There are 15 comments.

  1. Max Ledoux Admin

    Apparently the creator of Chernobyl is pretty upset that viewers of his show are coming to the conclusion that Socialism is bad. 

    • #1
    • June 5, 2019, at 7:11 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  2. Julia1492 Member

    Can anyone help flesh out the claim that the death total isn’t actually higher than the Soviets stated? Was Toby (or James, I can’t tell which is which) referring only to the number of people who died in the immediate aftermath, like in the hospitals? Or is he actually disputing the number of people who died from the radiation and cancer elsewhere? Not to mention the birth deformities that resulted as well. I’m confused. 

    • #2
    • June 5, 2019, at 7:28 AM PDT
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  3. Ronnie Listener

    Farage rightly gets credit for being a huge force and avatar for Brexit, but expecting him to do or be anything beyond that is absurd.

    He slips in and out of politics whenever he feels like his work is done, which means that he does not consider “his work” to include drudgery like actually shepherding through negotiations with the EU, or executing a deal, or working out the details involved in a no-deal Brexit, let alone any bi-lateral negotiations that would need to follow such an event. It’s perfectly fine that he has a singular goal and that he creates and abandons his vehicles toward that goal repeatedly. What’s absurd is to expect him to stick around for the complex job of governing, or to expect that those who would support him on that one goal will also support whatever his policies might be relating to anything other than Brexit. 

    UKIP was not a proper vehicle for him this time around not because they’re any less pro-Brexit than before, but because they now have policies other than Brexit and Farage does not like to fight on more than one front. Again, it’s a useful and effective tactic that spares one from having to defend more than one very narrow stance and allows one to ignore all other disagreements and controversies, but it is not, by any stretch, a position that is conducive to building a nation-governing party or coalition.

    • #3
    • June 5, 2019, at 8:27 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  4. Ronnie Listener

    Regarding Cleese and the Englishness of London, I find it interesting that it’s perfectly fine to glowingly and admiringly describe London as international, cosmopolitan, multicultural, European, etc., as its own mayor does loudly and often, but if one says what amounts to the exact same thing only without viewing it as if it’s the best thing to ever have happened, with no possible downsides, trade-offs, or losses of any positive aspects, or even if one just mentions the fact that a place cannot be all those things and still be mostly, mainly, culturally English, that’s somehow an affront to all that is good and decent in the world.

    One may celebrate that London is not English, but one may not lament that London is not English. 

    I’m not saying it’s not a valid stance to believe that a non-English London is better than an English London. We can debate that or agree to disagree. But to insist that it’s both not true & anyone who says it must be racist while at the same time insisting that it’s a positive good is an incoherent and frankly insane position to take, and one that’s actually been espoused on mainstream outlets.

    • #4
    • June 5, 2019, at 8:49 AM PDT
    • 6 likes
  5. Moneyman Member

    Another excellent podcast!! I learn more about British politics here than any other source.

    • #5
    • June 5, 2019, at 9:14 AM PDT
    • Like
  6. Ronnie Listener

    Julia1492 (View Comment):

    Can anyone help flesh out the claim that the death total isn’t actually higher than the Soviets stated? Was Toby (or James, I can’t tell which is which) referring only to the number of people who died in the immediate aftermath, like in the hospitals? Or is he actually disputing the number of people who died from the radiation and cancer elsewhere? Not to mention the birth deformities that resulted as well. I’m confused.

    It was James.

    I don’t know what the WHO report he mentioned measured, but agree it would be interesting to know more. Perhaps a link would be useful.

    • #6
    • June 5, 2019, at 9:19 AM PDT
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  7. Texmoor Coolidge

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Apparently the creator of Chernobyl is pretty upset that viewers of his show are coming to the conclusion that Socialism is bad.

    He’s also the Ted Cruz college roommate guy from 2016. The only thing good to say about him is that he can make a compelling screenplay.

