On September 29, 2014, Kevin Williamson and Charlie Cooke recorded an episode of Mad Dogs and Englishmen, which they prophetically titled “Everyone Hates Kevin … Again.” The topics discussed during the episode were, “Kevin’s piece on Lena Dunham, abortion, and the silliness of fetishizing the vote.” Charlie started the discussion by saying, “Tell everyone why the Internet hates you, Kevin,” to which Kevin replied, “It’s Monday.”

Earlier today, Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor of The Atlantic, fired Kevin, in part, for comments he made during this podcast. At Ricochet, no idea expressed in a civil manner is ever censored. We are proud to carry the podcast, and proud to be a supporter of such a provocative, biting, fearless, and brilliant writer. Ricochet stands for free expression and inquiry.

Listen to the episode yourself, make up your own mind, and let us know in the comments what you think.

 

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There are 44 comments.

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  1. Member

    Seriously, this could be one of the best things that has ever happened to The Republic in a long time. 

    • #1
    • April 5, 2018 at 3:24 pm
    • 2 likes
  2. Thatcher

    A lot of us knew The Atlantic would cave. Strayed too far from the herd.

    • #2
    • April 5, 2018 at 3:41 pm
    • 5 likes
  3. Member

    IMO, far too many don’t read him close enough for their own expediency. 

    • #3
    • April 5, 2018 at 3:44 pm
    • 4 likes
  4. Member

    I didn’t always agree with Kevin but I have listened to the Mad Dogs podcast for several years. I just gave a re-listen to the podcast that raised the ire of NARAL & Media Matters and led to his termination by the Atlantic. It’s so clear from his comments that he’s making a hyperbolic, over-the-top statement to demonstrate a point, i.e., that he believes abortion to be an immoral act. He says he doesn’t expect abortion to be punished criminally for about 150 years. I’ve always enjoyed the provocative interplay between Charlie and Kevin on the Mad Dogs podcast. It’s a real shame he’s been declared a non-person now by the Left. I’d love to see him taken back by National Review but he may have burned his bridges this time. Maybe Reason magazine would have him.

    • #4
    • April 5, 2018 at 4:20 pm
    • 10 likes
  5. Thatcher

    What do I think of KW’s comments? He accurately represents and articulates the sincerely held, good-faith, non-malicious belief of tens of millions of his fellow Americans. It is no wonder that so many of us feel alienated from the mainstream, “polite” culture; our sincerely held beliefs are disqualifying when it comes to articulation in the public square.

    The pernicious effect is, of course, that when someone so articulate, interesting, inventive, and civil as KW is denied a voice in a mainstream outlet, the rest of us take note and tune out even further. It just confirms what we have witnessed for far too long.

    The polarization of America proceeds apace. I wonder if the PC-thinkers in outlets such as The Atlantic ever ponder their responsibility for such things as, say, the election of President Trump?

    • #5
    • April 5, 2018 at 4:32 pm
    • 8 likes
  6. Thatcher

    I’ve listened to every episode of Mad Dogs, and was pretty disappointed when it shut down with Kevin’s move. It’s pretty clear that you don’t hire someone like a Kevin without reading all of his stuff, which is out there for easy review.

    Which means they did it because he was a bridge too far for the milquetoastian Atlantic, and kicked him curbside.

    Which also means they’re cowards, in the literal sense. Maybe it’s better he knows that now (instead of six months in or the like), and that the Atlantic has re-affirmed to everyone who they really are.

    • #6
    • April 5, 2018 at 4:38 pm
    • 8 likes
  7. Member

    Come back Kevin, come back! 

    The Atlantic crowd don’t deserve your thinking.

    • #7
    • April 5, 2018 at 4:50 pm
    • 8 likes
  8. Inactive

    Dan N (View Comment):
    It’s so clear from his comments that he’s making a hyperbolic, over-the-top statement to demonstrate a point, i.e., that he believes abortion to be an immoral act.

    .

    I don’t agree. I think he meant it literally but was talking about what he thinks would be a morally correct set of laws. People are acting like he was saying that we should try to make it public policy today. As you already pointed out, he was thinking in terms of c. 2164. He also said he would want it treated as a homicide, but he’s not entirely sure he supports capital punishment in general.
    .
    Until about a month ago people talked about gun control in terms of practical goals without admitting that they hope that in 50 years only police and military will be allowed to own guns. Now the left speaks openly about a long-term project that would require creating a new cultural consensus around principles currently rejected by half the nation. I think that that is what Kevin was doing too.

