Is that the standard now? Jay and Mona consider the travails of Virginia’s governor, Rep. Ilhan Omar, Elizabeth Warren and many others in this age of shame and shamelessness. They also talk Green New Deal, Kim Jong Un, and much more.

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There are 20 comments.

  1. Member

    I am really confused about Rep. Ilhan Omar. Mona and Jay had little problem with her, accepting her apology, and saying that what she needs is to be educated on these things. But, according to Ben Shapiro, she has a history of saying anti-Semitic things. I doubt that a little education will cure that. 

    From what I read on Wikipedia, she has had a hard life. But that shouldn’t excuse her, if she has said bigoted things against Israel, one of are finest countries. I wish Mona and Jay had discussed her more in depth.

    • #1
    • February 12, 2019 at 11:19 am
    • 1 like
  2. Lincoln

    I love Mona’s line that she self identifies as 5’10” and blonde. I will have to use something similar to that in the future. I self identify as 6’4″ and full of muscle – and I’m from a land down under.

    • #2
    • February 12, 2019 at 1:09 pm
    • 1 like
  3. Member

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    I am really confused about Rep. Ilhan Omar. Mona and Jay had little problem with her, accepting her apology, and saying that what she needs is to be educated on these things.

    Good lord. This has to reach a tipping point eventually — a point where Jay and Mona are unable to lie to themselves anymore — where they’ll look with clear, steady eyes at the deck of the ship they’ve been insisting for two years is not sinking — the S.S. Democrat — and acknowledge that the bow is now 75 feet in the air.

    It has to happen.

    But when?

    (And I grant you — I freely concede — that the S.S. Republican slipped beneath the waves at least 3 years ago).

    • #3
    • February 12, 2019 at 3:49 pm
    • Like
  4. Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    I am really confused about Rep. Ilhan Omar. Mona and Jay had little problem with her, accepting her apology, and saying that what she needs is to be educated on these things.

    Good lord. This has to reach a tipping point eventually — a point where Jay and Mona are unable to lie to themselves anymore — where they’ll look with clear, steady eyes at the deck of the ship they’ve been insisting for two years is not sinking — the S.S. Democrat — and acknowledge that the bow is now 75 feet in the air.

    It has to happen.

    But when?

    (And I grant you — I freely concede — that the S.S. Republican slipped beneath the waves at least 3 years ago).

    I always did disagree with your pessimism, filmklassik. While pessimism is not quite as bad as cynicism, I believe they both lead the way to destruction. We will eventually right our ship. I agree that the Democrats are probably a lost cause. But there are some still some of us clear-eyed Republicans around who refuse to go down without a fight.

    • #4
    • February 12, 2019 at 5:16 pm
    • 1 like
  5. Thatcher
    DrR

    Excellent by Abe Greenwald of Commentary:

    “On Monday, Democrats called on Rep. Ilhan Omar to apologize for once again tweeting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, this time about rich Jews pulling the strings of American politicians. So she responded with a tweet apologizing “unequivocally” for not realizing that Jews were so touchy about anti-Semitism. And then, in thattweet, she trashed AIPAC for its “problematic role” in American politics.

    What’s the point, exactly, of asking anti-Semites—or any bigots—to apologize for their bigotry? There are a few ways to look at it. Do you want them to express regret about being bigoted? Do you want them to express regret about giving voice to their bigotry? Do you really just want them to do a better job of pretending not to be a bigot? In the end, it doesn’t matter, because none of these positions changes the fact of their bigotry. Omar’s very apology contained paranoia about AIPAC.

    I am shaking my head in disbelief at Mona & Jay charming and good natured reprimand to Rep. I Omar. I appreciate their faith in benefits of teachable moments and human potential. What terrifies me is their disbelief in the mature and well thought through malice of I Omar’s position.

    Yes, I am willing not to offer her any benefit of the doubt. Her age is not an indication of malleability. Her tweets are not accidental but a reflection of previously articulated positions.

