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  1. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    There seemed to be a lack of on-screen chemistry between the characters of Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.

    • #1
  2. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge
    JuliaBlaschke
    @JuliaBlaschke

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):
    There seemed to be a lack of on-screen chemistry between the characters of Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.

    He certainly didn’t appear smitten. She neither.

    • #2
  3. LC Member
    LC
    @LidensCheng

    The poison is in the lipstick. Cersei sees it as poetic justice to kill Ellaria’s daughter the same way that Ellaria poisoned Myrcella.

    It’s been talked about a bit in the past (scenes with Tyrion, Stannis & Davos, etc). The Iron Bank always gets its due. If they don’t, they just fund another army. But yeah those details are mostly left out of the show.

    I’m not sure how anyone would know about the White Walkers. I mean Varys may have a vast network, but no one has spies beyond the wall. It’s not like the White Walkers and their army have crossed the wall yet. Even Northerners, the ones that should believe the most, have forgotten about them over the millennia and dismiss them.

    • #3
  4. LC Member
    LC
    @LidensCheng

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):
    There seemed to be a lack of on-screen chemistry between the characters of Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.

    He certainly didn’t appear smitten. She neither.

    I think it’s mostly because Emilia Clarke is a weak actor. She used to be able to move her face a bit more. But somehow as the story progresses, Clarke has decided that conqueror Dany is someone that can only hold two expressions: confused and triggered.

    I imagine they’re not supposed to like each other during their first meeting. There’s no reason for them to considering their families’ history.

    • #4
  5. BD1 Member
    BD1
    @

    Melisandre: Mistakes were made.

    • #5
  6. Dan Hanson Thatcher
    Dan Hanson
    @DanHanson

    The show has made it clear that the Iron Bank is to be feared.  They won’t foreclose on you, they will kill you and your entire clan if necessary.  If funding your enemies doesn’t do it,  they will send the faceless men in to simply kill you.

    At one point I thought that Arya was let go by the faceless men simply because she planned to kill the top Lannisters, and that suited the faceless men well because they had been contracted by the Iron Bank to do exactly that.  But the show doesn’t seem to be going in that direction now.

    • #6
  7. Richard O'Shea Coolidge
    Richard O'Shea
    @RichardOShea

    After this episode, it looks like the smart money should bet on Cercei to win it all.

    Lady Olenna’s death was just perfect for her character.

    • #7
  8. Mudwallow Member
    Mudwallow
    @

    I’d like to know how Euron Greyjoy’s fleet manages to show up at exactly the right place at exactly right time this episode and, more to the point, in the previous episode.  I was always under the impression that a big part of any sea battle was actually finding the enemy, as happened historically at Midway (and dramatized in the great movie Midway).  Euron’s wooden sail-powered medieval warships somehow manage to locate Yala’s fleet in the middle of the night and at the same time intercept it; at Midway, spotter planes from carriers had trouble seeing massive enemy ships from a long way off in full daylight…

    I suppose chalk it up to help from the Drowned God.

    • #8
  9. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    LC (View Comment):
    I imagine they’re not supposed to like each other during their first meeting. There’s no reason for them to considering their families’ history.

    And Dany has always been a terrible person with an enormous sense of entitlement. Every character who’s ever met her has been instantly in love with her or weak/evil.  It is quite refreshing for someone to look at her and not actually say, “Sure, I’ll do whatever you want because you have [as Olenna Tyrell put it] ludicrous silver hair.”  Jorah, Daario, Barristan, and Tyrion all just show up and worship her. She at least did something to earn the devotion of Misande and Grey Worm, but even there, it was an underhanded trick. And look how she treated Varys for actually wanting to see if she’d be worth following before pledging himself to her!

    Dany lets her ends justify whatever means she likes. Jon actually believes in doing things right as well as doing the right thing. No wonder they can’t stand each other.

