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There are 23 comments.

  1. Dave Sussman Contributor

    Maybe it’s simply because it wasn’t a repeal. Most conservatives are not disappointed because it died, but because it was considered in Ryan’s short sighted way. What a mess.

    • #1
    • March 24, 2017, at 5:25 PM PST
    • 6 likes
  2. Aaron Miller Member

    Great conversation, thanks.

    Calling for “repeal” of Obamacare probably seemed like a safe white lie when they expected Clinton to win the election… which they apparently did expect because otherwise there would have been one if not multiple “replace” plans immediately ready. Had they been working on such drafts — in the open — before this year, much of the current debates would have already been addressed.

    After President Trump was sworn in, it was reported that Republicans planned to propose something by late summer. Then this bill was sprung on everyone by surprise and a vote was scheduled without even a couple weeks for study and debate.

    I liked Ryan for Speaker largely because I thought him a good bridge between the Tea Party upstarts and McConnell’s group who, as Rahe would say, only attempt to manage America’s decline. Ryan is principled and wonkish both. But this was a stunning episode.

    • #2
    • March 24, 2017, at 7:32 PM PST
    • 4 likes
  3. Quake Voter Inactive

    What lesson do you think Trump takes from this: That DJT is a loser? or that Congressional Republicans are losers?

    We can hope for renewed due diligence and committee-by-committee consensus building over a nine-month timeline, but how realistic is that?

    Repeal of Obamacare was the starkest partisan issue … we thought. GOP solidarity and unanimous Democratic opposition. And the GOP acted like a junior prom committee.

    Now we move on to tax reform, infrastructure spending and trade issues where the lines get blurred and the Trump/GOP solidarity is pretty iffy.

    I think we just witnessed the center of gravity in the House move 30-40 seats to the left at just the wrong possible moment.

    • #3
    • March 24, 2017, at 11:39 PM PST
    • Like
  4. Doctor Robert Member

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    I think we just witnessed the center of gravity in the House move 30-40 seats to the left at just the wrong possible moment.

    I don’t know. The right wing Freedom caucus has done admirably by preventing a half-baked bill that does not repeal O-care, from becoming law.

    Now is the time for DJT and Mr Ryan to show their stones. Introduce a new bill, one that starts with the words “The ACA of (such and such a date) is hereby repealed effective January 1, 2018”. Follow this with a brief outline of how the Gummint will provide health insurance to all otherwise uninsured legal residents of this nation, and go from there. It actually should not be hard to do this; our too-brief renegade Senator, Scott Brown, did it on one page.

    • #4
    • March 25, 2017, at 3:33 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  5. DocJay Inactive

    I can’t listen, stupid phone issue. Did Roy advise burning it all down or rearranging deck chairs based on his extensive knowledge of the deck?

    • #5
    • March 25, 2017, at 7:01 AM PST
    • Like
  6. Mr. Conservative Inactive

    There’s no icon to click on. How do I access this to listen? What am I missing?

    • #6
    • March 25, 2017, at 7:23 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  7. oleneo65 Coolidge

    Mr. Conservative (View Comment):
    There’s no icon to click on. How do I access this to listen? What am I missing?

    Presume you are signed in to the site as a Ricochet member. If so above and to the left of the podcast’s title – Premium Podcast: In Conversation Special Podcast: Peter Robinson and Avik Roy on The AHCA Aftermath you should see a right pointing arrow. Click on that arrow to play podcast.

    Hope this helps!

    • #7
    • March 25, 2017, at 8:08 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  8. DocJay Inactive

    That was an outstanding talk and amazing analysis.

    • #8
    • March 25, 2017, at 8:35 AM PST
    • 3 likes
  9. Mr. Conservative Inactive

    @oleneo65, BAM! Thanks so much. This is why I like ricochet. So many kind and helpful people who make an effort not to make me look stupid (not an easy task?). I guess I was looking for the typical line with the arrow at the right to click on. You know, “old dog new tricks” and all. God bless you my friend.

    • #9
    • March 25, 2017, at 8:36 AM PST
    • 1 like
  10. DocJay Inactive

    I hear the sobering realities of this issue from Roy on one hand. On the other hand I feel the suffering of our population. The hearts and souls of those who care for patients are being eroded. Obamacare accelerated the destruction of who I consider the best group of people our country has to offer, health care workers with compassion.

    The longer all this goes on the worse it gets. My patients , the middle class and poor ones are in trouble and it rips me apart some days. Sometimes I feel like Janis Joplin sans heroin,”come on come on come on , and take it, take another little piece of my heart now baby”.

