The Housewarming Party

Professors Epstein and Yoo both have new digs, but they’re still bringing the same searing legal analysis. On this episode: can Democrats really unseat a Republican House member? What’s the fight about voting rights really about? Can accepting COVID stimulus money prevent states from cutting taxes? Is it time to revisit Supreme Court precedent on slander (John’s old boss thinks so)? All that plus we get a tour of the professors’ bookshelves, learn a little about Wyoming history, and answer a letter from an aspiring young lawyer.

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  1. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    “Richard mentioned a clock, John mentioned a snow globe…”

    “Rosebud…”

    • #1
  2. Quickz Member
    Quickz
    @Quickz

    Near the end when discussing the slander dissent Prof. Yoo speaks to the change in the judge’s rulings/philosophy and the GOP/Conservatism as a whole as one that has become more “populist, anti-institution,” and I couldn’t agree more – though perhaps not for the reasons that the culinary savant Yoo may think.

    I’ve been inspired by this moment in my reply to make my first Member Feed Post, which when up I will link to below.

     

    EDIT: Hey! My first Member Feed post! Give it a read HERE

    • #2
  3. LibertyDefender Inactive
    LibertyDefender
    @LibertyDefender

    When discussing Judge Silberman’s righteous criticism of New York Times v. Sullivan, John Yoo failed to mention that Sarah Palin essentially proved that there is no such thing as “actual malice,” i.e. a knowing or reckless disregard of falsity.*  At this point, Sullivan represents blanket immunity for the press from any consequences for knowingly printing falsehoods. I refuse to believe that the Framers and/or Ratifiers intended for such blanket immunity to be extended to the press when they drafted and ratified the First Amendment’s guarantee of freedom of the press.

    Here’s how we got here:

    In 2011 the New York Times implicated Sarah Palin for Jared Lee Loughner’s murder of 6 people in his attempt to assassinate Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords.  The basis for the Times‘  accusation was that Sarah Palin’s political action committee, SarahPAC, had published a map showing cross-hairs on the districts of various US politicians targeted for defeat on the basis of issues advocated by SarahPAC.  Giffords was one of SarahPAC’s targets. 

    ZERO evidence ever emerged connecting Sarah Palin or the map to Loughner, a paranoid schizophrenic/anti-theist/9/11 truther/grammar conspiracy theorist who had a long-standing grudge against Giffords.  The New York Times ultimately reported – as fact (correctly, this time) – that there was “[n]o connection” between the SarahPAC map and Loughner.

    In June 2017, after James Hodgkinson opened fire on a practice for a congressional baseball game, seriously injuring four people, including Republican Representative Steve Scalise, the New York Times quickly published an editorial about political violence, claiming the “link to political incitement was clear” in the Giffords case, referring to the SarahPAC cross-hairs map.

    Regarding the Hodgkinson case, the Times opined: “Though there’s no sign of incitement as direct as in the Giffords attack, liberals should of course hold themselves to the same standard of decency that they ask of the right.” 

    – Pause –

    In 2017, The New York Times published as fact – Sarah Palin’s incitement of political violence in the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords – what in 2011 that same New York Times had explicitly admitted was untrue.  If ever there was a case of knowing or reckless disregard of falsity, this was it.

     – Resume –

    Within a month of that knowing lie published by the New York Times, Sarah Palin sued the New York Times for defamation.  A month after that, one Jed S. Rakoff (rhymes with? Who knows – he is after all a Clinton appointee) dismissed Sarah Palin’s suit as lacking even the possibility of proving “actual malice.”

    There is no “actual malice” in defamation law, if there is none in Sarah Palin v. New York Times.

    * It is true that Sarah Palin revived the case on appeal, but she won her appeal because Judge Red S. Jakoff screwed up and held an evidentiary hearing, calling only one witness. Had he ruled solely on the pleadings, it’s unlikely the 2d Circuit would have overruled.

    • #3
  4. kylez Member
    kylez
    @kylez

    Maybe the fact that the 2017 one was in an editorial makes it different. But that whole Palin target thing was awful. 

    A couple years ago I watched a program about the shooting, which was an English production, and was happy to see that they never mentioned the Palin nonsense. Being an English production they didn’t have an insular American media’s bias. 

    • #4
  5. Troy Senik Contributor
    Troy Senik
    @TroySenik

    A listener helpfully pointed out that I got the Wyoming story wrong. Wyoming was the first territory to allow women to vote and is still called the Equality State as a result. And Congress really did attempt to get them to drop women’s suffrage as a condition of statehood … but Wyoming refused to go along, with the official response being “We will stay out of the union a hundred years before we come in without our women.” I was conflating its story with Utah’s, where the feds did indeed strip away women’s right to vote.