    • #8
    • April 5, 2018 at 5:03 pm
    • 6 likes
  9. Inactive

    Hey Media Matters, at 8:32 he says “Obama is a Muslim!”

    • #9
    • April 5, 2018 at 6:03 pm
    • Like
  10. Member

    Did you see this clownish circular reasoning on the twitter feed: “this is advocating for the hanging of women who have a LEGAL medical procedure”. 

    Uh, dude, if there were legal penalties (of any kind) for an abortion, that by definition would mean the “medical procedure” was not legal. The fact that he put legal in all caps just makes it all the more ironic.

    • #10
    • April 5, 2018 at 6:18 pm
    • 2 likes
  11. Coolidge

    Dang. Initially I thought this was a new episode which meant a new beginning for MD&E. 

    • #11
    • April 5, 2018 at 6:22 pm
    • 4 likes
  12. Coolidge

    The Atlantic is utterly pathetic. I tried listening to a couple of podcasts there a while back and would have gone to the site to read Kevin Williamson. I found the podcasts boring and easily forgotten and now I will happily continue to give that bunch of smug cowards a wide berth. I do hope that Kevin and Charles resume their podcasts.

    • #12
    • April 5, 2018 at 7:10 pm
    • 4 likes
  13. Member

    Kevin D. Williamson is part of my trifecta of favorite opinion writers, along with Charles CW Cooke and Jonah Goldberg.

    I’m sure he will land on his feet, because he is just to skilled a writer not to.

    • #13
    • April 5, 2018 at 7:23 pm
    • 8 likes
  14. Reagan

    We accept you.

    We accept you.

    One of us.

    (Gabba gabba, hey!)

    • #14
    • April 5, 2018 at 11:15 pm
    • Like
  15. Member

    Looking forward to reading/listening to him lambaste The Atlantic. 

    • #15
    • April 5, 2018 at 11:46 pm
    • 2 likes
  16. Coolidge

    Erika Kinder (View Comment):

    Kevin D. Williamson is part of my trifecta of favorite opinion writers, along with Charles CW Cooke and Jonah Goldberg.

    I’m sure he will land on his feet, because he is just to skilled a writer not to.

    He will undeniably get a job, and will continue to anger a sizable portion of Trump supporters for daring to think for himself.

    • #16
    • April 6, 2018 at 7:39 am
    • 1 like
  17. Coolidge

    I have temporarily returned from hibernation(briefly) to comment on this issue.

    I listened to the podcast last night. How typical of the mob to try to transform Kevin’s obvious compassion into advocacy for mass murder of women!

    It seems clear that Kevin is, at best, troubled by the death penalty. That is the point of his reference to hanging. He wants people to be honest about what the death penalty means. It is an execution and annihilation of another human. His follow-up story about seeing a hanging in India makes clear that he is deeply uncomfortable with hanging. If people had to confront the realities of the death penalty they might or might not still support it, but at least they could be honest about what they are doing.

    Abortion he views as the very worst sort of murder. Premeditated annihilation of the helpless for purposes of convenience. So if one supports the death penalty for murder in the first degree, how could one not support the same for those who kill their own children?

    He does not specifically believe in hanging only for those who commit abortions. He does believe that abortion should be treated as homicide. This strikes me just about the only truly logical position on the issue I have read, and is consistent with compassion — the innocent should not not be executed — and libertarianism, where the purpose of the state is to protect its ctiziens from the use of force by others.

    What is so terrible about all of this? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

    • #17
    • April 6, 2018 at 8:13 am
    • 4 likes
  18. Coolidge

    Also, I started going to the Atlantic for the sole purpose of reading Kevin’s articles. Now that he is gone, I won’t go to its website anymore. I am sure there are many more like me. The Atlantic’s decision to cut him loose so abruptly does not seem like a wise business decision either.

    • #18
    • April 6, 2018 at 8:21 am
    • 1 like
  19. Coolidge

    James Golden (View Comment):
    Abortion he views as the very worst sort of murder. Premeditated annihilation of the helpless for purposes of comveince. So if one supports the death penalty for murder in the first degree, how could one not support the same for those who kill their own children?

