Dispatch are consistent with their views prior to Trump 

    • #14
  15. Joseph Stocks Member
    Joseph Stocks
    @JosephStocks

    While most of us are enjoying the side by side comparison of DeSantis and Cuomo regarding their pandemic performance, Jonah has to tell us he’ll never forgive DeSantis for being too Trumpy in his 2018 gubernatorial campaign. 

    That’s our Jonah; petty and without substance. 

    • #15
  16. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    Yes, Jonah and his Glop buddies were condescendingly contemptuous of DeSantis when he was running against Gillum.  One got the impression that he prefers that all ‘Trump’ conservatives would lose, even to radicals like Gillum.  Think of all the additional human suffering that would have taken place is DeSantis had lost.  Jonah may have later admitted his error, I no longer read him. 

    • #16
  17. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    While most of us are enjoying the side by side comparison of DeSantis and Cuomo regarding their pandemic performance, Jonah has to tell us he’ll never forgive DeSantis for being too Trumpy in his 2018 gubernatorial campaign.

    In the 2018 Republican Primary for Governor, there was a strong conservative Adam Putnam who had served in Congress for 10 years and was the #3 Republican for two years, then served as Florida’s Agriculture Commissioner for 8 years.  He was the favorite in the Republican Primary until DeSantis had his funny but toadying ads adoring Trump.  Trump endorsed DeSantis and Putnam lost.  

     

    • #17
  18. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    Florida Republicans chose a candidate who aligned himself with Trump policiers.  The Florida electorate chose a candidate who aligned himself with Trump policies.  It has worked out fantastically well for them. 

    • #18
  19. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    While most of us are enjoying the side by side comparison of DeSantis and Cuomo regarding their pandemic performance, Jonah has to tell us he’ll never forgive DeSantis for being too Trumpy in his 2018 gubernatorial campaign.

    In the 2018 Republican Primary for Governor, there was a strong conservative Adam Putnam who had served in Congress for 10 years and was the #3 Republican for two years, then served as Florida’s Agriculture Commissioner for 8 years. He was the favorite in the Republican Primary until DeSantis had his funny but toadying ads adoring Trump. Trump endorsed DeSantis and Putnam lost.

     

    And that’s worked out pretty well for Florida.  DeSantis is one of the best governors in the country and is currently the odds-on favorite for the Republican 2024 Presidential nomination.

     

    • #19
  20. Pagodan Member
    Pagodan
    @MatthewBaylot

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Never in my wildest Ricochet dreams would I have imagined that a celebrity Ricochet personality would respond to one of my observations, particularly due to my debased social status (I am a mining engineer from southern West Virginia). That a famous Washington insider would deign to notice me is in some ways disturbing. Is the world turning upside down? Jonah, I cannot imagine that you are reading this, but if you are, I have a sincere question. Were you an active part of the nationwide confederacy of the elites described in the Time article? If so, I would be interested in some behind the details about how it was organized, and how remunerative it was. Was the Bulwark as lavishly funded in this enterprise as the Lincoln Project?

    Jonah is the Editor-in-Chief of The Dispatch, not The Bulwark. This is like saying that Babe Ruth played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. The Dodgers are a baseball team that played in New York City, but they are distinct from the Yankees, for better or worse.

    Same owners yo

    • #20
  21. Pagodan Member
    Pagodan
    @MatthewBaylot

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Joseph Stocks (View Comment):

    While most of us are enjoying the side by side comparison of DeSantis and Cuomo regarding their pandemic performance, Jonah has to tell us he’ll never forgive DeSantis for being too Trumpy in his 2018 gubernatorial campaign.

    In the 2018 Republican Primary for Governor, there was a strong conservative Adam Putnam who had served in Congress for 10 years and was the #3 Republican for two years, then served as Florida’s Agriculture Commissioner for 8 years. He was the favorite in the Republican Primary until DeSantis had his funny but toadying ads adoring Trump. Trump endorsed DeSantis and Putnam lost.

     

    And DeSantis has turned out to be a pretty good governor. So, the silly pettiness about DeSantis “Trumpy” campaign commercial in light of everything he knows after is not a great look. As for Putnam, well lets be honest, Charlie Crist was a GOP favorite at one point…

    • #21
  22. Samuel Block Support
    Samuel Block
    @SamuelBlock

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Never in my wildest Ricochet dreams would I have imagined that a celebrity Ricochet personality would respond to one of my observations, particularly due to my debased social status (I am a mining engineer from southern West Virginia). That a famous Washington insider would deign to notice me is in some ways disturbing. Is the world turning upside down? 

    But what if he wasn’t deigning? Maybe he was just noticing you the way normal people do.

    • #22
  23. Theodoric of Freiberg Member
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    This is a good podcast. The only part that stuck in my craw was the self flagellation on racism. That is completely undeserved.

    • #23
  24. Boney Cole Member
    Boney Cole
    @BoneyCole

    @theodoricoffreiberg, of course you are correct. It was an infantile response on my part.  Let the record show, I regret that response.  I did get around to a more substantive response later in the comment thread. 

    • #24
  25. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    Pagodan (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Never in my wildest Ricochet dreams would I have imagined that a celebrity Ricochet personality would respond to one of my observations, particularly due to my debased social status (I am a mining engineer from southern West Virginia). That a famous Washington insider would deign to notice me is in some ways disturbing. Is the world turning upside down? Jonah, I cannot imagine that you are reading this, but if you are, I have a sincere question. Were you an active part of the nationwide confederacy of the elites described in the Time article? If so, I would be interested in some behind the details about how it was organized, and how remunerative it was. Was the Bulwark as lavishly funded in this enterprise as the Lincoln Project?

    Jonah is the Editor-in-Chief of The Dispatch, not The Bulwark. This is like saying that Babe Ruth played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. The Dodgers are a baseball team that played in New York City, but they are distinct from the Yankees, for better or worse.

    Same owners yo

    Nope. 

    • #25
  26. Pagodan Member
    Pagodan
    @MatthewBaylot

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Pagodan (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Boney Cole (View Comment):

    Never in my wildest Ricochet dreams would I have imagined that a celebrity Ricochet personality would respond to one of my observations, particularly due to my debased social status (I am a mining engineer from southern West Virginia). That a famous Washington insider would deign to notice me is in some ways disturbing. Is the world turning upside down? Jonah, I cannot imagine that you are reading this, but if you are, I have a sincere question. Were you an active part of the nationwide confederacy of the elites described in the Time article? If so, I would be interested in some behind the details about how it was organized, and how remunerative it was. Was the Bulwark as lavishly funded in this enterprise as the Lincoln Project?

    Jonah is the Editor-in-Chief of The Dispatch, not The Bulwark. This is like saying that Babe Ruth played for the Brooklyn Dodgers. The Dodgers are a baseball team that played in New York City, but they are distinct from the Yankees, for better or worse.

    Same owners yo

    Nope.

    Sure bro, cause you say so. 

    • #26