    It is rather regrettable to see veterans of conservatives thought to be so sanguine in the face of naked bigotry.

    • #5
    • February 12, 2019 at 9:04 pm
    • 3 likes
  6. Member

    I’ve had another thought: I’ve been thinking about Jay, and I have to admit that I don’t understand him at all. I am very upset that Donald Trump is President too, and some of the things he says really embarrass me. His ignorance, combined with a need to satisfy that gargantuan ego is something I just can’t fathom.

    But Jay seems to take this to a whole other level. Why did he feel the need to almost apologize for saying the truth about the things Barack Obama did, just because we now have a man who seems to say even worse things at times? I still shake my head at his interview with Bill O’Reilly, where he said that we kill people too. I was just appalled. But does mean we need to go back and apologize to Obama? Seems strange to me.

    Mona is not like that. Some may say she should take Jay more to task. But they are friends. And she doesn’t think any better of Trump than Jay does. Now, as I told her, I might handle some things differently than she does; but this does not mean I think any less of her. I honestly believe that she takes being a lady very seriously, and that is part reason why she does not chastise Jay.

    Wanted to get that off my mind.

    • #6
    • February 13, 2019 at 7:51 am
    • Like
  7. Member

    DrR (View Comment):

     

    I am shaking my head in disbelief at Mona & Jay charming and good natured reprimand to Rep. I Omar. 

     

    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/all-of-a-piece-of-a-piece

     

    • #7
    • February 13, 2019 at 8:14 am
    • Like
  8. Member

    George Townsend (View Comment):

     

    But Jay seems to take this to a whole other level. Why did he feel the need to almost apologize for saying the truth about the things Barack Obama did, just because we now have a man who seems to say even worse things at times? 

    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/all-of-a-piece-of-a-piece

    • #8
    • February 13, 2019 at 8:17 am
    • Like
  9. Member
    EEM

    Will the real anti-Semite please stand up? 

    On Rep. Ilhan Omar: She has such an important personal story. We shouldn’t censor her but rather challenge her argument (paraphrasing Jay)

    On Candace Owens: “I would like to see some of the more brilliant and balanced and thoughtful young people emerge as leaders of the conservative movement rather than the likes of Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens and the other grifters and lunatics and ignoramuses who are currently held up as examples for the right” (quoting Mona, beginning @ 39 minute mark)

    I’m not defending Candace Owens–what she said was inelegant, ignorant. But I’m pretty sure she’s not an anti-Semite. Why not find out? Educate her, yes. But vilify her? Your derision seems misplaced. Candace Owens may not be a Yalie, but she’s pretty courageous. To stand up to the left, to take on its sacred cows, is tantamount to suicide in this day of Twitter mobs and public shaming. Yet neither of you could offer even a modicum of grace to her the way you did to the real anti-Semite. 

    • #9
    • February 17, 2019 at 9:11 am
    • 1 like
  10. Member

    EEM (View Comment):

    Will the real anti-Semite please stand up?

    On Rep. Ilhan Omar: She has such an important personal story. We shouldn’t censor her but rather challenge her argument (paraphrasing Jay)

    On Candace Owens: “I would like to see some of the more brilliant and balanced and thoughtful young people emerge as leaders of the conservative movement rather than the likes of Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens and the other grifters and lunatics and ignoramuses who are currently held up as examples for the right” (quoting Mona, beginning @ 39 minute mark)

    I’m not defending Candace Owens–what she said was inelegant, ignorant. But I’m pretty sure she’s not an anti-Semite. Why not find out? Educate her, yes. But vilify her? Your derision seems misplaced. Candace Owens may not be a Yalie, but she’s pretty courageous. To stand up to the left, to take on its sacred cows, is tantamount to suicide in this day of Twitter mobs and public shaming. Yet neither of you could offer even a modicum of grace to her the way you did to the real anti-Semite.

