Screen Shot 2016-05-20 at 3.44.59 PMDavid French — lawyer, writer, soldier, father — and decent, humane man joins Mona and Jay to discuss matters of conscience and how to cope with the Republican Party’s embrace of an unstable, fascistic showman. The only good thing to emerge from the Year of Trump may be the demonstrated integrity of those who staunchly oppose him.

Music: “Ombra mai fu” from Handel’s opera “Xerxes” by George Frederich Handel. The voice sounds like a woman, but is actually a male countertenor.

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There are 61 comments.

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  1. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    “fascistic,” seriously?

    • #1
  2. Lucy Pevensie Inactive
    Lucy Pevensie
    @LucyPevensie

    TeamAmerica:“fascistic,” seriously?

    Yes. Absolutely seriously.

    • #2
  3. Lucy Pevensie Inactive
    Lucy Pevensie
    @LucyPevensie

    By the way, if you want to express your support for an alternate political reality in this nightmare year, follow Bill Kristol’s @RenegadeParty on Twitter.

    • #3
  4. Robert Zubrin Inactive
    Robert Zubrin
    @RobertZubrin

    I think describing Trumpism  as “national socialist” (NB not National Socialist) rather than “fascist” is more accurate. It certainly represents an odious combination of nationalism with socialism, but lacks the militarism and symbology that characterized traditional fascist movements. On the other hand, the pathological fascistic worship of the great leader is clearly evident.

    History never repeats itself, but it does rhyme.

    • #4
  5. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Lucy, Trump has been a public figure since at least the eighties, so if he has antisemitic or racist views, I think they would’ve been expressed before. Granted he can be boorish and crude, and I worry about some of his authoritarian promises, like forcing corporations to return production to the US; but no, I don’t see him as any kind of fascist.

    • #5
  6. blood thirsty neocon Inactive
    blood thirsty neocon
    @bloodthirstyneocon

    The only good thing to emerge from the Year of Trump may be the demonstrated integrity of those who staunchly oppose him.

    Don’t pull a muscle patting yourselves on the back.

    • #6
  7. Lucy Pevensie Inactive
    Lucy Pevensie
    @LucyPevensie

    “This is how fascism comes to America.”

    • #7
  8. Lily Bart Inactive
    Lily Bart
    @LilyBart

    TeamAmerica:“fascistic,” seriously?

    How about “authoritarian”?

    • #8
  9. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Lucy Pevensie:

    TeamAmerica:“fascistic,” seriously?

    Yes. Absolutely seriously.

    My parents lived in both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

    If they were alive they would not stop laughing.

    • #9
  10. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Robert Zubrin:I think describing Trumpism as “national socialist” (NB not National Socialist) rather than “fascist” is more accurate. It certainly represents an odious combination of nationalism with socialism, but lacks the militarism and symbology that characterized traditional fascist movements. On the other hand, the pathological fascistic worship of the great leader is clearly evident.

    History never repeats itself, but it does rhyme.

    No pictures of flag waving Nazi’s this time?

    • #10
  11. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    blood thirsty neocon:

    The only good thing to emerge from the Year of Trump may be the demonstrated integrity of those who staunchly oppose him.

    Don’t pull a muscle patting yourselves on the back.

    • #11
  12. Damocles Inactive
    Damocles
    @Damocles

    Robert Zubrin: I think describing Trumpism as “national socialist” (NB not National Socialist)

    You realize how goofy (or is it Goofy? or gOOFy?) you sound trying to convince people that you don’t believe labelling somebody as a “national socialist” is different than labelling them a “National Socialist.”

    Fortunately nobody believes that Trump supporters are Nazis anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.

    Up your game, man!

    • #12
  13. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    FWIW, Mark Steyn has a different take on the election, as I posted earlier:  http://ricochet.com/mark-steyn-on-the-lolita-express-hillary-and-conservatives-voting-for-her/#comment-3329097

    • #13
  14. Ario IronStar Inactive
    Ario IronStar
    @ArioIronStar

    Remember back in July ’15 when Jay and Mona were incredulous that Trump had any traction at all, and they blamed the purer-than-pure right for creating the conditions that opened the door for him?  Yep, there they are obliquely referring to it.

    Now Jay and Mona won’t vote for Trump because he’s a liberal.

    Jay and Mona know just where to draw the line on purity.  This is foolish purity.  That’s beyond the pale.  Only Jay and Mona know for sure.