    • #10
    • March 25, 2017, at 8:48 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  11. Mr. Conservative Inactive

    Excellent analysis but I have a more optimistic take. I would rather have no bill than a terrible bill. Like Bill Kristol said (quoted by Avik), there’s no reason the bill cannot be fixed and reintroduced. What do we know about Trump and Ryan? They are smart men that have not made it this far without an ability to learn from their mistakes and make adjustments. Maybe they needed some humbling. No doubt this is a debacle; so was Pearl Harbor, and the Alamo, and Dunkirk. Losses there led to better results later. Post tenebras, lux. Let not your heart be troubled, my friend. We’ll get there; it was never going to be easy.

    • #11
    • March 25, 2017, at 9:05 AM PST
    • 2 likes
  12. Quake Voter Inactive

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    I think we just witnessed the center of gravity in the House move 30-40 seats to the left at just the wrong possible moment.

    I don’t know. The right wing Freedom caucus has done admirably by preventing a half-baked bill that does not repeal O-care, from becoming law.

    Now is the time for DJT and Mr Ryan to show their stones. Introduce a new bill, one that starts with the words “The ACA of (such and such a date) is hereby repealed effective January 1, 2018”. Follow this with a brief outline of how the Gummint will provide health insurance to all otherwise uninsured legal residents of this nation, and go from there. It actually should not be hard to do this; our too-brief renegade Senator, Scott Brown, did it on one page.

    Hope you’re right @doctorrobert, but suspect you cannot be in our present politics. Not for nothing that Mr. Brown’s career was too-brief in both Massachusetts and its putatively live-free-or-die neighbor, right? It’s also not for nothing that the GOP chairman of the Appropriations Committee managed within one week to pronounce Trump’s budget cuts dead on arrival and Ryan’s restructuring of Medicaid cruel and heartless.

    By the end of next fiscal year, more than 70% of all maternity expenses in red states like Arkansas and Mississippi will be covered by Medicaid. This is not a one-pager and isn’t easy once you accept that the “Gummint will provide health insurance to all otherwise uninsured legal residents of this nation.”

    Will the Freedom Caucus take the same approach to tax reform? Will refundable tax credits to middle income families be labelled a new entitlement?

    On infrastructure, will the Freedom Caucus bargain to keep the focus on tax credits and matching funds rather than backfills for state boondoggles? Or will they simply oppose any spending with the national debt soon to pass the $20 trillion mark. Maybe they will threaten a shutdown in October rather than support a new debt limit.

    Trump is far more likely to find the votes he needs for the rest of his agenda from the 50 votes found to the left of Chairman Frelinghuysen (cr Liberty Score: 29%). Forty of those votes will come from Mr. Schumer’s party and they won’t come cheap. Mr. Schumer may offer no fewer than 100 on infrastructure, trade and immigration reform. His price for cooperation on the rest of Trump’s agenda may include support for center-leftish remodeling of the ACA.

    Yesterday, I am afraid, we saw the end of the too-brief center-right administration of Donald Trump. Anyone who thinks that a liberty party Trump is going to follow is deluding themselves.

    • #12
    • March 25, 2017, at 9:07 AM PST
    • Like
  13. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Quake, I think you are missing something. The democrats have an ongoing Trump hatefest. Their base views him as SatanHitlerVoldemort!!!!!!! and agreeing with him as raping the country. I don’t think Trump is going to tack to the left, because the left hates him too much.

    I think he’s going to be looking at Freedom Caucus members and demanding their plan. Put up or shut up.

    But if you want to despair, go ahead. Just spare us the Jeremiad.

    • #13
    • March 25, 2017, at 10:55 AM PST
    • 1 like
  14. Aaron Miller Member

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    Maybe they will threaten a shutdown in October rather than support a new debt limit.

    One can hope. Start finding the money in the budgets of oversized or totally unnecessary programs and agencies. Focus on cutting expenditures, like any voter must, rather than stealing from future generations.

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    Trump is far more likely to find the votes he needs for the rest of his agenda from the 50 votes found to the left of Chairman Frelinghuysen (cr Liberty Score: 29%). Forty of those votes will come from Mr. Schumer’s party and they won’t come cheap. Mr. Schumer may offer no fewer than 100 on infrastructure, trade and immigration reform. His price for cooperation on the rest of Trump’s agenda may include support for center-leftish remodeling of the ACA

    I said many times before that this is the danger of a non-ideological president. He might indeed choose to side with Democrats on some issues. But whether or not there is cooperation with Democrats on healthcare will depend more on Ryan than Trump.

    • #14
    • March 25, 2017, at 10:58 AM PST
    • 1 like
  15. Quake Voter Inactive

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    I think he’s going to be looking at Freedom Caucus members and demanding their plan. Put up or shut up.

