Kevin and Charlie discuss socialism, nationalism, and Brexit.

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There are 9 comments.

  1. Penfold Member

    I agree that personal weapon ownership is an inalienable right. I take “inalienable” to mean no man can abridge this right. So how do we justify the denial of or confiscation of weapons from those we deem to be irresponsible or criminal? We do and should, but I’d be interested in the arguments involved.

    • #1
    • April 4, 2019, at 8:18 AM PST
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  2. Jason Obermeyer Member

    The Federalist concern about the Bill of Rights has been proven correct in the course of time. Their concern was that explicitly stating that the government could not do X, Y, and Z implied that the government would otherwise have the power to do X, Y, and Z in the absence of the prohibition.

    Over time, the reading of the Constitution has changed from “the government can only do the things listed in the main body of the Constitution” to “the government can do anything so long as it doesn’t violate the Bill of Rights.” While I can’t call a specific one to mind, there are opinions by more liberal justices paraphrasing to latter formulation. The expansion of government might have occurred over time anyway, but the fact remains that the Federalists where proven right in the version of reality that has actually played out. 

    • #2
    • April 4, 2019, at 9:28 AM PST
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  3. colleenb Member

    Enjoyed the discussion. Especially that the right to bear arms is a universal right and was/is as fundamental as the right to free speech. 

    • #3
    • April 4, 2019, at 10:56 AM PST
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  4. Texmoor Coolidge

    As a student of the Reformation, I found Kevin’s comparison of the EU to the medieval Catholic Church fascinating.

    • #4
    • April 4, 2019, at 11:53 AM PST
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  5. RufusRJones Member

    Texmoor (View Comment):
    I found Kevin’s comparison of the EU to the medieval Catholic Church fascinating.

    I can’t wait to hear this. The EU became completely overwrought by the 80s. 

    • #5
    • April 4, 2019, at 11:59 AM PST
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  6. Chris Hutchinson Coolidge

    When Charlie was talking about the Federalists/Anti-Federalists and the Leave voters splintering after the referendum, I thought about the Irish Civil War right after their independence. I’m glad we didn’t let it go that far.

    • #6
    • April 4, 2019, at 12:30 PM PST
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  7. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Penfold (View Comment):

    I agree that personal weapon ownership is an inalienable right. I take “inalienable” to mean no man can abridge this right. So how do we justify the denial of or confiscation of weapons from those we deem to be irresponsible or criminal? We do and should, but I’d be interested in the arguments involved.

    Undoubtedly best left to Constitutional scholars and I’m certainly not that. However, I would think that your “inalienable” right is curtailed when your actions infringe the inalienable rights of others. Acting irresponsibly or criminally with a weapon would certainly infringe the rights of others.

    • #7
    • April 5, 2019, at 7:14 AM PST
    • 1 like
  8. Penfold Member

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):
    However, I would think that your “inalienable” right is curtailed when your actions infringe the inalienable rights of others.

    Well said, and has historical precedent:

    Attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes: "The right to swing my fist ends
    where the other man's nose begins."
    Attributed to Judge Learned Hand: "Your right to swing your fist ends
    where my nose begins."
    Attributed to John Stuart Mill: "The right to swing my arms in any
    direction ends where your nose begins."
    Attributed to Abraham Lincoln "My right to swing my fist ends where
    your nose begins."
    • #8
    • April 5, 2019, at 8:59 AM PST
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  9. RufusRJones Member

    All they need to do is resource the gun laws that are already on the books. 

    • #9
    • April 5, 2019, at 9:35 AM PST
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