To mark this historical day, we’ve assembled a panel that we think reflects all sides of the new Trump administration — a mashup of the Ricochet Podcast and Need To Know with Charen and Nordlinger with a dash of Victor Davis Hanson thrown in for flavoring. It’s a bracing conversation that really gets into the weeds on the election and what may lie ahead.

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There are 51 comments.

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  1. Icarus213 Thatcher

    Victor really comes across as butt-hurt at what certain people said to him during election season, and he seems to have elevated this to a characterization of the only reason conservatives would oppose Trump- because of their own elitist motivations. I also find his moral equivalence disturbing: basically saying “what about Obama” when someone has objections to things Trump has said. Can he cite examples of other GOP nominees who have said equally disturbing things, or only Democrats? This is precisely the point: it is one thing to be disturbed at the nominee of the opposing side, but can you just as easily dismiss disturbing things on your own side? There were many of us who cannot do this as easily as Victor, and he should at least acknowledge that.

    It isn’t just that Victor is being cynical. It is that he is saying that all politics is, and has always been, cynical, and it’s pretty much just time we all admit it. I wonder if he will agree with this kind of reasoning when people he disagrees with are in charge and similarly refuse to get down in the weeds of political “purity.”

    • #1
    • January 20, 2017, at 4:53 PM PDT
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  2. Skarv Coolidge

    Very good podcast. VDH is losing big time to Mona.

    • #2
    • January 20, 2017, at 5:30 PM PDT
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  3. Ion Inactive
    Ion

    Need to complain strikes again. That duo fell in love with their own sanctimony some time ago. Thank goodness Peter was there. He’s quite the contrast to those two in manner and substance.

    • #3
    • January 20, 2017, at 6:52 PM PDT
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  4. Discus spinner Member

    Amen, Ion. I quit listening to Need to Know several months ago because of their sanctimonious commentary. I used to look forward to their podcast each week until they went completely “elitist”. Thank God for Victor also, he and Peter seemed to be the only ones making sense. I am considering cancelling my Thatcher membership if this is the kind of drivel provided by Ricochet.

    • #4
    • January 20, 2017, at 10:11 PM PDT
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  5. patpongmike Inactive

    I tuned in to hear VDH, a bulwark of common-sense and realism, and one on whom I have come to depend during this election year. Hanson is one of the few who “got” Trump, and were able to explain his candidacy to me.

    I would not have tuned in to listen to Nordlinger or Charen. I used to listen to them, but stopped about six months ago as they went off the rails with anti-Trump invective. And neither of them have changed, or learned, but rather they have both chosen to lock their minds into little boxes.

    My thanks to this podcast for confirming my decision to give “Need-to-Know” the boot last year.

    • #5
    • January 21, 2017, at 6:19 AM PDT
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  6. Freesmith Inactive

    Note:

    Personal attacks.

    [redacted]

    It’s amusing to listen to NeverTrumpers moan and groan about how attacked they are. They complain that the comment threads of their magazine articles and their twitter feeds are filled with criticisms from the hot polloi, some of it expressed in very uncivil ways. Isn’t that awful?

    [redacted]

    • #6
    • January 21, 2017, at 10:44 AM PDT
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  7. Randal H Member

    I don’t care if you are liberal or conservative, if you spend your entire existence in one of the Super Zips, you have no authority to comment on the conditions in the country at large unless – like Charles Murray or Salena Zito – you make it your topic of research, or – like VDH – you live there. Just give it up. Of course you will see his speech as “dark” if you don’t experience that world.

    If you are suffering, as many of my neighbors are, you don’t care whether a president’s manner of speaking is crude or debonair, you care about results. In fact, you’re probably happy that he even acknowledges your problems, which is likely the case with Trump’s speeches. He will need to deliver on at least some of his promises, but these people are aware that acknowledgement and dedication to trying are extremely important.

    • #7
    • January 21, 2017, at 11:19 AM PDT
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  8. Annefy Member

    Regarding Mona’s biggest problem with Trump: can someone point to me when Trump indicated he believes trade and wealth is a zero sum game the way Mona described it?

    • #8
    • January 21, 2017, at 1:54 PM PDT
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  9. Freesmith Inactive

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Regarding Mona’s biggest problem with Trump: can someone point to me when Trump indicated he believes trade and wealth is a zero sum game the way Mona described it?

    You’ll notice that Mona became silent when VDH began to describe the wonders that free trade had brought to Selma, Fresno and the San Joaquin Valley raisin farmers among whom Victor has lived for 30 years, people and landscapes Mona has flown over several times on her way to and from the coast.