    • #9
  10. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Mudwallow (View Comment):
    I’d like to know how Euron Greyjoy’s fleet manages to show up at exactly the right place at exactly right time this episode and, more to the point, in the previous episode. I was always under the impression that a big part of any sea battle was actually finding the enemy, as happened historically at Midway (and dramatized in the great movie Midway). Euron’s wooden sail-powered medieval warships somehow manage to locate Yala’s fleet in the middle of the night and at the same time intercept it; at Midway, spotter planes from carriers had trouble seeing massive enemy ships from a long way off in full daylight…

    I suppose chalk it up to help from the Drowned God.

    Some have suggested that there is a spy in the Mother of Dragon’s army. I think it is Reince Priebus.

    • #10
  11. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Richard O'Shea (View Comment):
    After this episode, it looks like the smart money should bet on Cercei to win it all.

    Lady Olenna’s death was just perfect for her character.

    The dragons will almost certainly turn the tide. And I do not count on an oversized crossbow to deliver a fatal blow to a moving target.

    • #11
  12. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Did it every occur to anyone to send out an expedition to bring back evidence of the White Walkers? Jon Snow has been brooding for years on the fact that he can’t get anyone to believe in them yet, oddly for an alleged man of action, it doesn’t occur to him or anyone else to actually try to obtain evidence of them. What evidence? I don’t know… but then not having a clear plan in place has never stopped Jon Snow before.

    Here is the question Daenarys should have asked Snow: If the White Walkers are so significant as to pose an existential threat to civilization, and you know people don’t believe in them, what have you done to obtain evidence of them? Answer: Nothing.

    • #12
  13. LC Member
    LC
    @LidensCheng

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    Did it every occur to anyone to send out an expedition to bring back evidence of the White Walkers? Jon Snow has been brooding for years on the fact that he can’t get anyone to believe in them yet, oddly for an alleged man of action, it doesn’t occur to him or anyone else to actually try to obtain evidence of them. What evidence? I don’t know… but then not having a clear plan in place has never stopped Jon Snow before.

    Here is the question Daenarys should have asked Snow: If the White Walkers are so significant as to pose an existential threat to civilization, and you know people don’t believe in them, what have you done to obtain evidence of them? Answer: Nothing.

     

    I honestly can’t think of what to bring back. Can’t exactly restrain a white walker. You have to kill them if you can. And they shatter when they die. The men have never been in a situation when they’re not outnumbered.
    Maybe bring back a wight? I imagine even keeping a wight restrained wouldn’t be the easiest job.

    • #13
  14. LC Member
    LC
    @LidensCheng

    Mister D (View Comment):

    Richard O’Shea (View Comment):
    After this episode, it looks like the smart money should bet on Cercei to win it all.

    Lady Olenna’s death was just perfect for her character.

    The dragons will almost certainly turn the tide. And I do not count on an oversized crossbow to deliver a fatal blow to a moving target.

    If the ballista can injure and bring down a dragon, the Mountain can crush its skull right? Seems like a solid plan to me…

    • #14
  15. Dan Hanson Thatcher
    Dan Hanson
    @DanHanson

    It’s one thing to fire a ballista at a stationary dragon skull 20 ft away.  It’s another to hit and do damage to a dragon flying around thousands of feet away.  Ballista are hard to move and aim, which is why they were used mainly as siege weapons and not used against moving soldiers on a battlefield.

    A ballista would also punch a big hole through a fighter plane sitting on the ground,  but that doesn’t mean it would be an effective weapon against a fighter plane attack…

     

    • #15
  16. Richard O'Shea Coolidge
    Richard O'Shea
    @RichardOShea

    LC (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    Did it every occur to anyone to send out an expedition to bring back evidence of the White Walkers? Jon Snow has been brooding for years on the fact that he can’t get anyone to believe in them yet, oddly for an alleged man of action, it doesn’t occur to him or anyone else to actually try to obtain evidence of them. What evidence? I don’t know… but then not having a clear plan in place has never stopped Jon Snow before.

    Here is the question Daenarys should have asked Snow: If the White Walkers are so significant as to pose an existential threat to civilization, and you know people don’t believe in them, what have you done to obtain evidence of them? Answer: Nothing.

    I honestly can’t think of what to bring back. Can’t exactly restrain a white walker. You have to kill them if you can. And they shatter when they die. The men have never been in a situation when they’re not outnumbered.
    Maybe bring back a wight? I imagine even keeping a wight restrained wouldn’t be the easiest job.

