To mark this historical day, we’ve assembled a panel that we think reflects all sides of the new Trump administration — a mashup of the Ricochet Podcast and Need To Know with Charen and Nordlinger with a dash of Victor Davis Hanson thrown in for flavoring. It’s a bracing conversation that really gets into the weeds on the election and what may lie ahead.

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Members have made 196 comments.

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  1. Profile photo of Blue Yeti Admin

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Did I Make 6 Comments or Only 5 (View Comment):
    However, Jay’s behavior is beyond the pale. It would be one thing for Jay to thus attack Trump while being charitable to his supporters as misguided. But he is equally vicious to Trump’s supporters, even very reluctant supporters. He even lashed out at James, who is to a great extent on the same side (James is evidently insufficiently uncivil).

    Dude, to use the word “vicious” to describe Jay Nordlinger is pretty laughable. He doesn’t seem to me to have a vicious bone in his body. Lol

    Truth.

    • #151
    • January 23, 2017 at 8:22 pm
  2. Profile photo of MHillis Member

    I’m still a bit dizzy from the intellectual whiplash that generally accompanies any conversation between Jay and Mona (ricochet portmanteau “Monjay, ”?) and VDH. Trump’s authoritarian tendencies, pathologic narcissism, petty vindictiveness, aggressive ignorance on policy, and incomprehension of conservatism must place him outside the bounds of support. And yet, when left with the choice of Hillary Clinton, clearly he is the lesser of two evils.

    How can people with whom I consistently agree come down on irreconcilably different sides of this argument? My tentative explanation is thus. With Donald Trump, we have a man who presents such a diverse array of positions and attitudes, that any attempt to draw a coherent worldview requires a selective sampling of the data. Is Donald Trump a blunt, bombastic, man of the people who is fairly conservative, or at least anti-liberal? You can find dozens of quotes and clips. Prefer to see Trump as an authoritarian? Plenty of evidence. A buffoonish carnival barker? Well documented. Given all this, it’s probably unavoidable that people of good will and similar philosophical outlooks will come to varying conclusions by emphasizing certain aspects of the man while minimizing others.

    So, maybe it’s time to simply take a “time out” and admit that we just don’t know.

    Any politician that can bring VDH and Mona Charen to diametrically opposed views is good for thought-provoking podcasts, at least.

    • #152
    • January 23, 2017 at 11:38 pm
  3. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Can someone please explain to me why this podcast was posted under Need to Know AND The Ricochet Podcast?

    I’ve just now tripped upon these comments – recognizing a few, most of them new, and my comments nowhere to be found.

    Because I was over at NTK (where I NEVER am) while all the cool kids were hanging out here.

    Typical.

    • #153
    • January 24, 2017 at 12:52 am
  4. Profile photo of Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, … Inactive

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Can someone please explain to me why this podcast was posted under Need to Know AND The Ricochet Podcast?

    I’ve just now tripped upon these comments – recognizing a few, most of them new, and my comments nowhere to be found.

    Because I was over at NTK (where I NEVER am) while all the cool kids were hanging out here.

    Typical.

    A podcast’s got to know its limitations.

    • #154
    • January 24, 2017 at 6:13 am
  5. Profile photo of Blue Yeti Admin

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Can someone please explain to me why this podcast was posted under Need to Know AND The Ricochet Podcast?

    I’ve just now tripped upon these comments – recognizing a few, most of them new, and my comments nowhere to be found.

    Because I was over at NTK (where I NEVER am) while all the cool kids were hanging out here.

    Typical.

    It was a combined show and many NTK listeners are not subscribed to the Ricochet Podcast. It’s also why Mona read the Zip Recruiter spot.

    • #155
    • January 24, 2017 at 8:35 am
  6. Profile photo of Karl Nittinger Coolidge

    Patrick McClure (View Comment):

    Karl Nittinger (View Comment):
    There are actually people in this comment thread proposing that there be a code of conduct for commentators on podcasts because the opinions expressed by some commentators on the podcasts are in opposition to their own? Is this The Onion or something? That was really just parody, right? I mean, right?

    I missed seeing that request. Care to point to the comment where the member asked for the special code of conduct for commenters?

    That’s because a request for a special code of conduct for commentators wasn’t made. There were multiple direct implications that the existing code of conduct should somehow apply to commentators on podcasts (simply because particular commentators dare to have a negative viewpoint towards Donald Trump)…ludicrous.

