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Talk then turns to Trump’s deal with the Democrats, Berkeley’s encounter with Ben Shapiro, the conservative media complex, and demagogues of the right and left.

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There are 30 comments.

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  1. OwnedByDogs Coolidge

    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    • #1
    • September 16, 2017, at 2:12 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  2. George Townsend Inactive

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    Ditto, Julia! Let’s hope.

    • #2
    • September 16, 2017, at 2:54 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  3. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    You rang?

    Sorry, we aren’t going away or shutting up. It’s just that most us realize it is impossible to persuade the other side here.

    I’ll be happy to whip up another argument equating your view of Trump to being With Her! I doubt any argument is going to bridge the gap either way though.

    Ironically, I used to be a loyal NtK listener, but times change.

    • #3
    • September 16, 2017, at 8:10 PM PDT
    • 6 likes
  4. Richard Easton Member

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    You rang?

    Sorry, we aren’t going away or shutting up. It’s just that most us realize it is impossible to persuade the other side here.

    I’ll be happy to whip up another argument equating your view of Trump to being With Her! I doubt any argument is going to bridge the gap either way though.

    Ironically, I used to be a loyal NtK listener, but times change.

    Yup, I don’t need to know their views any longer.

    • #4
    • September 16, 2017, at 8:31 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  5. George Townsend Inactive

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    You rang?

    Sorry, we aren’t going away or shutting up. It’s just that most us realize it is impossible to persuade the other side here.

    I’ll be happy to whip up another argument equating your view of Trump to being With Her! I doubt any argument is going to bridge the gap either way though.

    Ironically, I used to be a loyal NtK listener, but times change.

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    You rang?

    Sorry, we aren’t going away or shutting up. It’s just that most us realize it is impossible to persuade the other side here.

    I’ll be happy to whip up another argument equating your view of Trump to being With Her! I doubt any argument is going to bridge the gap either way though.

    Ironically, I used to be a loyal NtK listener, but times change.

    Yup, I don’t need to know their views any longer.

    I’m sorry, but Julia is right. And the fact that the-defend-Trump-no-matter-what people are unwilling to listen to people bringing up inconvenient facts that this man should not be President won’t change that. WE did not want Hillary. That would have been disastrous. But this man is incompetent. Those are the facts!

    • #5
    • September 17, 2017, at 2:15 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  6. Richard Easton Member

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    You rang?

    Sorry, we aren’t going away or shutting up. It’s just that most us realize it is impossible to persuade the other side here.

    I’ll be happy to whip up another argument equating your view of Trump to being With Her! I doubt any argument is going to bridge the gap either way though.

    Ironically, I used to be a loyal NtK listener, but times change.

    Yup, I don’t need to know their views any longer.

    I’m sorry, but Julia is right. And the fact that the-defend-Trump-no-matter-what people are unwilling to listen to people bringing up inconvenient facts that this man should not be President won’t change that. WE did not want Hillary. That would have been disastrous. But this man is incompetent. Those are the facts!

    No, were just not interested interested in hearing lectures from people who think they’re our bettors. I can’t completely avoid getting these talks from my leftist relatives. I don’t feel the need to seek them out. I do listen to a variety of people. A few months ago, I was listening to John Batchelor interviewing a leftist reporter who’d written a book about the 2016 election. I bailed when he made a ridiculous comment that Obama’s problem was that he didn’t have a big ego. Trying to hector people who you obviously think are your inferiors doesn’t work. But that appears to be the strategy of most of the NT podcasts.

    • #6
    • September 17, 2017, at 2:49 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  7. George Townsend Inactive

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    No, were just not interested interested in hearing lectures from people who think they’re our bettors. I can’t completely avoid getting these talks from my leftist relatives. I don’t feel the need to seek them out. I do listen to a variety of people. A few months ago, I was listening to John Batchelor interviewing a leftist reporter who’d written a book about the 2016 election. I bailed when he made a ridiculous comment that Obama’s problem was that he didn’t have a big ego. Trying to hector people who you obviously think are your inferiors doesn’t work. But that appears to be the strategy of most of the NT podcasts.