    She became just as silent as Jay.

    • #9
    • January 21, 2017, at 4:45 PM PDT
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  10. patpongmike Inactive

    @freesmith

    “Did Jay run away and let the girl do his arguing for him? ”

    —-after Jay’s initial comment on Trump’s speech having a “beerhall” quality, which I think is a reference to nazi, well,… Jay just shut up.

    • #10
    • January 21, 2017, at 5:10 PM PDT
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  11. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    patpongmike (View Comment):
    I tuned in to hear VDH, a bulwark of common-sense and realism, and one on whom I have come to depend during this election year. Hanson is one of the few who “got” Trump, and were able to explain his candidacy to me.

    Totally agree. I wouldn’t have listened to the podcast had VDH not been a guest.

    • #11
    • January 21, 2017, at 5:21 PM PDT
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  12. billy Inactive

    patpongmike (View Comment):
    @freesmith

    “Did Jay run away and let the girl do his arguing for him? ”

    —-after Jay’s initial comment on Trump’s speech having a “beerhall” quality, which I think is a reference to nazi, well,… Jay just shut up.

    In fairness to Jay, that is the way they usually do NTK. Mona conducts the interview, and then they discuss it with each other.

    • #12
    • January 21, 2017, at 5:41 PM PDT
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  13. Blue Yeti Admin

    Folks, thanks for all the comments and of course, thanks for listening. We put this show together because on Inauguration Day, we wanted to have a full on conversation with all sides of the Trump debate and demonstrate how it could be done in a smart and civilized manner. Because, you know, that’s the brand around here.

    And yes, as you heard, emotions ran a bit hot on the show. That’s to be expected. It’s a highly charged topic. And I see that the comments here reflect that.

    Many of you disagree with some of the opinions expressed on this show. That’s not only fine, it’s the entire point of this site. But to personally attack anyone (and that includes name calling and mis-quoting) is not acceptable. Nor is castigating anyone over who they may or may not have supported or even voted for.

    I hear all the time from members about how they wish there was more contrib participation in the comments. Some of what I’ve read here is not conducive or exemplary of smart and civil conversation. Let’s not forget that basically, we’re all on the same side here. Can we please strive more to act like it?

    • #13
    • January 21, 2017, at 5:56 PM PDT
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  14. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):
    Let’s not forget that basically, we’re all on the same side here. Can we please strive more to act like it?

    If you go back and listen again to the podcast, you might think we’re not all on the same side. Clearly, VDH was almost begging Mona and Jay to understand his point of view, and dear Peter was doing his best to defend his choice and assuage the vitriol pouring from Jay and Mona who made it uglier than necessary.

    • #14
    • January 21, 2017, at 6:26 PM PDT
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  15. Blue Yeti Admin

    goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):
    Let’s not forget that basically, we’re all on the same side here. Can we please strive more to act like it?

    If you go back and listen again to the podcast, you might think we’re not all on the same side. Clearly, VDH was almost begging Mona and Jay to understand his point of view, and dear Peter was doing his best to defend his choice and assuage the vitriol pouring from Jay and Mona who made it uglier than necessary.

    One, you’re making my point. Two, I know all of them well. Trust me when I tell you that here was no vitriol and it wasn’t ugly — just some honest disagreement on an important and emotional topic. Don’t project the feelings you get when listening to it onto them.

    • #15
    • January 21, 2017, at 6:34 PM PDT
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  16. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):
    Don’t project the feelings you get when listening to it onto them.

    Did we both hear the same podcast?

    • #16
    • January 21, 2017, at 6:45 PM PDT
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  17. Franco Member

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    goldwaterwoman (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):
    Let’s not forget that basically, we’re all on the same side here. Can we please strive more to act like it?

    If you go back and listen again to the podcast, you might think we’re not all on the same side. Clearly, VDH was almost begging Mona and Jay to understand his point of view, and dear Peter was doing his best to defend his choice and assuage the vitriol pouring from Jay and Mona who made it uglier than necessary.

    One, you’re making my point. Two, I know all of them well. Trust me when I tell you that here was no vitriol and it wasn’t ugly — just some honest disagreement on an important and emotional topic. Don’t project the feelings you get when listening to it onto them.

    How is she making your point? Yeti, you can’t just say that and omit any explanation, I’m saying this as I giggle. I’m going to try that tactic sometime….

    One, you’re making my point. Two….