    • #156
    • January 24, 2017 at 8:55 am
  7. Profile photo of Kozak Coolidge

    MHillis (View Comment):
    So, maybe it’s time to simply take a “time out” and admit that we just don’t know.

    How about we sit back, stop biting his ankles and give him a chance to show us what he’s going to do.

    So far between the cabinet appointments, his meetings with business and labor, and the EO’s I’m pretty satisfied.

    • #157
    • January 24, 2017 at 10:31 am
  8. Profile photo of Patrick McClure Member

    Karl Nittinger (View Comment):

    Patrick McClure (View Comment):

    Karl Nittinger (View Comment):
    There are actually people in this comment thread proposing that there be a code of conduct for commentators on podcasts because the opinions expressed by some commentators on the podcasts are in opposition to their own? Is this The Onion or something? That was really just parody, right? I mean, right?

    I missed seeing that request. Care to point to the comment where the member asked for the special code of conduct for commenters?

    That’s because a request for a special code of conduct for commentators wasn’t made. There were multiple direct implications that the existing code of conduct should somehow apply to commentators on podcasts (simply because particular commentators dare to have a negative viewpoint towards Donald Trump)…ludicrous.

    Nice parsing. So here’s one back at you. If there is “a code of conduct for commentators on podcasts” that does not apply to members in the posts, doesn’t that make it a special code of conduct? Or would singular code of conduct be good? Tell me, what is your descriptor?

    Or ignoring all of that, where in the comments did someone ask for “a code of conduct for commentators on podcasts”? Other than wondering if the general CoC applied.

    Edited because I hit the enter button accidently before I was done.

    • #158
    • January 24, 2017 at 10:58 am
  9. Profile photo of La Tapada Member

    Nancy Spalding (View Comment):
    I had to quit listening to “need to know” (which I had loved) because of the gratuitous anti-Trump vitriole, and here I am 10 minutes in and tempted to throw my iPad at the wall… President Trump was my 17th choice, and he is what we have– and his cabinet choices are excellent, and he may be able to get something done. I am glad that they (Mona & Jay) are not affected by the cultural & economic destruction with which we are surrounded, and can stand above the fray, but many of us do not have that option.

    Meanwhile, VDH is great, Peter is trying to keep things smooth, and James Lileks is amazing at keeping things balanced. I may be able to finish listening…

    I had the same reaction to Jay and Mona.

    • #159
    • January 24, 2017 at 11:00 am
  10. Profile photo of billy Inactive

    Concretevol (View Comment):

    Did I Make 6 Comments or Only 5 (View Comment):
    However, Jay’s behavior is beyond the pale. It would be one thing for Jay to thus attack Trump while being charitable to his supporters as misguided. But he is equally vicious to Trump’s supporters, even very reluctant supporters. He even lashed out at James, who is to a great extent on the same side (James is evidently insufficiently uncivil).

    Dude, to use the word “vicious” to describe Jay Nordlinger is pretty laughable. He doesn’t seem to me to have a vicious bone in his body. Lol

    In comment #35, I referred to Jay and “his fellow anti-Trumpers… rioting and burning on the streets of our nation’s capitol,” which some have taken offense to. I just had the image of Nordlinger rampaging down J street, smashing windows, flipping cars, and lighting fires in full Anarchist regalia.

    Then he returns home to his study, dons his comfortable slippers, sipping a sherry (Amontillado certainly), with a Bach sonata playing, as he composes his next philippic against Trumpism

    • #160
    • January 24, 2017 at 11:42 am
  11. Profile photo of Petty Boozswha Member

    Dude, to use the word “vicious” to describe Jay Nordlinger is pretty laughable.

    I don’t know, you’ve never seen Gangsta Jay and his side-girl Mona.

    • #161
    • January 24, 2017 at 11:51 am
  12. Profile photo of Franco Inactive

    Petty Boozswha (View Comment):
    Dude, to use the word “vicious” to describe Jay Nordlinger is pretty laughable.

    I don’t know, you’ve never seen Gangsta Jay and his side-hoe Mona.

    You never know who’s really vicious until they come into power. Like this guy:

    • #162
    • January 24, 2017 at 12:16 pm
  13. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Due to the intelligence of all these comments I am relistening to the podcast.

    One particular part jumped out at me: around 34:03 when VDH is trying to explain Trump’s negotiating style; go big, then back off but get what you want. (we won’t deport everyone, how about the 2,000,000 felons.)

    James: What does it do long term to the political climate if we become accustomed to people saying extreme outragous things?

    VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?

    And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 9-11 in the streets. How about that?”