    This is completely laughable. I feel sorry for people like you. Sure, there are plenty of leftists who think they are better than we are. But real conservatives know better. We make real arguments to bolster our points. People who pretend to be conservative but are in truth reactionaries don’t want to listen to anybody who will dare to challenge their emotions. Tis a pity!

    • #7
    • September 17, 2017, at 3:20 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  8. filmklassik Member

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (V

    No, were just not interested interested in hearing lectures from people who think they’re our bettors. I can’t completely avoid getting these talks from my leftist relatives. I don’t feel the need to seek them out. I do listen to a variety of people. A few months ago, I was listening to John Batchelor interviewing a leftist reporter who’d written a book about the 2016 election. I bailed when he made a ridiculous comment that Obama’s problem was that he didn’t have a big ego. Trying to hector people who you obviously think are your inferiors doesn’t work. But that appears to be the strategy of most of the NT podcasts.

    Sorry but “S’matta, you think you’re better’n me??!!” is not an argument reasonable people make. In fact it comes perilously close to the attention-deprived toddler banging his juice cup and throwing his food off the high chair.

    It has this in common with Leftism: It is utterly devoid of logic and is completely emotion based.

    • #8
    • September 17, 2017, at 6:26 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  9. OwnedByDogs Coolidge

    Every day I am happier that I voted for neither! And as a matter of fact, I do think Jay and Mona are better and wiser than Trump and his voters. Every day brings fresh evidence to affirm it.

    • #9
    • September 17, 2017, at 7:18 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  10. filmklassik Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    Every day I am happier that I voted for neither! And as a matter of fact, I do think Jay and Mona are better and wiser than Trump and his voters. Every day brings fresh evidence to affirm it.

    Me too!

    • #10
    • September 17, 2017, at 8:59 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  11. Richard Easton Member

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    No, were just not interested interested in hearing lectures from people who think they’re our bettors. I can’t completely avoid getting these talks from my leftist relatives. I don’t feel the need to seek them out. I do listen to a variety of people. A few months ago, I was listening to John Batchelor interviewing a leftist reporter who’d written a book about the 2016 election. I bailed when he made a ridiculous comment that Obama’s problem was that he didn’t have a big ego. Trying to hector people who you obviously think are your inferiors doesn’t work. But that appears to be the strategy of most of the NT podcasts.

    This is completely laughable. I feel sorry for people like you. Sure, there are plenty of leftists who think they are better than we are. But real conservatives know better. We make real arguments to bolster our points. People who pretend to be conservative but are in truth reactionaries don’t want to listen to anybody who will dare to challenge their emotions. Tis a pity!

    And NTs wonder why we dislike them. I’ve written a book, have recently been on C-SPAN, have debated in print the first head of the GPS Joint Program Office, have had a talk I gave last year introduced by the head of the Air Force Space Command, etc. So spare me your patronizing comments.

    Richard Epstein starting calling for Trump to resign almost from Inauguration Day. By the fourth or fifth time he did that, I stopped listening to him. I think that’s a reasonable response to a person who is being unreasonable.

    • #11
    • September 17, 2017, at 9:13 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  12. George Townsend Inactive

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    And NTs wonder why we dislike them. I’ve written a book, have recently been on C-SPAN, have debated in print the first head of the GPS Joint Program Office, have had a talk I gave last year introduced by the head of the Air Force Space Command, etc. So spare me your patronizing comments.

    Richard Epstein starting calling for Trump to resign almost from Inauguration Day. By the fourth or fifth time he did that, I stopped listening to him. I think that’s a reasonable response to a person who is being unreasonable.