    • #17
    • January 21, 2017, at 7:00 PM PDT
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  18. Annefy Member

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):
    Folks, thanks for all the comments and of course, thanks for listening. We put this show together because on Inauguration Day, we wanted to have a full on conversation with all sides of the Trump debate and demonstrate how it could be done in a smart and civilized manner. Because, you know, that’s the brand around here.

    And yes, as you heard, emotions ran a bit hot on the show. That’s to be expected. It’s a highly charged topic. And I see that the comments here reflect that.

    Many of you disagree with some of the opinions expressed on this show. That’s not only fine, it’s the entire point of this site. But to personally attack anyone (and that includes name calling and mis-quoting) is not acceptable. Nor is castigating anyone over who they may or may not have supported or even voted for.

    I hear all the time from members about how they wish there was more contrib participation in the comments. Some of what I’ve read here is not conducive or exemplary of smart and civil conversation. Let’s not forget that basically, we’re all on the same side here. Can we please strive more to act like it?

    BY; goes both ways my friend. I gave up on Mona and Jay months ago when they began to project their opinions of Trump onto ME, a mere voter.

    • #18
    • January 21, 2017, at 8:19 PM PDT
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  19. George Townsend Member

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Regarding Mona’s biggest problem with Trump: can someone point to me when Trump indicated he believes trade and wealth is a zero sum game the way Mona described it?

    • #19
    • January 22, 2017, at 3:42 AM PDT
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  20. George Townsend Member

    To answer your question: Mona gets this idea from, among other places, the inaugural. Trump said specifically that we are failing because other countries are taking our jobs and our wealth. Conservatism believes the opposite: That whenever any country buy stuff from us, we all prosper!!

    But, I want to say that, in general, this discussion between Need To Know and the guys on the general Ricochet podcast was wonderful. We need more of this, instead of the yelling and screaming that is too prevalent in today’s media.

    LONG LIVE RICOCHET!!!

    • #20
    • January 22, 2017, at 3:52 AM PDT
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  21. Annefy Member

    Thanks for responding @georgetownsend

    If that is the line of Trump’s address Mina was responding to I think her passion is misplaced.

    I thought maybe there was an earlier speech where Trump said something she was responding to

    VDH addressed the issue better than I ever could

    • #21
    • January 22, 2017, at 9:39 AM PDT
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  22. Keith Keystone Inactive

    I listened to the podcast and was surprised by the weakness of Victor’s case. He basically says, in defense of Trump, “oh yeah, well Obama did it too..” That is grade school stuff. I thought he’d put a better case together than that.

    Peter’s case is fairly reasonable, he basically says, “Trump is bad, but at least he is appointing good people.”

    But I agree mostly with Jay. Trump’s speech was terrible. “American carnage”, “empty factories scattered like tombstones”, the schools leave our kids “deprived of all knowledge.” He is speaking as if we live in 1970s Cambodia. Shameful and ridiculous.

    Keep speaking the truth Mona and Jay!

    • #22
    • January 22, 2017, at 1:27 PM PDT
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  23. The Question Inactive

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Regarding Mona’s biggest problem with Trump: can someone point to me when Trump indicated he believes trade and wealth is a zero sum game the way Mona described it?

    Trump’s view of trade deficits as being something bad supports that view. According to free traders like Milton Freidman, whose views I support, trade benefit both sides even if one side is selling more than another. In the case of China, it seems to me that they buy less from us because they have less money to buy things with. China not buying from us doesn’t benefit them.

    I posted on this once. At a rally, Trump said he used to be greedy and take for himself, but now he’s going to take for the rest of us. I definitely get the impression that Trump thinks you get rich by taking wealth from someone else.

    I hope that I and Mona are mischaracterizing Trump.

    • #23
    • January 23, 2017, at 2:18 AM PDT
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  24. Metalheaddoc Member

    The impression I get is that Jay and Mona are basically upper crust snobs. Trump is too crass and boorish for them. He likes money, shiny things and boobs. Jay and Mona live in the coastal bubble. VDH lives in the real world and sees the consequences of Ivy League techocratic policies.

    I didn’t get the impression that VDH was defending Trump’s style as much as refuting the “we’ve never seen anything like Trump in politics” meme. Obama was as partisan and nasty, but just sounded cooler. Plus, he was black and beyond criticism.