    Two things can be true at the same time. For example, Owens, Kirk, Milo, Alex Jones, etc. can be ugly reprehensible creeps …

    and Rep. Omar and much of the New Left can be anti-Semitic.

    • #10
    • February 17, 2019 at 9:53 am
    • 2 likes
  11. Member
    EEM

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    Two things can be true at the same time. For example, Owens, Kirk, Milo, Alex Jones, etc. can be ugly reprehensible creeps …

    and Rep. Omar and much of the New Left can be anti-Semitic.

    Can’t three things also be true at the same time?

    Much of the left can be anti-Semitic

    Owens (et al) can be ugly reprehensible creeps 

    Aforementioned creeps can be fighting against some of the same things non-reprehensible conservatives are fighting against? 

    • #11
    • February 17, 2019 at 10:45 am
    • 1 like
  12. Member

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    Two things can be true at the same time. For example, Owens, Kirk, Milo, Alex Jones, etc. can be ugly reprehensible creeps …

    and Rep. Omar and much of the New Left can be anti-Semitic.

    Can’t three things also be true at the same time?

    Much of the left can be anti-Semitic

    Owens (et al) can be ugly reprehensible creeps

    Aforementioned creeps can be fighting against some of the same things non-reprehensible conservatives are fighting against?

    You mean like Churchill & Roosevelt’s alliance with Stalin? Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. It had to be done.

    But Stalin was still a monster.

    • #12
    • February 17, 2019 at 11:53 am
    • 2 likes
  13. Member
    EEM

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    You mean like Churchill & Roosevelt’s alliance with Stalin? Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. It had to be done.

    But Stalin was still a monster.

    Really, people. She’s not a monster. 

    • #13
    • February 17, 2019 at 1:05 pm
    • Like
  14. Member

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    You mean like Churchill & Roosevelt’s alliance with Stalin? Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. It had to be done.

    But Stalin was still a monster.

    Really, people. She’s not a monster.

    Of course she’s not. But you yourself agreed that she is an ugly, reprehensible creep. Just scroll up a little and you’ll see what you wrote in black & white. You wrote it. And I’m agreeing with you. Owens and her ilk are ugly, reprehensible creeps who happen to oppose many of the same things the Jonah Goldberg/John Podhoretz/Kevin Williamson stripe of Conservatives oppose.

    So, yes, there is a real, ven-diagram overlap there.

    The question then becomes, How much of an overlap is there?

    And the follow-up question is, To what extent should that overlap blind us — or make us willfully ignore — the more odious aspects of Owens & company that makes them ugly, reprehensible and creepy?

    Do we ignore these aspects entirely, somewhat, or not at all?

    Do we point out their creepiness all the time, sometimes, or never?

    The Goldberg/Podhoretz/Williamson answer is: Point it out all the time — early and often — while at the same time pointing out the odiousness of the Left.

    The Nordlinger/Charen answer is: Point it out all the time — early and often — while downplaying (or ignoring, or eliding past) the odiousness of the Left.

    • #14
    • February 17, 2019 at 2:19 pm
    • Like
  15. Member
    EEM

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    You mean like Churchill & Roosevelt’s alliance with Stalin? Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. It had to be done.

    But Stalin was still a monster.

    Really, people. She’s not a monster.

    Of course she’s not. But you yourself agreed that she is an ugly, reprehensible creep. Just scroll up a little and you’ll see what you wrote in black & white. You wrote it. And I’m agreeing with you. Owens and her ilk are ugly, reprehensible creeps who happen to oppose many of the same things the Jonah Goldberg/John Podhoretz/Kevin Williamson stripe of Conservatives oppose.

    The Nordlinger/Charen answer is: Point it out all the time — early and often — while downplaying (or ignoring, or eliding past) the odiousness of the Left.

    Your last sentence is where we agree. That was the point of my original response. 