    Please tell me how I patronized you? No one questions your brightness or articulateness. I do question your judgement. Why am I not allowed to do that? It seems to the patronizing comments are on your side. Dennis Prager, for example, started his condescending ways right off the bat, by saying that NeverTrumpers (a ridiculing and inaccurate term, by the way) had a Moral Bank Account, and so it’s ok to be wrong this time. What? I committed a moral crime by not voting for Trump? He continued by saying that we wanted to have dinner parties, and we couldn’t if we voted for Trump. He continues to denigrate my side to this day. We love our country, and feel that Trump is wrong for it. For that, you, he, and others hate us. Keep hating me. I sleep fine!

    • #12
    • September 17, 2017, at 9:34 AM PDT
    • Like
  13. She Reagan
    SheJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    There are lots of podcasts and they express many different positions and views. We hope you enjoy those you listen to, whether you agree with them, or if you listen to them to be challenged by a differing opinion. As you can see from the comments here, there are different strokes for different folks.

    If you find some of the podcasts irksome, annoying, or disagreeable, you can vote with your feet and simply move on to the next one. No sense purposely listening to something just to make yourself angry.

    In either case, if you want to express an opposing opinion here, please do it civilly and without imputation of others’ motives or intelligence. If you can’t do that, then please save your breath to cool your porridge. Thanks.

    • #13
    • September 17, 2017, at 9:49 AM PDT
    • Like
  14. She Reagan
    SheJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Duplicate Comment

    • #14
    • September 17, 2017, at 9:54 AM PDT
    • Like
  15. She Reagan
    SheJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    At least the Trump apologists who were so quick to attack Jay and Mona may be blessedly quiet. At least I hope so. I really can’t stand any more “you wanted Hillary!” lame arguments.

    You rang?

    Sorry, we aren’t going away or shutting up. It’s just that most us realize it is impossible to persuade the other side here.

    I’ll be happy to whip up another argument equating your view of Trump to being With Her! I doubt any argument is going to bridge the gap either way though.

    Ironically, I used to be a loyal NtK listener, but times change.

    Yup, I don’t need to know their views any longer.

    I’m sorry, but Julia is right. And the fact that the-defend-Trump-no-matter-what people are unwilling to listen to people bringing up inconvenient facts that this man should not be President won’t change that. WE did not want Hillary. That would have been disastrous. But this man is incompetent. Those are the facts!

    No, were just not interested interested in hearing lectures from people who think they’re our bettors. I can’t completely avoid getting these talks from my leftist relatives. I don’t feel the need to seek them out. I do listen to a variety of people. A few months ago, I was listening to John Batchelor interviewing a leftist reporter who’d written a book about the 2016 election. I bailed when he made a ridiculous comment that Obama’s problem was that he didn’t have a big ego. Trying to hector people who you obviously think are your inferiors doesn’t work. But that appears to be the strategy of most of the NT podcasts.

    It’s possible that the strategy of what you call the “NT podcasts” is just to provide a forum for folks with a particular opinion (I would question whether “NT” is the correct nomenclature, but that’s not the point here), to exchange their ideas.

    It’s probably a stretch to believe that the participants are sitting around strategizing about how to produce a podcast for the singular purpose of insulting those who disagree with them.

    • #15
    • September 17, 2017, at 9:55 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  16. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    And NTs wonder why we dislike them. I’ve written a book, have recently been on C-SPAN, have debated in print the first head of the GPS Joint Program Office, have had a talk I gave last year introduced by the head of the Air Force Space Command, etc. So spare me your patronizing comments…

    Please tell me how I patronized you?

    Alright, I’ll give this a whack, George, since it might give you a sense of why you tend to get the reactions you do. You wrote:

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    This is completely laughable. I feel sorry for people like you. Sure, there are plenty of leftists who think they are better than we are. But real conservatives know better. We make real arguments to bolster our points. People who pretend to be conservative but are in truth reactionaries don’t want to listen to anybody who will dare to challenge their emotions. Tis a pity!