    So are they white walkers or wight walkers? I always thought the latter.  I would consult the books but Son O’Shea took them when he moved out.

    • #16
  17. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Mike LaRoche (View Comment):
    There seemed to be a lack of on-screen chemistry between the characters of Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.

    Well, Mike, they are just have trouble with the beginnings of the incest thing, which HBO is trying to help the culture with generally.

    Anyone acting within ten minutes of Lena Headey really pales.

     

    • #17
  18. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    Richard O'Shea (View Comment):

    So are they white walkers or wight walkers? I always thought the latter. I would consult the books but Son O’Shea took them when he moved out.

    The ice creatures (e.g., the Night King) are the White Walkers. Their undead minions are wights.

    In the books, the WW are generally called “the Others.” Apparently, they found that it was confusing when spoken aloud (“Wait…. which others?!?”) so they went with White Walkers instead.

    • #18
  19. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    LC (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    I think it’s mostly because Emilia Clarke is a weak actor. She used to be able to move her face a bit more. But somehow as the story progresses, Clarke has decided that conqueror Dany is someone that can only hold two expressions: confused and triggered.

    Neither Clarke nor Harrington are good actors; with a bad script, they’re awful; with a passable script and director, they’r generally fine; with a good script and director, they can occasionally be pretty good.

    I thought they were both above-average the other night.

    • #19
  20. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    LC (View Comment):

    Mister D (View Comment):

    Richard O’Shea (View Comment):
    After this episode, it looks like the smart money should bet on Cercei to win it all.

    Lady Olenna’s death was just perfect for her character.

    The dragons will almost certainly turn the tide. And I do not count on an oversized crossbow to deliver a fatal blow to a moving target.

    If the ballista can injure and bring down a dragon, the Mountain can crush its skull right? Seems like a solid plan to me…

    That’s a 72 point font “if”

     

    • #20
  21. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Dan Hanson (View Comment):
    It’s one thing to fire a ballista at a stationary dragon skull 20 ft away. It’s another to hit and do damage to a dragon flying around thousands of feet away. Ballista are hard to move and aim, which is why they were used mainly as siege weapons and not used against moving soldiers on a battlefield.

    A ballista would also punch a big hole through a fighter plane sitting on the ground, but that doesn’t mean it would be an effective weapon against a fighter plane attack…

    Plus that dragon skull had been sitting around for centuries. Add muscle, connective tissues and thick scale plating, and… well, good luck getting it into Drogon’s eye socket.

    • #21
  22. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    Did it every occur to anyone to send out an expedition to bring back evidence of the White Walkers? Jon Snow has been brooding for years on the fact that he can’t get anyone to believe in them yet, oddly for an alleged man of action, it doesn’t occur to him or anyone else to actually try to obtain evidence of them. What evidence? I don’t know… but then not having a clear plan in place has never stopped Jon Snow before.

    Here is the question Daenarys should have asked Snow: If the White Walkers are so significant as to pose an existential threat to civilization, and you know people don’t believe in them, what have you done to obtain evidence of them? Answer: Nothing.

    Did you see what happened at Hardhome? Who would volunteer? And it’s not like the have photographic equipment.

    • #22
  23. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    LC (View Comment):

    JuliaBlaschke (View Comment):

    I think it’s mostly because Emilia Clarke is a weak actor. She used to be able to move her face a bit more. But somehow as the story progresses, Clarke has decided that conqueror Dany is someone that can only hold two expressions: confused and triggered.

    Neither Clarke nor Harrington are good actors; with a bad script, they’re awful; with a passable script and director, they’r generally fine; with a good script and director, they can occasionally be pretty good.

    I thought they were both above-average the other night.

    Replay that scene in throne room with Chloe Grace Moretz, who seems to embody entitlement, and it would have filled that cavernous space.  Moretz would also project command over the dragons.  Honestly, Clarke’s Mother of Dragons reminds me of young ineffectual single moms who can’t control their little beasts at the beach.

    • #23
  24. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    Mister D (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    Here is the question Daenarys should have asked Snow: If the White Walkers are so significant as to pose an existential threat to civilization, and you know people don’t believe in them, what have you done to obtain evidence of them? Answer: Nothing.