    And though you’re sort of correct in saying that I (myself) agreed with your assessment (“Ugly Reprehensible Creep”), to be perfectly honest, when I went back and re-read my response, I actually wish I’d added parenthetically that I actually didn’t agree with that description, at least as it applies to Candace Owens (maybe Milo–I don’t know who Kirk is, and I don’t listen to Alex Jones, so I take your word on them). But too late, I can’t go back in time and edit.

    Honestly, I was mostly just annoyed at how chivalrous Mona and Jay were to the actual anti-Semite and how harsh (Mona, in particular) was towards Candace Owens who is not an anti-Semite (the thing she said about Hitler and nationalism was dumb but not malicious). As for Candace Owens, I don’t follow her, I steer clear of Twitter, so I’m not tuned in to the kinds of things she says that justifies calling her a monster or a lunatic. I just see a brave young woman taking on the Black Lives Matter lie head on, trying to persuade fellow African Americans to stop buying into the false promises of the Democratic party. Is she ignorant? In over her head? Could she be more circumspect? More humble? Yes, on all counts. On the other hand, maybe she feels as if she’s fighting a lonely battle, which sometimes causes people to be more combative than they ought to be. Why this need to beat her up? 

    Thanks for your responses. 

     

    • #15
    • February 17, 2019 at 3:52 pm
    • 1 like
  16. Member

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    EEM (View Comment):

    You mean like Churchill & Roosevelt’s alliance with Stalin? Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. It had to be done.

    But Stalin was still a monster.

    Really, people. She’s not a monster.

    Of course she’s not. But you yourself agreed that she is an ugly, reprehensible creep. Just scroll up a little and you’ll see what you wrote in black & white. You wrote it. And I’m agreeing with you. Owens and her ilk are ugly, reprehensible creeps who happen to oppose many of the same things the Jonah Goldberg/John Podhoretz/Kevin Williamson stripe of Conservatives oppose.

    The Nordlinger/Charen answer is: Point it out all the time — early and often — while downplaying (or ignoring, or eliding past) the odiousness of the Left.

    Your last sentence is where we agree. That was the point of my original response.

    What’s interesting is, Mona and Jay have more in common with the New Right than they realize.

    Here’s what I mean: Both camps — M&J and the New Right — have allowed their powerful feelings for Trump to blind them to the shortcomings of the people they are making excuses for (or just ignoring entirely).

    An odd symmetry, that.

    • #16
    • February 17, 2019 at 4:12 pm
    • 1 like
  17. Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Both camps — M&J and the New Right — have allowed their powerful feelings for Trump to blind them to the shortcomings of the people they are making excuses for (or just ignoring entirely).

    I hate to agree with this, especially regarding Mona. Jay’s another story, and I’ll be darned to say what happened to him. Except what you write above. I still hold out hope that Mona does not respond vigorously to Jay because of their friendship. Though we don’t correspond much, I did write Mona a personal note, and she responded by, in effect, saying that I keep her strong. I just cannot forget her tenure at NR, in the White House, her columns, and when we met at an NR cruise. I think she gets so much hostility from what you and I called the New Right that it bewilders her, and maybe makes her a little quick with people who should be her natural allies. Maybe it hurts her that they’ve turned on her.

    • #17
    • February 17, 2019 at 5:10 pm
    • 2 likes
  18. Member

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Both camps — M&J and the New Right — have allowed their powerful feelings for Trump to blind them to the shortcomings of the people they are making excuses for (or just ignoring entirely).

    I hate to agree with this, especially regarding Mona. Jay’s another story, and I’ll be darned to say what happened to him. Except what you write above. I still hold out hope that Mona does not respond vigorously to Jay because of their friendship. Though we don’t correspond much, I did write Mona a personal note, and she responded by, in effect, saying that I keep her strong. I just cannot forget her tenure at NR, in the White House, her columns, and when we met at an NR cruise. I think she gets so much hostility from what you and I called the New Right that it bewilders her, and maybe makes her a little quick with people who should be her natural allies. Maybe it hurts her that they’ve turned on her.

    What I fail to understand is how the odiousness of the New Right could in any way, shape or form mitigate the toxicity of the New Left.