    @georgetownsend, you mention a division between “real conservatives” and those who “pretend to be conservative but are in truth reactionaries”, and you seem to fairly strongly imply that those who seem unwilling to listen to challengers – and you evidently consider yourself one of the challengers – falls into the latter category. This could be interpreted as, “Anyone who doesn’t agree with me, George Townsend, is a reactionary poseur and no real conservative.” To conservative readers who find themselves in disagreement with you, yes, that can seem pretty darn patronizing. Even more so when you add in, “I feel sorry for people like you.” (Are these “people like you” reactionary poseurs, not real conservatives, perhaps? That possibility is left open.)

    It’s quite possible that’s not how you meant it, George. Especially since another interpretation of the “we” in “We make real arguments to bolster our points” is that the “we” does in fact include conservatives like @richardeaston and those who agree with him. But the “we” is ambiguous. It could include fellow Ricochetti, or it could exclude them. The ambiguity leaves open the possibility that you’re attacking fellow Ricochetti’s identity as conservatives, and it’s to be expected that even civil people bristle upon sensing an attack on their right to identify as conservative.

    So, there you have it. That is how your remark might have come across as patronizing. Maybe seeing how gives you food for thought. A lot of folks, when they write online, do find it necessary to make a conscientious effort to avoid inadvertently coming across as patronizing. As many point out, tone can be pretty hard to judge in an internet comment.

    • #16
    • September 17, 2017, at 10:17 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  17. George Townsend Inactive

    It’s quite possible that’s not how you meant it, George. Especially since another interpretation of the “we” in “We make real arguments to bolster our points” is that the “we” does in fact include conservatives like @richardeaston and those who agree with him. But the “we” is ambiguous. It could include fellow Ricochetti, or it could exclude them. The ambiguity leaves open the possibility that you’re attacking fellow Ricochetti’s identity as conservatives, and it’s to be expected that even civil people bristle upon sensing an attack on their right to identify as conservative.

    So, there you have it. That is how your remark might have come across as patronizing. Maybe seeing how gives you food for thought. A lot of folks, when they write online, do find it necessary to make a conscientious effort to avoid inadvertently coming across as patronizing. As many point out, tone can be pretty hard to judge in an internet comment.

    You sound like you mean well. Please allow me to say the following?: I don’t think Donald Trump is a conservative. I infer that from the evidence, built up through a lifetime of giving to liberals, and, even today, implying he would sign anything into law, regardless of its philosophical basis.

    I consider it neither patronizing nor condescending to say that those who follow him so assiduously are not themselves conservative. They may think they are are. Why does that make it necessary that I think they are? By saying that I think they are not, I am not impruning their characters but questioning their judgements. That guy David, who writes for the times (I am having what people call a Senior Moment right now. :-) ), says he is a conservative. He probably is in private. But he voted for Obama, and writes, at turns, brilliant and silly things. i do not consider those things conservative. Am I patronizing him? Surely not.

    What I wrote to Richard about Dennis Prager proves to me that it is people like that who are the ones who exercise the type of condescension Richard accuses me of.

    Lastly, I do consider people like Richard consumed with emotion, and he proves it by turning off people who disagree with him. That is insulting. I call him on it, and well-meaning people like you call me insulting. That is head-scratching. He implied I was a leftist. Again, insulting. He does not know me. I have not been on the left in 40 years!

    • #17
    • September 17, 2017, at 11:15 AM PDT
    • Like
  18. George Townsend Inactive

    She (View Comment):
    There are lots of podcasts and they express many different positions and views. We hope you enjoy those you listen to, whether you agree with them, or if you listen to them to be challenged by a differing opinion. As you can see from the comments here, there are different strokes for different folks.

    If you find some of the podcasts irksome, annoying, or disagreeable, you can vote with your feet and simply move on to the next one. No sense purposely listening to something just to make yourself angry.