    • #24
    • January 23, 2017, at 2:33 PM PDT
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  25. Larry Koler Inactive

    I don’t think Jay could talk to VDH. I wonder if the person that VDH was talking to (remember his story about a guy who wanted to give the election to Hillary just to purge Trump?) was known to Jay or could have been someone close to Jay. Either way, it’s clearly Jay’s mindset that VDH was addressing. VDH was saying adios to him and his way of thinking.

    It’s clear that we are now political enemies — in a very similar way that we are with the left. This breach is irreconcilable. It could not be clearer. What Jay said about Trump’s speech is truly horrendous. I’m convinced that he and Mona and George Will have much more in common with Obama and Hillary than with me. It’s obvious that the Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh branch of the right is completely at odds with these NeverTrumpers. I’m glad for the clarity — I know now who I should trust to get things done as I want them to be done.

    I listened to Rush the day after but his show was recorded during Trump’s inauguration speech and he saw things exactly as I did. I was thrilled at what Trump said. Truly I was so grateful that these things are actually said by someone in the power structure.

    • #25
    • January 23, 2017, at 9:29 PM PDT
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  26. Larry Koler Inactive

    Jay and Mona and Rob and Jonah and John Podhoretz and most of the NR and Weekly Standard crowd now sound much like Libertarians but without a party (yet) and they will be marginalized into their safe little sinecures (bubbles) and deal with nice people only (like Obama and Hillary and Al Gore and John Kerry). These people will not fight in the way that is effective and I have been hoping and praying for effective people on our side for years. It has been my single biggest disappointment for decades now. But, now I know who has been dragging their feet and now I know why we can’t have nice things.

    It is a surprise to me that Trump is the agent for this new alignment now that I know what I know about him but he fits it better than I could have dreamt — even better than Cruz, I am now convinced.

    • #26
    • January 23, 2017, at 9:34 PM PDT
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  27. Theodoric of Freiberg Member

    I have been a big fan of Jay Nordlinger for years and I still am. It upsets me greatly that he apparently left the podcast early on. I was hoping to hear a cogent defense of his positions in response to VDH and Peter Robinson. I can’t even tell if he stayed to listen to their viewpoints. A back-and-forth between the five participants would have been wonderful. Instead, it seems that Ms. Charen was left all alone. Isn’t robust, conservative discussion the entire point of Ricochet?

    Maybe Mr. Nordlinger is just too emotionally raw at this point. I can at least partially understand how he feels. He worked for Ted Cruz’s campaign and Trump was particularly nasty to the senator. I supported Cruz as well and will never forgive Trump for some of the things he said about him and other Republicans. I also know that he has received many negative emails and tweets from Trump supporters. That can’t be fun. However, Donald Trump is the president and the question should now be how to move conservatism forward from this point on given that fact. Getting emotional and abandoning the argument is not the way forward.

    • #27
    • January 24, 2017, at 12:57 PM PDT
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  28. Larry Koler Inactive

    Theodoric of Freiberg (View Comment):
    I have been a big fan of Jay Nordlinger for years and I still am. It upsets me greatly that he apparently left the podcast early on. I was hoping to hear a cogent defense of his positions in response to VDH and Peter Robinson. I can’t even tell if he stayed to listen to their viewpoints. A back-and-forth between the five participants would have been wonderful. Instead, it seems that Ms. Charen was left all alone. Isn’t robust, conservative discussion the entire point of Ricochet?

    Maybe Mr. Nordlinger is just too emotionally raw at this point. I can at least partially understand how he feels. He worked for Ted Cruz’s campaign and Trump was particularly nasty to the senator. I supported Cruz as well and will never forgive Trump for some of the things he said about him and other Republicans. I also know that he has received many negative emails and tweets from Trump supporters. That can’t be fun. However, Donald Trump is the president and the question should now be how to move conservatism forward from this point on given that fact. Getting emotional and abandoning the argument is not the way forward.

    He came back on after VDH left.

    • #28
    • January 24, 2017, at 1:02 PM PDT
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  29. Annefy Member

    Frankly I am getting a little tired of the whining about how some of these pundits were treated. I don’t mind them sharing it, but I do mind them acting as though their experience has been extraordinary. Let’s just condemn the behavior and not martyr ourselves.

    • #29
    • January 24, 2017, at 1:16 PM PDT
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  30. Goldwaterwoman Thatcher

    Larry Koler (View Comment):
    He came back on after VDH left.

    In a prior podcast VDH sadly commented that he had lost friends at NR over his support for Trump. Presumably, Jay N is one of them.

    • #30
    • January 24, 2017, at 2:16 PM PDT
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