    Or to put it another way, it is absurd to me how the existence of the former could blind one to the destructiveness of the latter.

    Are you a principled Conservative? New Right got ya down? Welcome to my world, brother! But here’s a possible form of therapy: Become a Podhoretz Conservative! Take your intellectual machine gun and blow thousands of holes in the belly of both sides.

    But to let the odiousness of the New Right turn you into an apologist for the New Left? I honestly cannot understand it.

    • #18
    • February 17, 2019 at 5:25 pm
    • 2 likes
  19. Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Both camps — M&J and the New Right — have allowed their powerful feelings for Trump to blind them to the shortcomings of the people they are making excuses for (or just ignoring entirely).

    I hate to agree with this, especially regarding Mona. Jay’s another story, and I’ll be darned to say what happened to him. Except what you write above. I still hold out hope that Mona does not respond vigorously to Jay because of their friendship. Though we don’t correspond much, I did write Mona a personal note, and she responded by, in effect, saying that I keep her strong. I just cannot forget her tenure at NR, in the White House, her columns, and when we met at an NR cruise. I think she gets so much hostility from what you and I called the New Right that it bewilders her, and maybe makes her a little quick with people who should be her natural allies. Maybe it hurts her that they’ve turned on her.

    What I fail to understand is how the odiousness of the New Right could in any way, shape or form mitigate the toxicity of the New Left.

    Or to put it another way, it is absurd to me how the existence of the former could blind one to the destructiveness of the latter.

    Are you a principled Conservative? New Right got ya down? Welcome to my world, brother! But here’s a possible form of therapy: Become a Podhoretz Conservative! Take your intellectual machine gun and blow thousands of holes in the belly of both sides.

    But to allow the odiousness of the New Right turn you into an apologist for the New Left? I honestly cannot understand it.

    I’m with you. When I think of some of the people on Ricochet, I want to vomit. Now, join me in giving a little slack to Mona? She is one of us.

    • #19
    • February 17, 2019 at 5:28 pm
    • 2 likes
  20. Member

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Both camps — M&J and the New Right — have allowed their powerful feelings for Trump to blind them to the shortcomings of the people they are making excuses for (or just ignoring entirely).

    I hate to agree with this, especially regarding Mona. Jay’s another story, and I’ll be darned to say what happened to him. Except what you write above. I still hold out hope that Mona does not respond vigorously to Jay because of their friendship. Though we don’t correspond much, I did write Mona a personal note, and she responded by, in effect, saying that I keep her strong. I just cannot forget her tenure at NR, in the White House, her columns, and when we met at an NR cruise. I think she gets so much hostility from what you and I called the New Right that it bewilders her, and maybe makes her a little quick with people who should be her natural allies. Maybe it hurts her that they’ve turned on her.

    What I fail to understand is how the odiousness of the New Right could in any way, shape or form mitigate the toxicity of the New Left.

    Or to put it another way, it is absurd to me how the existence of the former could blind one to the destructiveness of the latter.

    Are you a principled Conservative? New Right got ya down? Welcome to my world, brother! But here’s a possible form of therapy: Become a Podhoretz Conservative! Take your intellectual machine gun and blow thousands of holes in the belly of both sides.

    But to allow the odiousness of the New Right turn you into an apologist for the New Left? I honestly cannot understand it.

    I’m with you. When I think of some of the people on Ricochet, I want to vomit. Now, join me in giving a little slack to Mona? She is one of us.

    Mona is enormously bright but she is a fully grown adult woman with agency. She can disagree with Jay any time she wants in a manner that is civil, respectful, and in no way jeopardizes their friendship. She can simply say, “You’re entitled to your opinion, Jay, and you make it eloquently, but here’s why I disagree with you …” and go from there.

    But she’s rarely heard doing that.

    Which tells me that she and Jay have reached similar conclusions on these matters.

    • #20
    • February 17, 2019 at 5:35 pm
    • 1 like