    In either case, if you want to express an opposing opinion here, please do it civilly and without imputation of others’ motives or intelligence. If you can’t do that, then please save your breath to cool your porridge. Thanks.

    By the way, She, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And i do not believe I have done any of the things you find – rightly – egregious. I do not believe that questioning someone’s judgement is the same thing as questioning his intelligence or his motives. Perhaps it is a close call. I do not believe so. Even Bill Buckley got it wrong once in a while, in my judgement. And he was brilliant. I would never even think otherwise.

    • #18
    • September 17, 2017, at 11:27 AM PDT
    • Like
  19. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    I consider it neither patronizing nor condescending to say that those who follow [Trump] so assiduously are not themselves conservative. They may think they are are. Why does that make it necessary that I think they are? By saying that I think they are not, I am not impruning their characters but questioning their judgements. That guy David, who writes for the times (I am having what people call a Senior Moment right now. ? ), says he is a conservative. He probably is in private. But he voted for Obama, and writes, at turns, brilliant and silly things. i do not consider those things conservative. Am I patronizing him? Surely not.

    What you say here looks like a double-standard, though. You’re willing to say this David (probably David Brooks?) “probably is” a conservative “in private” – that is, some sort of conservative, while also saying those who follow Trump so assiduously are not conservative – apparently not even “in private”.

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    Lastly, I do consider people like Richard consumed with emotion, and he proves it by turning off people who disagree with him. That is insulting. I call him on it, and well-meaning people like you call me insulting. That is head-scratching. He implied I was a leftist. Again, insulting.

    So, you find it insulting when someone turns off people who disagree with him, and you find it insulting to have it implied that you are a leftist. Whether you mean to or not, you are returning the favor. I don’t think you’re an intentionally insulting person, but I do understand why those you’re calling not-conservative feel as insulted by you as you feel by them.

    • #19
    • September 17, 2017, at 1:04 PM PDT
    • 4 likes
  20. George Townsend Inactive

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):
    So, you find it insulting when someone turns of people who disagree with him, and you find it insulting to have it implied that you are a leftist. Whether you mean to or not, you are returning the favor. I don’t think you’re an intentionally insulting person, but I do understand why those you’re calling not-conservative feel as insulted by you as you feel by them.

    David Brooks is the fellow, so thank you for that.

    Would I be presuming too much to think that you are a Trump supporter? I am too, if you mean that I am an American who wants what’s the best for his country, and will say that a President – no matter who he is – has done something good. But that is not good enough. Dennis Prager says I am a bystander, if I don’t stand behind him all the time. But you don’t call him to task when he insults people who find Trump unpalatable. You reserve that for people like me. You don’t care if I am insulted. You understand the people who insult me; but you take me to task for getting upset by it. Forgive me for not understanding your double standard.

    • #20
    • September 17, 2017, at 2:40 PM PDT
    • Like
  21. filmklassik Member

    Had lunch back in June with a friend of mine — a Conservative woman in her thirties who couldn’t bring herself to vote for Donald Trump. This woman has always been a principled conservative. A real thinker; someone who likes to reason things out. She reads National Review and the Weekly Standard pretty consistently.

    …At least she used to.

    Over lunch, she told me how she now feels estranged from both publications, because her outlook has changed since November. She now feels that when Conservatives go ripping into Trump, they are aiding and abetting the Left, and that Conservatives need to close ranks around Trump even if they didn’t support him during the primaries or vote for him in the general election.

    So she is angry now with Ben Shapiro, Jonah Goldberg, Kevin Williamson, Jay Nordlinger, Mona Charen, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, George Will — the usual suspects.

    And that was the last time I saw her. My own opinion? She has linked arms with the Philistines.

    • #21
    • September 17, 2017, at 4:55 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  22. George Townsend Inactive

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Had lunch back in June with a friend of mine — a Conservative woman in her thirties who couldn’t bring herself to vote for Donald Trump. This woman has always been a principled conservative. A real thinker; someone who likes to reason things out. She reads National Review and the Weekly Standard pretty consistently.

