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Hey Michael, you ever charge into gunfire — tell me what’s that like?
No, I haven’t. That’s why I admire real cops. They sign up to do what the rest of us don’t.
Have you ever stood outside building where unarmed kids were being murdered, looked down at the gun on your hip, then hidden behind a car? Tell me what THAT’S like?
Mr. Graham, the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a constitutional duty to protect citizens, see Castle Rock v. Gonzales. So, unless a city or state has a specific rule about this, the deputy who did not go in was doing nothing wrong.
You are perfectly correct in your moral outrage, but the oft-heard phrase, “When seconds count, the police are minutes away,” is true, the first responder is you. That’s why you should concealed carry, and train, train, train, if you are capable, and take a CPR and first aid class.
Michael you’re right, but the truth is actually much worse than you know. Yes, the school resource officer – a deputy sheriff of Broward County – did exactly as Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel preached: law enforcement can do nothing.
What you likely don’t know is that over the past few years, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel has sent every Broward County cop to training where they were instructed not to enter a building where there is an active shooting until at least at least THREE (3) armed backup arrive. (I have a source on this story, who was at the training.)
So now the Broward County citizens are likely going to have to shell out for a huge payment to the school resource officer, who has been defamed by the Broward County Sheriff for doing exactly what the Broward County Sheriff instructed him to do.
Words fail to describe the monstrous stupidity of this *bleep*-show of idiocy known as Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel.
You’re also correct that this is a direct consequence of unionized government employees. We have seen the same process occur in the public schools: everything that has been done in the past 30 years has been to benefit teachers, not the students, and certainly not the taxpayers. In the unionized police industry, police are being trained to think of themselves first, citizens second … if at all.
Michael, I’m surprised you didn’t bring up the fact that 16-year-olds generally don’t pay taxes, or have to support themselves. (Or not that I heard.) Without going through a legal process of emancipation, they can’t sue or be sued, can they? I think 17-years-old can get a waiver to serve in the military, but I don’t think 16-year-olds can. It seems these would be a factor in whether they’re eligible for suffrage. They would be voting on a lot of things they can’t even have a stake in.
While we’re on the subject of 16-year-olds, people know that cars are much more dangerous for teenagers to own than ARs, right? Right? Do people not know this?
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Seriously? If that’s true, what is the point of having a deputy there at all? He’s just decorative.
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My sophomore year my high school was closed and the students went to a different school. The two student groups were from the opposite sides of town and the school was overcrowded. Evey couple of weeks there’d be a fight in the halls- until two girls get into it and one pulled a knife.
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After the incident where a 16 yr old girl was stabbed we had 4 to 6 armed off-duty cops in school during regular class hours. There’d be one for after-school activities. During the day they were study hall monitors and watched the hallways between classes.
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Cal, if your point is that Michael may be overestimating how many guys would rush in (‘the deputy did something you or I couldn’t – waited outside while kids were killed’), then you may be right. I don’t know how many of us are like the fellow at Sutherland Springs. I suspect most aren’t.
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Where I agree with Michael is that law enforcement are trained and usually begin in a probationary capacity with someone more experienced. I think they should know whether they are able to charge in or not – and if not find another line of work.
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Where I disagree with Michael is that rushing in to protect people and possibly getting shot in the process is IMHO vastly different from refraining from acting when you think someone may be pulling a weapon on you and maybe getting shot in the process. The first is part of the job. The second definitely isn’t.
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If someone is getting an object from under a seat or behind their back, and an officer tells them to freeze or stop or drop it, then that person needs to follow instructions. The cop doesn’t need to wait until he can positively identify the object as a gun rather than a cell phone or wallet.
ROASTED
Ignore the lack of stars and tilt it at just the right angle…
Argument against 16 yr olds being treated as adults and getting to vote… sure, there are dumb people of all ages, but no one over the age of 20 needs to be told that these aren’t candy.
Jonathan Bernstein said your view about voting is progressive. I’m not sure. I think that the idea that a responsible citizen should be engaged and informed and think carefully about policy when voting was a progressive idea before the Depression. It became mainstream by the 50’s.
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It started to become conservative after liberals pushed for motor-voter laws that automatically registered teenagers and Spanish ballots for immigrants who can’t read English. Now, liberals want you to use an app to vote by phone and think it’s unjust to ensure the legitimacy of the vote by verifying your identity. (Although an FB post by Vlad apparently is a threat.) It’s the left which has fallen back in love with the form of voting he talked about where the pre-printed ballots were color coded. Not only was that a way to see who got a free beer for using the ‘right’ ballot, but it also meant you could vote without being able to read.
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I think I know why you and Silverman talked past each other. You and I think of marriage as a precursor to having children. You want someone to be responsible if they’re entrusted with a child’s welfare. If they’re irresponsible then a child may be harmed.
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Silverman sees marriage as an affirmation of love between two people. Responsibility doesn’t enter into it the way it does with buying a gun or renting a car. No one can be harmed by two people loving one another.
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Yeah, something pretty much like that. It’s a difference between marriage as a lifelong commitment, versus something you do for your feels.
Taxpayer dollars for training, and if a teacher then wants to buy a firearm they can do so out of pocket, thus retaining ownership of the weapon and out of the control of the State.
That aspect is imperative.
Train all school personnel with basic knowledge as a condition for employment, so they’ll know what to do if ever need be.
Continuing education.
The purchase of a gun would be voluntary, not compulsory.
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So now we see that nothing we were told is true: a career peace office did what he was trained to do, but his boss BLAMES him for not acting, remarking specifically that Deputy Scot Peterson’s non-rule breaking “made me sick”. That’s under the bus, reverse, and backed over for good measure. As the day draws to a close we discover three more deputies where there, too, doing as they were trained as well. I bet a buck Deputy Peterson is having trouble sleeping knowing he could have a made a difference that day, if he had not followed his training.
Looks like the fundamental problem here is that Sheriff Scott Israel’s 4-star bar is entirely too heavy for his collar. The downward pressure is cutting off the blood supply to his brain.
(italics added) I don’t recall ever being so horrified and shocked by a politician’s words, but this Scott Israel takes the cake. The mendacity, incompetence, stupidity, hubris, hypocrisy, each one magnifying the other. This is beyond breathtaking. It’s … oh, I don’t know, … suffocating. What a freaking incompetent arrogant mendacious hypocritical moron, to put it politely.
This adds Shakespearean tragedy to the outrage. I bet several bucks that Deputy Scot Peterson was torn up inside while he was following his training. Now he’s being publicly shamed by his boss, who conducted that training. I don’t envy Scot Peterson’s conscience. I can’t imagine how he restrained himself for four full minutes while he heard shots being fired inside the building.
I haven’t seen any media reports yet saying that they were trained to not go in. This story says that they can decide for themselves .. .
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/23/what-deputy-supposed-do-school-shooting-go/368252002/
You certainly haven’t seen any media reports yet explaining what every law enforcement officer in Broward County knows: Sheriff Israel sponsored training for all of Broward County law enforcement where officers were instructed to do nothing in an active shooter situation until three (3) armed backup arrive.
An objective journalist could break this story pretty easily. From the USA Today article:
This directly contradicts what Sheriff Scott Israel has told Broward County law enforcement officers in training for active shooter situations. I suspect this will come up either in Scot Peterson’s union-represented grievance procedures, or in Scot Peterson’s defamation lawsuit against the Sheriff of Broward County. If there were any real journalists left in America, it would already be reported.