    As a mea culpa, I will sing Wyoming’s state song on the next episode. If memory serves, it’s “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”

    • #5
  6. kylez Member
    kylez
    @kylez

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    A listener helpfully pointed out that I got the Wyoming story wrong. Wyoming was the first territory to allow women to vote and is still called the Equality State as a result. And Congress really did attempt to get them to drop women’s suffrage as a condition of statehood … but Wyoming refused to go along, with the official response being “We will stay out of the union a hundred years before we come in without our women.” I was conflating its story with Utah’s, where the feds did indeed strip away women’s right to vote.

    As a mea culpa, I will sing Wyoming’s state song on the next episode. If memory serves, it’s “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”

    Got a date for your book yet? I like how Grover Cleveland book is not one of your jokes, and look forward to reading it.

    • #6
  7. Troy Senik Contributor
    Troy Senik
    @TroySenik

    kylez (View Comment):

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    A listener helpfully pointed out that I got the Wyoming story wrong. Wyoming was the first territory to allow women to vote and is still called the Equality State as a result. And Congress really did attempt to get them to drop women’s suffrage as a condition of statehood … but Wyoming refused to go along, with the official response being “We will stay out of the union a hundred years before we come in without our women.” I was conflating its story with Utah’s, where the feds did indeed strip away women’s right to vote.

    As a mea culpa, I will sing Wyoming’s state song on the next episode. If memory serves, it’s “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”

    Got a date for your book yet? I like how Grover Cleveland book is not one of your jokes, and look forward to reading it.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm for a work of history by a guy who just bobbled a historical anecdote (In my defense…I was very, very drunk).

    The Cleveland book should be out around a year from now.

    • #7
  8. DJ EJ Member
    DJ EJ
    @DJEJ

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    A listener helpfully pointed out that I got the Wyoming story wrong. Wyoming was the first territory to allow women to vote and is still called the Equality State as a result. And Congress really did attempt to get them to drop women’s suffrage as a condition of statehood … but Wyoming refused to go along, with the official response being “We will stay out of the union a hundred years before we come in without our women.” I was conflating its story with Utah’s, where the feds did indeed strip away women’s right to vote.

    As a mea culpa, I will sing Wyoming’s state song on the next episode. If memory serves, it’s “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”

    Got a date for your book yet? I like how Grover Cleveland book is not one of your jokes, and look forward to reading it.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm for a work of history by a guy who just bobbled a historical anecdote (In my defense…I was very, very drunk).

    The Cleveland book should be out around a year from now.

    There’s a whole TV show for very drunk people to tell historical anecdotes, the aptly named “Drunk History”. You should ask to be a guest and tell a Grover Cleveland story. It could be good for book sales…or liquor sales.

    • #8
  9. Bishop Wash Member
    Bishop Wash
    @BishopWash

    DJ EJ (View Comment):

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    A listener helpfully pointed out that I got the Wyoming story wrong. Wyoming was the first territory to allow women to vote and is still called the Equality State as a result. And Congress really did attempt to get them to drop women’s suffrage as a condition of statehood … but Wyoming refused to go along, with the official response being “We will stay out of the union a hundred years before we come in without our women.” I was conflating its story with Utah’s, where the feds did indeed strip away women’s right to vote.

    As a mea culpa, I will sing Wyoming’s state song on the next episode. If memory serves, it’s “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”

    Got a date for your book yet? I like how Grover Cleveland book is not one of your jokes, and look forward to reading it.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm for a work of history by a guy who just bobbled a historical anecdote (In my defense…I was very, very drunk).

    The Cleveland book should be out around a year from now.

    There’s a whole TV show for very drunk people to tell historical anecdotes, the aptly named “Drunk History”. You should ask to be a guest and tell a Grover Cleveland story. It could be good for book sales…or liquor sales.

    Troy might have helped Biden steal the election to get the Trump comparisons to Cleveland in the news to boost sales.

    • #9
  10. Troy Senik Contributor
    Troy Senik
    @TroySenik

    Bishop Wash (View Comment):

    DJ EJ (View Comment):

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    kylez (View Comment):

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    A listener helpfully pointed out that I got the Wyoming story wrong. Wyoming was the first territory to allow women to vote and is still called the Equality State as a result. And Congress really did attempt to get them to drop women’s suffrage as a condition of statehood … but Wyoming refused to go along, with the official response being “We will stay out of the union a hundred years before we come in without our women.” I was conflating its story with Utah’s, where the feds did indeed strip away women’s right to vote.

    As a mea culpa, I will sing Wyoming’s state song on the next episode. If memory serves, it’s “The Yellow Rose of Texas.”

    Got a date for your book yet? I like how Grover Cleveland book is not one of your jokes, and look forward to reading it.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm for a work of history by a guy who just bobbled a historical anecdote (In my defense…I was very, very drunk).

    The Cleveland book should be out around a year from now.

    There’s a whole TV show for very drunk people to tell historical anecdotes, the aptly named “Drunk History”. You should ask to be a guest and tell a Grover Cleveland story. It could be good for book sales…or liquor sales.

    Troy might have helped Biden steal the election to get the Trump comparisons to Cleveland in the news to boost sales.

    My publisher was … not unhappy.

    • #10