    …At least she used to.

    Over lunch, she told me how she now feels estranged from both publications, because her outlook has changed since November. She now feels that when Conservatives go ripping into Trump, they are aiding and abetting the Left, and that Conservatives need to close ranks around Trump even if they didn’t support him during the primaries or vote for him in the general election.

    So she is angry now with Ben Shapiro, Jonah Goldberg, Kevin Williamson, Jay Nordlinger, Mona Charen, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, George Will — the usual suspects.

    And that was the last time I saw her. My own opinion? She has linked arms with the Philistines.

    This is so sad! I really cannot understand why this happens. My only thought is that someone like Dennis Prager got to her. Not that he was ever that much of a conservative. He says the right things, and I guess believes them. But he admits he was never that into politics, and, I believe, does not really fully comprehend the philosophy behind these beliefs. And he has convinced himself that the left has become such a menace that only Donald Trump can save us.

    I agree that the thinking on the left is pernicious, and can become such a menace. But Trump is surely not the answer. And Dennis ignores the evidence that good things are happening. Examples include: The concert he conducted, despite efforts at boycott, was sold out; and the lecture Shapiro gave at the University didn’t turn out that badly at all, as the cops kept the protesters at bay.

    Perhaps this woman sips the same intoxicating beverage that Prager does!

    • #22
    • September 17, 2017, at 11:54 PM PDT
    • Like
  23. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    George Townsend (View Comment):
    Would I be presuming too much to think that you are a Trump supporter?

    Yes, you would be presuming too much.

    I am too, if you mean that I am an American who wants what’s the best for his country, and will say that a President – no matter who he is – has done something good. But that is not good enough. Dennis Prager says I am a bystander, if I don’t stand behind him all the time. But you don’t call him to task when he insults people who find Trump unpalatable.

    I have no power to call Dennis Prager to task. I just mod on Ricochet, and Prager isn’t a regular commenter here.

    You reserve that for people like me. You don’t care if I am insulted. You understand the people who insult me; but you take me to task for getting upset by it. Forgive me for not understanding your double standard.

    It’s not a double-standard, just trying to help you understand why you might have gotten the reaction you did. This seems to have backfired, for which I apologize. But I want you to have a pleasant time on Ricochet, and, as @mackthemike put it, here are some tips that can help with that:

    Mack The Mike (View Comment):

    • Recognize that if your interlocutor has misrepresented your position, the cause may be your unclear writing, not your interlocutor’s bad reading.
    • Focus on understanding others more than persuading them or (even worse) making them look bad to third parties.

    I had hoped maybe I’d get you to understand the other side a little better for your own peace of mind, but as I said, this appears to have backfired.

    • #23
    • September 18, 2017, at 12:02 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  24. George Townsend Inactive

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake (View Comment):
    I had hoped maybe I’d get you to understand the other side a little better for your own peace of mind, but as I said, this appears to have backfired.

    As I said you probably meant well. But two things:

    You have focused on me, and not of others. I appreciate your point about Prager, and I accept what you write. My only point is that you never write, “You know, George, you make a good point. Maybe Dennis does insult your side. He might not mean to, but, to you, he had that affect. And do I understand why it might make you a little bitter.” There was none of that. It was always my fault.

    And that leads me to your Mack The Mike quote: Again, it is always my fault. I am not clear enough. Why is that? It couldn’t be that the other guy is purposely misunderstanding me?

    If I made a mistake about your political loyalties, I am sorry. but it was the tenor of your criticisms that let me to it.

    It was, however, pleasant jousting with you. You never exceeded to being rude. But please think about your rushes to judgement? I may be wrong at times. God made no one perfect. But the other guy may also be wrong.

    • #24
    • September 18, 2017, at 1:28 AM PDT
    • Like
  25. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    George Townsend (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    And that was the last time I saw her. My own opinion? She has linked arms with the Philistines.