    • #7
    • June 5, 2019, at 9:20 AM PDT
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  8. Archie Campbell Member

    One of the things to remember about Chernobyl is that even though the show depicts a crumbling Soviet Union, in the West a lot of pundits wrote that we were essentially losing the Cold War, and that we’d have to make our peace with a U.S.S.R. which might end up more powerful than the U.S. And then a few years later when it collapsed those same pundits turned on a dime and said well of course it was bound to collapse what with all of the mean things and bad vibes the West sent its way. Oh, and also, however it collapsed, the Reagan administration’s policies had nothing to do with it. It’s galling, but thankfully now that’s been fixed and pundits are always held to account for their bad thinking.

    • #8
    • June 5, 2019, at 9:27 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  9. Mr Nick Member

    Sometimes I despair. Peterborough is not one of Labour’s safest seats. It was Conservative from 2005 til 2017 when poor Stewart Jackson lost by 600 odd votes in a shock result, Peterborough having voted to Leave by sixty percent. Before that it voted for Tony Blair having been Conservative before 1997. In other words it is nearer a safe Tory seat than a Labour one.

    For shame Toby, deputy editor of the Spectator and vaunted political commentator. Jacko is a player in Brexiteer circles being a long term eurosceptic and then serving as Brexit Secretary David Davis’ chief of staff after losing his seat. He is now a go to source for hearing what those still spouting the government line can’t say. 

    Nor was the by election a regular thing, it was the first time the recall petition had been used and almost twenty thousand people in Peterborough signed it, well over the threshold needed. Much of the campaigning for that was conducted by Jackson and the local Conservative Party members before May’s betrayal, which may have handed the fruits of their hard work to the Brexit Party. This was big news in the small pond of political coverage and the newly marginal nature of Peterborough makes the contest even more interesting in the current time of four party politics. 

    Less Hackery please Mr Young.

     

    • #9
    • June 5, 2019, at 10:03 AM PDT
    • Like
  10. Taras Coolidge

    Archie Campbell (View Comment):

    One of the things to remember about Chernobyl is that even though the show depicts a crumbling Soviet Union, in the West a lot of pundits wrote that we were essentially losing the Cold War, and that we’d have to make our peace with a U.S.S.R. which might end up more powerful than the U.S. And then a few years later when it collapsed those same pundits turned on a dime and said well of course it was bound to collapse what with all of the mean things and bad vibes the West sent its way. Oh, and also, however it collapsed, the Reagan administration’s policies had nothing to do with it. It’s galling, but thankfully now that’s been fixed and pundits are always held to account for their bad thinking.

     At the time, it was amusing that some liberals were willing to accept that the Soviet Union collapsed because of socialism; while socialists insisted it had to be the diabolical policies of the diabolical Reagan. 

     In addition to claiming that the fall of the Soviet Union was all to Gorbachev‘s credit, every once in a while the New York Times would try out a story about how some very particular group of people was worse off after the fall of the Soviet Union, but they stopped pushing that line after a while. 

     A common liberal view of Reagan was: he did everything wrong on the economy and then the economy mysteriously improved; he did everything wrong in foreign policy and then the Soviet Union mysteriously collapsed. Of its own accord, or Gorbie did it, or it was a bad thing, or anyway let’s have less “triumphalism” around here! 

    • #10
    • June 5, 2019, at 10:34 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  11. Max Ledoux Admin

    Julia1492 (View Comment):

    Can anyone help flesh out the claim that the death total isn’t actually higher than the Soviets stated? Was Toby (or James, I can’t tell which is which) referring only to the number of people who died in the immediate aftermath, like in the hospitals? Or is he actually disputing the number of people who died from the radiation and cancer elsewhere? Not to mention the birth deformities that resulted as well. I’m confused.

    James is the one who said the death toll was much less than what people think.

    • #11
    • June 5, 2019, at 11:20 AM PDT
    • Like
  12. Max Ledoux Admin

    Ronnie (View Comment):

    Farage rightly gets credit for being a huge force and avatar for Brexit, but expecting him to do or be anything beyond that is absurd.