    And David French knows that Hillary will be no worse than Trump.  Wishful thinking is evidently just a sin of others.

    • #14
  15. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Fascistic?  If he were running as a democrat perhaps, but still it’s a stretch.  The fascists throughout Europe and their intellectual mentors were former members of the Socialist International.  Nationalism was the flavor of the day so fascists used nationalism opportunistically as the road to socialism.   Opportunism was  the core of fascism both tactically and strategically.  Mussolini was a clown and a charlatan and that fits, but not the fascism, at least in no measure equivalent to Obama, Hillary and most especially much of the academic elite.  Our confusions about fascism are many.  The Falangists were right wing but were not fascists yet helped confuse America’s left.  Hitler rose to power on the backs of the socialists but he was unique and not a fascist.  Lenin called fascism the last stage of capitalism and that stuck, but the fascists and communists hated each other with such a passion because they were competing for the same people in the same ideological space.   The fascists had split the socialist international and could not be forgiven, on the other hand the socialist international was a front for Russian nationalism.   My fear of Trump has been that he will teach Democrats and progressives that nationalism now works for them as well.  The cold war is over, the US is now the socialist homeland.   Get over the misplaced pacifism, you won.    The nanny state, the welfare state, the administrative state and the military industrial state all in one.  That is scary.

    • #15
  16. Max Ledoux Coolidge
    Max Ledoux
    @Max

    Mona, re: “if you want peace prepare for war,” listen to this:

    Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail
    Once you provoke her, rattling of her tail
    Never begins it, never, but once engaged
    Never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage
    Don’t tread on me

    So be it
    Threaten no more
    To secure peace is to prepare for war
    So be it
    Settle the score
    Touch me again for the words that you’ll hear evermore
    Don’t tread on me

    Love it or leave it, she with the deadly bite
    Quick is the blue tongue, forked as lighting strike
    Shining with brightness, always on surveillance
    The eyes, they never close, emblem of vigilance
    Don’t tread on me

    So be it
    Threaten no more
    To secure peace is to prepare for war
    So be it
    Settle the score
    Touch me again for the words that you’ll hear evermore

    Don’t tread on me
    So be it
    Threaten no more
    To secure peace is to prepare for war
    Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail
    Once you provoke her, rattling on her tail

    So be it
    Threaten no more
    To secure peace is to prepare for war
    So be it
    Settle the score
    Touch me again for the words that you’ll hear evermore
    Don’t tread on me

    • #16
  17. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Lucy Pevensie:“This is how fascism comes to America.”

    Okay, so what about this: http://ricochet.com/fascism-not-thee/

    • #17
  18. TeamAmerica Member
    TeamAmerica
    @TeamAmerica

    Lily Bart:

    TeamAmerica:“fascistic,” seriously?

    How about “authoritarian”?

    Possibly, but only if you take his rhetoric as being iron-clad promises that he won’t later modify. I assume the latter, but yes I am concerned.

    • #18
  19. Sleepywhiner Inactive
    Sleepywhiner
    @Sleepywhiner

    I appreciate the litany of reasons to be #nevertrump.  I’ve made many of those arguments myself.  I even, briefly, flirted with #nevertrump, and I may yet NOT vote for him.

    I haven’t yet decided.

    If you look at Trump as his positions are designed to win and are thus targeted at the general electorate, maybe it makes more sense.

    In this case, to know what he will actually do, you need to know what is at his core, and I agree that most of us don’t know what that core is.

    He’s a wholly imperfect vessel, and he flirts with the alt-right too closely.  But…i think I am leaning toward wishful thinking, and away from certainly bad.

    • #19
  20. Vespacon Inactive
    Vespacon
    @Vespacon

    Mona, Jay, and David,

    Thanks for all you have said on the subject of Trump in this and on previous podcasts. Thanks also for your support of Bill Kristol and others like him. My membership here is due to expire soon and while I am content to move along quietly, I didn’t want to leave without letting you all know how much I admire the consistent position you all have taken during this painful campaign season.

    • #20
  21. Richard Fulmer Inactive
    Richard Fulmer
    @RichardFulmer

    I think that Trump’s biggest attraction to voters is that he absolves them of any blame for the failures in their lives by shifting the blame to China, Mexico, and global trade.  As proof, consider the wave of outrage that hit Kevin D. Williamson when he dared suggest that a hypothetical person – unemployed, living by disability fraud, and located in a dying town – should suck it up, move, and get a job.  Trump supporters became unglued at Kevin’s “insensitivity.”