    This is so sad! I really cannot understand why this happens. My only thought is that someone like Dennis Prager got to her. Not that he was ever that much of a conservative. He says the right things, and I guess believes them. But he admits he was never that into politics, and, I believe, does not really fully comprehend the philosophy behind these beliefs. And he has convinced himself that the left has become such a menace that only Donald Trump can save us.

    I agree that the thinking on the left is pernicious, and can become such a menace. But Trump is surely not the answer. And Dennis ignores the evidence that good things are happening. Examples include: The concert he conducted, despite efforts at boycott, was sold out; and the lecture Shapiro gave at the University didn’t turn out that badly at all, as the cops kept the protesters at bay.

    Perhaps this woman sips the same intoxicating beverage that Prager does!

    Consider for a moment that you are claiming Trump supporters are Philistines and that the left really isn’t so bad. If you wanted to conform to the stereotype of a NeverTrump person, you have been wildly successful. It really sounds like an argument that the Trump’s supporters are part of the Great Unwashed Masses or something similar. It is hard to see how this could not be viewed as condescending. Further, I do not understand your view of the left – it is reminiscent of people who opposed Reagan’s anti-Soviet strategy, viewing it as based on an “inordinate fear of communism” Leftism is totalitarian – see Jonah Goldberg’s work for more detail.

    Let me give some backstory. I was virulently anti-Trump during the primary – I even left Ricochet after he won Indiana. I was about as insulting as I could possibly be within the CoC. However, all of the people who went on about Trump predicted him being steamrollered by Hillary were wrong. They continued to be wrong. We’ve got a number of solid appointments and some actually progress in the executive branch. Most of the supposed scandals seem like a nothingburger. Meanwhile, people seem to ignore the fact that our congress is unable to do anything worthwhile. The supposed heart of the GOP was unable to deliver on any promises. Is there something left of supposed congressional conservatism other than doing nothing and trying to make friends with democrats?

    That’s why I signed up for the Happy Warriors. I realized I could learn something from the people who saw the political dynamics coming, and I could profit from the discussion there. No intoxicated beverages required – though I wouldn’t mind a good whiskey…

    • #25
    • September 18, 2017, at 1:31 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  26. George Townsend Inactive

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    That’s why I signed up for the Happy Warriors. I realized I could learn something from the people who saw the political dynamics coming, and I could profit from the discussion there. No intoxicated beverages required – though I wouldn’t mind a good whiskey…

    May I say something? I have no idea what Happy Warriors are.

    My criticisms about Trump come down to two overriding things: Despite his good appointments and his rolling back stuff, through Executive Orders, he is no conservatives. We do not know the reasons he did the things he did. Perhaps he relied very heavily on Mike Pence.

    The second thing about him is that he is, as the excellent piece in September’s Commentary put it, a vulgar man. Someone like that should have never gotten near the Presidency. He makes us look like a Banana Republic. I love my country too much to not notice that he making her look bad to the world, and turning conservatism into an unrecognizable form of Populism, which the Founders would be devastated by, in my judgement.

    I have no brief for the left. I got over my fascination for it when I left my teens. This is why Trump is such a turn-off. The main point of conservatism is to make people better, through their own efforts. To let them recognize that we all have God-given abilities, which can best be realized by government interfering as little as possible.

    • #26
    • September 18, 2017, at 1:50 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  27. filmklassik Member

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    Consider for a moment that you are claiming Trump supporters are Philistines and that the left really isn’t so bad.

    Sorry but I made neither claim. The Philistines I am referring to are Conservatives who support Donald Trump and are intolerant of Conservatives who don’t.