    You know why I think this is worth pointing out? Because thousands and thousands of Muslims DID celebrate in the streets. I would go so far as to estimate hundreds of thousands. But not here – in the countries from which we are allowing refugees and immigrants.

    Were I VDH I wouldn’t have responded with examples of how Obama was similarly over the top. But I’m not VDH … more’s the pity.

    Fantastic podcast.

    Edit: Corrected 7-11 to 9-11.

    • #163
    • January 24, 2017 at 2:12 pm
  14. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Just got to the end of Mona’s monologue for the second time. I’ve made some similar comments on the comment thread of the NTK podcast.

    I think Mona threw up some real straw men. I’ve never heard “zero sum gain” from Trump. I’ve never heard him say that Washington DC thrived BECAUSE others were suffering – although frankly that argument can be made as all those regulators and lobbiests are making laws and rules that punish others and those regulators and lobbiests are getting paid very well. But it’s certainly not a direct transfer of wealth.

    Mona just doesn’t like Trump and interprets everything Trump has said in the worst possible light (and she might be right; we’ll see) . But this has been one of the most infuriating qualities of this election season: opinions and predictions stated as fact with a sneering tone that we’re all idiots to not agree. (Irony: we all who would have walked over broken glass to keep HRC from the White House knew damn well what she is capable of because she’d actually DONE them)

    VDH hinted but I’ll say it: all politicians lie. Mona prefers her liars to have some more polish and be one of “her people”.

    • #164
    • January 24, 2017 at 3:29 pm
  15. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    And one last comment; Jay’s concerns about not being able to be honest and speak his mind as a journalist.

    I wasn’t clear on what has happened and why he thinks that is now the case with a Trump presidency?

    Peter went on in great length agreeing with Jay with the constant qualifier of “if … if … if”.

    Of course no one wants to live in a world where freedom of speech has been curtailed (and God knows we all have examples of how that has, in fact, happened in the past 8 years) Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.

    Trump has been very rough on the press these past couple of days but in all cases it’s been deserved. Let’s wait and see how he handles a press corps that hasn’t destroyed its own credibility.

    • #165
    • January 24, 2017 at 3:48 pm
  16. Profile photo of Blue Yeti Admin

    Annefy (View Comment):
    ]VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?

    And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 7-11 in the streets. How about that?”

    Fantastic podcast.

    Muslims love Slurpees! So what?

    • #166
    • January 24, 2017 at 3:56 pm
  17. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    ]VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?

    And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 7-11 in the streets. How about that?”

    Fantastic podcast.

    Muslims love Slurpees! So what?

    So kind of you to point out my typo. My gratitude knows no bounds.

    • #167
    • January 24, 2017 at 4:04 pm
  18. Profile photo of Blue Yeti Admin

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Blue Yeti (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    ]VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?

    And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 7-11 in the streets. How about that?”

    Fantastic podcast.

    Muslims love Slurpees! So what?

    So kind of you to point out my typo. My gratitude knows no bounds.

    I was kidding. Gotta keep our sense of humor. Now more than ever.

    • #168
    • January 24, 2017 at 4:08 pm
  19. Profile photo of Bryan G. Stephens Reagan

    Annefy (View Comment):
    And one last comment; Jay’s concerns about not being able to be honest and speak his mind as a journalist.

    I wager if Jay walked in the streets of New York in a pro Clinton hat or an anti-Trump hat, he would be safer than walking in a Pro-Trump hat.

    • #169
    • January 24, 2017 at 4:10 pm
  20. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    And one last comment; Jay’s concerns about not being able to be honest and speak his mind as a journalist.

    I wager if Jay walked in the streets of New York in a pro Clinton hat or an anti-Trump hat, he would be safer than walking in a Pro-Trump hat.

    Agreed. Jay (and others; it’s not unique to him) seem to believe that they are they only ones having bad experiences. Hah!

    • #170
    • January 24, 2017 at 4:14 pm
  21. Profile photo of Tony Sells Member

    Annefy (View Comment):
    Due to the intelligence of all these comments I am relistening to the podcast.

    One particular part jumped out at me: around 34:03 when VDH is trying to explain Trump’s negotiating style; go big, then back off but get what you want. (we won’t deport everyone, how about the 2,000,000 felons.)

    James: What does it do long term to the political climate if we become accustomed to people saying extreme outragous things?

    VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?

    And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 9-11 in the streets. How about that?”