    He slips in and out of politics whenever he feels like his work is done, which means that he does not consider “his work” to include drudgery like actually shepherding through negotiations with the EU, or executing a deal, or working out the details involved in a no-deal Brexit, let alone any bi-lateral negotiations that would need to follow such an event. It’s perfectly fine that he has a singular goal and that he creates and abandons his vehicles toward that goal repeatedly. What’s absurd is to expect him to stick around for the complex job of governing, or to expect that those who would support him on that one goal will also support whatever his policies might be relating to anything other than Brexit.

    UKIP was not a proper vehicle for him this time around not because they’re any less pro-Brexit than before, but because they now have policies other than Brexit and Farage does not like to fight on more than one front. Again, it’s a useful and effective tactic that spares one from having to defend more than one very narrow stance and allows one to ignore all other disagreements and controversies, but it is not, by any stretch, a position that is conducive to building a nation-governing party or coalition.

    Well, to be fair to Farage it’s not like he was in a position to do the negotiating on Brexit after the vote in 2016. He wasn’t prime minister.

    • #12
    • June 5, 2019, at 11:22 AM PDT
    • Like
  13. Mr Nick Member

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Ronnie (View Comment):

    Farage rightly gets credit for being a huge force and avatar for Brexit, but expecting him to do or be anything beyond that is absurd.

    He slips in and out of politics whenever he feels like his work is done, which means that he does not consider “his work” to include drudgery like actually shepherding through negotiations with the EU, or executing a deal, or working out the details involved in a no-deal Brexit, let alone any bi-lateral negotiations that would need to follow such an event. It’s perfectly fine that he has a singular goal and that he creates and abandons his vehicles toward that goal repeatedly. What’s absurd is to expect him to stick around for the complex job of governing, or to expect that those who would support him on that one goal will also support whatever his policies might be relating to anything other than Brexit.

    UKIP was not a proper vehicle for him this time around not because they’re any less pro-Brexit than before, but because they now have policies other than Brexit and Farage does not like to fight on more than one front. Again, it’s a useful and effective tactic that spares one from having to defend more than one very narrow stance and allows one to ignore all other disagreements and controversies, but it is not, by any stretch, a position that is conducive to building a nation-governing party or coalition.

    Well, to be fair to Farage it’s not like he was in a position to do the negotiating on Brexit after the vote in 2016. He wasn’t prime minister.

    Apparently there was a move to bring him into government via the House of Lords after the referendum. I don’t think Theresa May was too keen and Farage probably thought they were going to stitch him up so nothing came of it. Hence his supporters’ jokingly referring to him as ‘Sir Nige’, who himself says that after article 50 was passed by almost 500 votes he thought it was job done. Then Mrs May called the election and everything has gone down hill since….

    • #13
    • June 5, 2019, at 12:19 PM PDT
    • 2 likes
  14. JayMiller Lincoln

    Listening to the account of Chernobyl and the attitude of management to downplay and deny the gravity of the situation reminded me of a newsletter published (for the employees) by an electric utility I worked at in the 1980’s, which referred to a power plant being offline due to a “boiler upset”. In reality, the 12-story boiler had exploded and split the corner open for 50 feet! The steel boiler tubes inside looked like spaghetti, and the plant was down for a year to fix all the damage. Boiler upset indeed. 

    • #14
    • June 5, 2019, at 2:47 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  15. Ronnie Listener

    Max Ledoux (View Comment):

    Well, to be fair to Farage it’s not like he was in a position to do the negotiating on Brexit after the vote in 2016. He wasn’t prime minister.

    My point was that he showed no sign that he’s willing to do the work that is required to become PM, as evidenced by his repeated retirements, and so to expect that he’ll somehow create a party to replace one of the big two (and both stick it out and retain the support he has for a single issue when forced to expand into other issues as one must for a general election) seems unrealistic.

     

    • #15
    • June 5, 2019, at 5:31 PM PDT
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