    And you’ll strain your eyes and eventually go blind looking for examples in my posts where I say (or even intimate) that “the Left really isn’t so bad.” If I believed that, I wouldn’t be so sad so much of the time. But Leftism — in the form of aggressive political correctness, race baiting, identity politics, historical revisionism (painting America as a bloodthirsty imperial power), moral equivalency, hostility toward Israel, and now burgeoning support for massive entitlement spending and single-payer health care — all of these things are chipping away at the foundations of our country that make it so unique and wonderful; that make America America.

    And no, Donald Trump is not the antidote to these problems. He’s not even a mitigating factor. For what it’s worth, no lone individual can “solve” these things. But what Trump has done, to my eternal dismay, is toxify Conservatism. He’s made it look loathesome and hateful and dangerous — to the point where tens of millions of young people would never even consider embracing it.

    In many ways, Trump is the most successful ad for Leftism any Lefty could have wished for.

    • #27
    • September 18, 2017, at 3:46 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  28. George Townsend Inactive

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    And no, Donald Trump is not the antidote to these problems. He’s not even a mitigating factor. For what it’s worth, no lone individual can “solve” these things. But what Trump has done, to my eternal dismay, is toxify Conservatism. He’s made it look loathesome and hateful and dangerous — to the point where tens of millions of young people would never even consider embracing it.

    This is the point, isn’t it? I am sorry, but we speaking about Donald Trump, not people who were taken in by him.

    Trumps is not only vulgar, he comes across as mean. And that reflects conservatism, which is anything but. We are trying to help people. To lift them up, and to tell them that they can do more than they think they can, if only they will try use the gifts God gave to each of us. Trump tries to say that we are living in Hell, and he only can get us out of it.

    • #28
    • September 18, 2017, at 5:35 AM PDT
    • Like
  29. Richard Easton Member

    If anyone’s interested in an example of my responding to a person who’s being pretty disagreeable, I give you the following reply I gave to the first head of the GPS Joint Program Office. Here is my article addressing the errors of two bestselling authors (alas, it should be Steven Johnson). And here I address a common GPS origins myth. Here I am speaking at the Explorers Club, at Air Force Space Command (four star Gen Hyten introduced us)

    and on C-Span

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?427553-2/global-positioning-system-history

    And I not being emotional when I state that I find most of the NTs to be boring and repetitive.

    • #29
    • September 18, 2017, at 3:29 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  30. George Townsend Inactive

    Richard Easton (View Comment):
    And I not being emotional when I state that I find most of the NTs to be boring and repetitive.

    Richard:

    I have no interest in this GPS issue. And I certainly would not dare to question either your intelligence or your motives. In my mind that would be an immoral thing to do.

    I do question your judgement regarding President Trump. Questioning one’s judgement is a far cry from questioning anything else about them. The most brilliant people may have lapses in judgement at one point or another.

    I can only speak for myself. I call myself a Trump-Skeptic. I find the phrase Never-Trumper both inaccurate and insulting. First of all, the election is long over. How could anyone be a NT at this point? Further, the phrase does not speak to why the individual person my not have voted for Trump. By grouping all of us into one box, it is violative of the very idea of what being a conservative is all about.

    Neither did I vote for Hillary. I consider her, not only affront to our country, because of what she did with the server, but a transgressor of everything I believe about what our land is about. Liberalism threatens the very nature of our country, and insults every person, with its condescension.

    To me, however, Donald Trump is as bad. He has always been a liberal, for Heaven’s sake. And his boorishness and vulgar behavior insults his high office, and everything that we, as conservatives, stand for. He has done several good things. Never denied it. But that doesn’t mean he is a good fit for the office. Why don’t we ever give the credit for his accomplishments to the Vice President? If you want me to give Trump credit for Gorsuch, fine. I will. You credit Pence for Trump’s appointments.

    You have accused me, sir, of insulting you. I think it is the other way around. Every time you accuse me of being an NT, say I am boring and repetitive, or presume to think I am questioning your intelligence, you are insulting me. And I resent it.

    • #30
    • September 19, 2017, at 4:11 AM PDT
    • Like