    Their reaction says far more about them than it does about Williamson.  First, it shows they’re not conservatives – what conservative ever believed that people are not responsible for their own lives, actions, and inactions?  Second, it shows that they know nothing about economics.  Despite Trump’s claims, China did not “manipulate” its currency.  Until recently, China had the yuan pegged to the dollar while the Federal Reserve was manipulating our currency.

    Global trade isn’t responsible for a manufacturing decline in the United States because there is no manufacturing decline.  We’re producing more goods than ever, but we’re doing it with fewer people.  As a percentage of the labor force, manufacturing peaked during World War II or shortly thereafter.  In total numbers employed, manufacturing peaked in the 1970s.  If you need something to blame, blame technological progress.

    • #21
  22. Lori McGuire Member
    Lori McGuire
    @LoriMcGuire

    Mona and Jay – I would love it if you could arrange an interview with conservative talk radio host Dennis Prager  He is no Trump fan but believes that Hillary and Leftism pose a far greater threat to America than Trump.  I think the 3 of you could have a fascinating conversation.

    • #22
  23. captain zombo Inactive
    captain zombo
    @captainzombo

    Mona and Jay – I have enjoyed your conversations over the past couple of years and have listened to nearly every podcast you have produced. Unfortunately, with the presumptive nomination of Donald Trump, the past few podcasts have been utterly permeated with your hostility to Trump. So much so that they are becoming unlistenable. I managed to get through about ten minutes of your most recent podcast before I finally shut it off and deleted it.

    If you are trying to persuade others to the NeverTrump position, you are failing. Donald Trump is a loathsome figure and the Republican party has severely disfigured itself by nominating him. Nevertheless, a large number of prominent Republican voices are reluctantly supporting him – arguing mainly as the lesser of two evils.

    The 2016 election will ultimately be a choice between two loathsome candidates – neither of which I would ever support.  Between now and November, Donald Trump will have to demonstrate his fitness for the Presidency. While I remain deeply skeptical that he can, I am willing to at least give him the chance to earn my vote.

    Can we please just take a break and find something better to talk about?

    • #23
  24. Benjamin Glaser Inactive
    Benjamin Glaser
    @BenjaminGlaser

    I hope that this popping back up to the top of the feed doesn’t mean Ricochet is in on this depressing Bill Kristol move.

    • #24
  25. Al Sparks Thatcher
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    I have to agree with a previous poster regarding Mona’s hostility towards Trump.  Mona sounds like she’s about to go over the edge.  And when you act like that, you’re probably not going to convince the undecided.  The only people that will listen will be the choir that likes to be preached to.

    As it happens, if she’s looking for someone to emulate, perhaps she should look no farther than Jay, who makes it clear he’s against Trump, but doesn’t give the impression he’s going to spit at you if you decide to vote for him.

    Realizing that politics is what Mona does, she should try to move onto something else for awhile.

    • #25
  26. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    How long before Glenn Beck is made a contributor?

    • #26
  27. Al Sparks Thatcher
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    I’ve had the good fortune to meet David French, who is very personable.  And he doesn’t look like Vladimir Putin.  But that picture up above?  Maybe something else should be substituted.

    • #27
  28. Tom Riehl Inactive
    Tom Riehl
    @TrinityWaters

    The lead in is great!  Unstable and Fascistic.   What the hell does that even mean?  Tiresome, unoriginal rhetoric.

    I fear that Mona is disconnected from reality.  Let’s all crown Hillary now and save six months of angst.  Give up!  You staunch opposers are in league with the devil.  Crikey; read Jonah’s book about liberal Fascism, written before he took leave of his senses.

    There, I said it!  CoC me!  I’ll bet I gather a lot of likes…

    • #28
  29. goldwaterwoman Thatcher
    goldwaterwoman
    @goldwaterwoman

    Donald Trump defeated 16 highly qualified candidates. The voters have spoken. I didn’t want Romney in 2012 and rooted for Gingrich, but Romney  was our candidate so I voted for him. Millions of our fellow Republicans stayed home and voted for no one. I respect them more than I do you people who are actively working against Trump and are only helping the Democrats. You are wrong about Trump votes Mona. It’s easy to look  up. Trump has more votes at this stage of the primaries than Romney. Don’t take someone else’s word for it.  Google Romney primary votes 2012 vs Trump 2016.

    • #29
  30. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Say baby eating next time.

    Since you’re going to be irrelevant in 6 months go out full frontal.

    • #30
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