    It’s also worth pointing out that KDW thinks of abortion as the potential murder of his prenatal self

    • #19
    • April 6, 2018 at 8:54 am
    • 3 likes
  20. Coolidge

    And another also: Those howling about Kevin’s comments completely missed his belief that technology may solve the abortion debate in the near future.

    • #20
    • April 6, 2018 at 8:55 am
    • 2 likes
  21. Coolidge

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    James Golden (View Comment):
    Abortion he views as the very worst sort of murder. Premeditated annihilation of the helpless for purposes of comveince. So if one supports the death penalty for murder in the first degree, how could one not support the same for those who kill their own children?

    It’s also worth pointing out that KDW thinks of abortion as the potential murder of his prenatal self

    A-Squared (View Comment):

    James Golden (View Comment):
    Abortion he views as the very worst sort of murder. Premeditated annihilation of the helpless for purposes of comveince. So if one supports the death penalty for murder in the first degree, how could one not support the same for those who kill their own children?

    It’s also worth pointing out that KDW thinks of abortion as the potential murder of his prenatal self

    Indeed, and he is probably right to think so

     

    • #21
    • April 6, 2018 at 9:05 am
    • Like
  22. Member

    I have always enjoyed the Mad Dogs podcast. I have for some time seen Charles Cooke as the heir to Buckley with regards to intelligent, well-reasoned, and unflinching Conservative thought. Kevin’s take no prisoners blunt intellectual honesty is great even when I don’t agree with either his prognostications or solutions but he is so far from the “troll” that he has been accused of playing. What a statement on the condition of Liberal Intellectuals that they would resort to bullying an editor to have another writer fired. I hope Kevin finds a new home for his talents soon and maybe we get to keep the Mad Dog and the Englishman even if they only record a few times a year!

    • #22
    • April 6, 2018 at 11:00 am
    • 3 likes
  23. Member

    KW is brilliant. Based on VDH’s recent article, there is reason to believe that he has burnt some bridges at NR… lets just hope it wasn’t any of the important ones. I, for one, would certainly like to read him there again. 

    • #23
    • April 6, 2018 at 1:59 pm
    • Like
  24. Member

    @peterrobinson Has Williamson ever been a guest on the flagship podcast?

     

    • #24
    • April 6, 2018 at 2:00 pm
    • 1 like
  25. Coolidge

    Countrymouse (View Comment):

    KW is brilliant. Based on VDH’s recent article, there is reason to believe that he has burnt some bridges at NR… lets just hope it wasn’t any of the important ones. I, for one, would certainly like to read him there again.

    I doubt KDW has burned that many bridges at NR. 

    NR is a home for conflicting opinins unlike, well, the Atlantic. 

    • #25
    • April 6, 2018 at 2:27 pm
    • 1 like
  26. Admin

    Countrymouse (View Comment):

    @peterrobinson Has Williamson ever been a guest on the flagship podcast?

    Yes, but not in a long time. We tend not book guests who have their own shows on our network. We’ll for sure have him on again soon. 

    • #26
    • April 6, 2018 at 3:34 pm
    • 4 likes
  27. Coolidge

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Countrymouse (View Comment):

    @peterrobinson Has Williamson ever been a guest on the flagship podcast?

    Yes, but not in a long time. We tend not book guests who have their own shows on our network. We’ll for sure have him on again soon.

    Bring back Mad Dogs and an ex-Englishman please!

    • #27
    • April 6, 2018 at 3:35 pm
    • 3 likes
  28. Member

    contrarian (View Comment):
    Now the left speaks openly about a long-term project that would require creating a new cultural consensus around principles currently rejected by half the nation. I think that that is what Kevin was doing too.

    Nat Hentoff once wrote that someday we will look back and wonder why we allowed abortion to be legal, that it is a barbaric practice. We don’t do lobotomies anymore.

    • #28
    • April 6, 2018 at 5:41 pm
    • 2 likes
  29. Member

    I could swear I saw a comment that mentioned John Derbyshire, but now it’s gone. Is that A Person Who Shall Not Be Named by the Ricochet Powers That Be? If so, I have to seriously reconsider being a paid subscriber to Ricochet.

     

    @roblong @peterrobinson

    • #29
    • April 6, 2018 at 10:51 pm
    • Like
  30. Coolidge

    I think Screaming Airplane Babies (or Chorus of Screaming Airplane Babies) would be a good name for a band.

    • #30
    • April 7, 2018 at 4:48 pm
    • Like
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