    You know why I think this is worth pointing out? Because thousands and thousands of Muslims DID celebrate in the streets. I would go so far as to estimate hundreds of thousands. But not here – in the countries from which we are allowing refugees and immigrants.

    Were I VDH I wouldn’t have responded with examples of how Obama was similarly over the top. But I’m not VDH … more’s the pity.

    Fantastic podcast.

    Edit: Corrected 7-11 to 9-11.

    I think what Mona was referencing was when Trump said he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey. Mona didn’t say New Jersey, but I’m sure that’s what she meant since we have all seen the video of the Muslims celebrating on 9/11 in Palestine.

    • #171
    • January 24, 2017 at 5:30 pm
  22. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Tony Sells (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):
    -snip

    One particular part jumped out at me: around 34:03 when VDH is trying to explain Trump’s negotiating style; go big, then back off but get what you want. (we won’t deport everyone, how about the 2,000,000 felons.)

    James: What does it do long term to the political climate if we become accustomed to people saying extreme outragous things?

    VDH: Like What? Can I give you an example?

    And Mona jumped in: “like thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated 9-11 in the streets. How about that?”

    You know why I think this is worth pointing out? Because thousands and thousands of Muslims DID celebrate in the streets. I would go so far as to estimate hundreds of thousands. But not here – in the countries from which we are allowing refugees and immigrants.

    Were I VDH I wouldn’t have responded with examples of how Obama was similarly over the top. But I’m not VDH … more’s the pity

    -snip

    I think what Mona was referencing was when Trump said he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey. Mona didn’t say New Jersey, but I’m sure that’s what she meant since we have all seen the video of the Muslims celebrating on 9/11 in Palestine.

    Agreed. I knew what Mona was talking about . On the 2nd hearing it struck me there was a point to be made about immigration.

    • #172
    • January 24, 2017 at 5:52 pm
  23. Profile photo of BD1 Member
    BD1

    Jay Nordlinger is ranting endlessly against Trump on Twitter. At least the rest of the staff at NR is giving it a rest.

    • #173
    • January 24, 2017 at 7:00 pm
  24. Profile photo of ToryWarWriter Member

    Of course no one wants to live in a world where freedom of speech has been curtailed (and God knows we all have examples of how that has, in fact, happened in the past 8 years) Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.

    Given I live in a country where freedom of speech is curtailed I can say it *blank*.

    • #174
    • January 24, 2017 at 7:39 pm
  25. Profile photo of Umbra Fractus Coolidge

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):
    Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.

    Probably because of the death threats.

    • #175
    • January 24, 2017 at 9:44 pm
  26. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):
    Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.

    Probably because of the death threats.

    My impression has been those on both sides have suffered threats. Maybe it’s a dangerous time for all (I don’t believe that) but Jay singled out criticizing Trump as being dangerous (not sure he used that word)

    Was he implying that the Trump administration is to be feared?

    • #176
    • January 24, 2017 at 10:38 pm
  27. Profile photo of Annefy Member

    BD1 (View Comment):
    Jay Nordlinger is ranting endlessly against Trump on Twitter. At least the rest of the staff at NR is giving it a rest.

    Just scanned his Twitter feed. My suspicions about him have been confirmed. No need to re listen to podcasts to figure him out.

    • #177
    • January 24, 2017 at 10:53 pm
  28. Profile photo of Patrick McClure Member

    Maybe Jay is positioning himself for the “acceptable conservative” seat at the New York Times when David Brooks retires.

    • #178
    • January 25, 2017 at 5:22 am
  29. Profile photo of Petty Boozswha Member

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Umbra Fractus (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):
    Jay never explained why, all of a sudden, he and his peers are suddenly so worried.

    Probably because of the death threats.

    My impression has been those on both sides have suffered threats. Maybe it’s a dangerous time for all (I don’t believe that) but Jay singled out criticizing Trump as being dangerous (not sure he used that word)

    Was he implying that the Trump administration is to be feared?

    I think Jay has never learned the rule “don’t feed the trolls.” I’m pretty sure he’s infuriated at the alt-right nerds that flood his inbox and they are ecstatic that they can still get such a rise out of him.

    • #179
    • January 25, 2017 at 5:33 am
  30. Profile photo of Gojira's Hejira Member

    Jay’s pretty snippy. I recall checking out his podcast early on but it didn’t grab me. I come here for good nature, humor, wit and a little clever snark, no matter the opinion or disagreement. That dude’s shoes are too tight. No room for that at Ricochet.

    Still better than Ann Coulter.

    • #180
    • January 25, 2017 at 11:17 am
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