Kevin and Charlie discuss Thanksgiving and which of them loves America more.

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There are 6 comments.

  1. Al Sparks Thatcher

    I enjoyed the conversation about love of country and the difference in attitude between Kevin and Charles. One question that occurred to me was whether Kevin or Charles speak a foreign language.

    I am more in Kevin’s camp when it comes about my attitude towards this country. I’m discouraged for much the same reasons Kevin gave.

    Yet, I know that this isn’t the first time in our history, even recent history, where speech was culturally suppressed, at least in parts of the country.

    Where and when I grew up, not far from Lubbock, openly declaring yourself an atheist might get you in a little trouble. And long haired hippies in that part of the country might receive the same hostility that someone wearing a MAGA hat might in San Francisco. By the time I was born, the anti-Communist fervor as personified by Joe McCarthy, was starting to die down and was spent by the time I started becoming aware of my surroundings. But at it its height, you could lose your job if you expressed support for Communists. That extended into the mid-1960’s.

    Arlo Guthrie’s Alice’s Restaurant didn’t come from nowhere, and it’s supposed to be an exaggeration of a true story.

    Going into the late 1960’s and early 70’s, don’t forget that there were real domestic terrorist groups like the Weather Underground, or the Symbionese Liberation Army.

    In some ways, however, I think that what we’re enduring now is worse, though I’m not sure I can explain it. I’m pretty sure my own father, who served in the military during the latter part of World War II and expressed a quiet patriotism, was just as concerned in the 1960’s as I am now in this time. But it seems like there are less institutions at ground level that are missing now. The left has managed to sideline such organizations like the Boy Scouts, the Elks, the Masons, and other fraternal (and maternal) organizations. The attack on masculinity is doing untold damage, and I wonder when this level of antagonism will spend itself out.

    Like Kevin, I don’t watch television or listen to standard talk radio, though I guess podcasts sort of count as talk radio. Still I’m not listening to people who yell. I’m not active on Twitter, and my twitter following is limited to news outlets and a few conservative personalities.

    And where I live and the circle of people I’m around, few of us talk politics.

    What I really find discouraging is how petty our differences are and how much more outraged we are over those petty differences.

    And the left implicitly admits the pettiness when it refers to micro-aggressions.

    It’s hard to be proud of the American people, especially the left who express so much contempt for what we are, or more importantly what we were historically. They want to throw that all away.

    But there doesn’t seem to be anywhere else to go.

    • #1
    • November 26, 2019, at 8:45 PM PST
    • 1 like
  2. big spaniel Member

    Charles — I’m listening to you talk about college football v English football. What the hell are you talking about? English football has been engrained in the culture for four or five generations already. People in English towns love their local club: big, medium, small; Premiership, Championship, First Division, Second Division, amateur level. It is in the fabric of a community. They start watching as children and continue as long as they are able to walk or be moved. I met a Nottingham Forest supporter who’s been watching his club since 1947, and almost cried when I shook his hand.  I wanted what he had.  Supporters will organize to buy their club if they are in danger of losing it. Men spend their afternoons watching the early game at their favorite pub before walking over to their local grounds to support the local team. One of my best memories is having a pint of cider at a nearby pub before going to see Notts County (the oldest club in the world: 1862). The feeling of love and community is exactly the same I get when I spend a Saturday afternoon watching my alma mater. The English are lucky: they have this fall, winter and spring.

    • #2
    • November 26, 2019, at 8:57 PM PST
    • Like
  3. TCNYMEX Thatcher

    Pretty sure it’s sestercentennial rather than sesqui … If I’m missremembering that than Sister Mary Margaret Constancia’s yardstick knuckle raps were in vain

    • #3
    • November 27, 2019, at 4:11 AM PST
    • Like
  4. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge

    Al Sparks (View Comment):
    But there doesn’t seem to be anywhere else to go.

    Therein lies the rub ;) I grew up in Australia and it is a great country or it was then, but has someone once said, “If the USA sneezes, Australia catches a cold”. All the stupid people and ideas that upset Kevin are down there and they don’t have the protection of our wonderful Constitution. 

    I have also visited and lived in many countries as I was in the Australian foreign service and then married an American foreign service officer. Botswana was my favorite country. Great place where they seem to do things well much of the time. But I dearly love the USA and completely understand Charlie’s position. I also love Texas and the people there. I often feel my blood pressure lowers when I visit Texas and get away from the madness of northern Virginia. 

    • #4
    • November 27, 2019, at 9:07 AM PST
    • Like
  5. Henry Castaigne Member

    Humans have always been small-minded and vain. America doesn’t seem too unusual to me in it’s small-mindedness and pettiness. 

    Theodore Dalrymple has a pretty good line about that in one of his more recent pieces about Brexit. 

    Many of my acquaintances voted to remain, and most cannot conceive of how anybody who was not a xenophobic, warmongering ignoramus could have voted otherwise. Some are proud that they know no one who voted for Brexit (I do not tell them how I voted) and are not in the least embarrassed that they are confessing to know no single member of the 52 percent who voted to leave, like a duchess who knows no one in trade.

    I would not be proud, nor wear it as a badge of social, educational, and intellectual distinction, that I knew no one in favor of remaining. Rather, it would worry me that I knew so little of my fellow countrymen.

    Such is humanity. They were just as foolish in Anna Karenina and The Brothers Karamazov.

    • #5
    • November 27, 2019, at 3:10 PM PST
    • 1 like
  6. Henry Racette Contributor

    “I mean I’m not, you know, a hundred percent turned on the United States. I’m not going to give some Noam Chomsky lecture about the wickedness of American life, the hollowness and whatnot of it….” — Kevin Williamson

    Well, glad to hear it, I guess.

    • #6
    • November 27, 2019, at 9:49 PM PST