    Did you see what happened at Hardhome? Who would volunteer? And it’s not like the have photographic equipment.

    In the books, there was evidence:

    Ser Alliser Thorne brings Othor’s still-moving hand in a jar to King’s Landing to try to scare the Iron Throne into sending more men to the Wall. Disliking Alliser, Tyrion Lannister keeps the envoy waiting so long that Othor’s hand decomposes and is unconvincing.

    In the show, Othor’s body was fully burned, so this never happened.

    What bothers me less is the lack of evidence than the fact that neither Jon nor anyone in his retinue seem to have noticed the problem.

    One possible solution is to use Melisandre as a kind of indirect evidence. If she can do some real magic for Dany and then confirms Jon’s story, that’s something. Given both that Mel is on hand and that Davos let slip something about Jon’s resurrection, it seems that’s how they’ll resolve it.

    • #24
  25. Blue Yeti Admin
    Blue Yeti
    @BlueYeti

    • #25
  26. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor
    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen
    @tommeyer

    I like how “Daenerys” is correctly spelled but “Jon” isn’t.

    • #26
  27. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Image may contain: 6 people, outdoor

    • #27
  28. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Can I just say what an utter load of rubbish this is:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/game-of-thrones-sansa-stark-comic-con-2017-sophie-turner-video

    Key quote here (by actress Sophie Turner):\7

    Sansa has been “silently absorbing, learning and adapting.” And what has she learned from her “mentors,” which include such unsavory characters as Petyr Baelish, Joffrey Baratheon, the Hound, Cersei Lannister, and Ramsay Bolton? … “Sansa is just as good at playing the game as Littlefinger at this point.”

    Really?

    Really?

    Littlefinger started out as nothing, a poor boy taken in by the Tullys. Through a combination of hard work, cunning and chicanery, he worked his way up to become Master of Coin, and orchestrated the War of the Five Kings to end up Lord of Harrenhall and the Vale.

    Sansa got her wolf killed. She fell in love with the most vile prick in Westeros. She was a patsy used to commit regicide and had to be saved by Littlefinger. Fleeing to her only living relatives, she was almost killed and had to be saved by Littlefinger. She fled the Vale (aided by Littlefinger) and was married off to the second most vile prick in Westeros, as arranged by Littlefinger. She had to be rescued from that hell by Theon the Useless Eunuch and Brienne the Useless Knight, both of whom proved more competent than her. She then pouts in Castle Black and almost lets her brother die because she didn’t want to ask Littlefinger for help. Again. But she did. Because she had to. Because she is useless, and Littlefinger is not.

    This week, she ordered groceries, with minimal assistance.

    Well done, Sansa.

    • #28
  29. Mister D Member
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Tom Meyer, Common Citizen (View Comment):

    Mister D (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):
    Here is the question Daenarys should have asked Snow: If the White Walkers are so significant as to pose an existential threat to civilization, and you know people don’t believe in them, what have you done to obtain evidence of them? Answer: Nothing.

    Did you see what happened at Hardhome? Who would volunteer? And it’s not like the have photographic equipment.

    In the books, there was evidence:

    Ser Alliser Thorne brings Othor’s still-moving hand in a jar to King’s Landing to try to scare the Iron Throne into sending more men to the Wall. Disliking Alliser, Tyrion Lannister keeps the envoy waiting so long that Othor’s hand decomposes and is unconvincing.

    In the show, Othor’s body was fully burned, so this never happened.

    What bothers me less is the lack of evidence than the fact that neither Jon nor anyone in his retinue seem to have noticed the problem.

    One possible solution is to use Melisandre as a kind of indirect evidence. If she can do some real magic for Dany and then confirms Jon’s story, that’s something. Given both that Mel is on hand and that Davos let slip something about Jon’s resurrection, it seems that’s how they’ll resolve it.

    I think they have acknowledged that all they have is their word to go on. As I recall, Jon, the Night’s Watch and the Wildlings have not confronted the white walkers since Hardhome, so the opportunity for evidence gathering has been sparse.

    • #29
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