    But if you want to despair, go ahead. Just spare us the Jeremiad.

    I have to choose my pessimism over your panglossian take, Omega. On some issues, particularly immigration enforcement, energy production, federal regulation, and court appointments, Trump will battle the left and we’ll see genuine conservative victories.

    However, yesterday probably changed Trump’s mental math on the whole set of upcoming issues. It wouldn’t have changed Walker’s or Cruz’s, but not even Dr. Pangloss would confuse Trump’s commitment to conservatism with theirs.

    Trump saw something yesterday: The GOP is not a coherent, effective Congressional outfit. They fight … themselves. No serious conservative party could have a Rodney Frelinghuysen as Chairman of the Appropriations Committee.

    Trump will have to make his own Congressional coalitions from here out on trade, taxes, debt limits, and infrastructure. That coalition will move 40 seats left, will solidly include clowns like Frelinghuysen and Democratic votes and exclude Freedom Caucus members with great ideas and utter lack of coalition-building savvy.

    Sorry to be pessimistic, but we just left a $1 trillion dollar tax cut retroactive to January on the table, and are now proceeding into a reconciliation tax plan which must be revenue neutral, and balances its cuts with another Ryan boy genius gimmick: the border adjustment tax. Then we move on to an infrastructure plan which will be crafted with Chuck Schumer if Freedom Caucus votes are withheld.

    My jeremiads were reserved for Hillary’s election. We can live with this, playing around the fifty yard line for eight years and scoring a few touchdowns in SCOTUS and the oil and gas fields.

    Better than goal-line defense for eight years.

    • #15
    • March 25, 2017, at 1:50 PM PST
    • 1 like
  16. rgbact Member

    Quake Voter (View Comment):That coalition will move 40 seats left, will solidly include clowns like Frelinghuysen and Democratic votes and exclude Freedom Caucus members with great ideas and utter lack of coalition-building savvy.

    Its why many of us supported Hillary. The Freedom Coocoos will make sure we get ZERO done on ACA…..and the Trump coalition with the likes of Frelinghausen, will easily pass lots of budget busting spending boondoggles. We’re screwed.

    • #16
    • March 26, 2017, at 4:01 AM PST
    • Like
  17. Lois Lane Coolidge

    Quake Voter (View Comment):
    panglossian

    As I find politics so disheartening lately–since the Republican primaries really–I feel myself focusing on the new words I can take from any debate. Panglossian. Perhaps I’m the only one who had to whip out the dictionary and see what it meant, but that’s a beauty. Happy to learn it.

    • #17
    • March 26, 2017, at 6:52 AM PST
    • 1 like
  18. DocJay Inactive

    rgbact (View Comment):

    Quake Voter (View Comment):That coalition will move 40 seats left, will solidly include clowns like Frelinghuysen and Democratic votes and exclude Freedom Caucus members with great ideas and utter lack of coalition-building savvy.

    Its why many of us supported Hillary. The Freedom Coocoos will make sure we get ZERO done on ACA…..and the Trump coalition with the likes of Frelinghausen, will easily pass lots of budget busting spending boondoggles. We’re screwed.

    Many of Us? Supported Hillgjazi? Us what ???????? Who is this us.

    • #18
    • March 26, 2017, at 9:36 AM PST
    • Like
  19. rgbact Member

    DocJay (View Comment):

    rgbact (View Comment):

     

    Its why many of us supported Hillary. The Freedom Coocoos will make sure we get ZERO done on ACA…..and the Trump coalition with the likes of Frelinghausen, will easily pass lots of budget busting spending boondoggles. We’re screwed.

    Many of Us? Supported Hillgjazi? Us what ???????? Who is this us.

    Us NeverTrumpers. About the only plus for having Trump over Hillary was him signing ACA repeal stuff. And now thats toast. Hence, I don’t see much good stuff ahead for conservatives.

    • #19
    • March 26, 2017, at 12:57 PM PST
    • Like
  20. Viruscop Member

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):
    Quake, I think you are missing something. The democrats have an ongoing Trump hatefest. Their base views him as SatanHitlerVoldemort!!!!!!! and agreeing with him as raping the country. I don’t think Trump is going to tack to the left, because the left hates him too much.

    I think he’s going to be looking at Freedom Caucus members and demanding their plan. Put up or shut up.

    But if you want to despair, go ahead. Just spare us the Jeremiad.

    If he wants our help, he is going to have to beg.

    If this whole healthcare dumpster fire has shown us anything, it is that Trump doesn’t have any of the skills that his Russian PR team says he has. He was bad at negotiating and development when he actually participated in real estate in the 90’s, and the only reason he managed to remain a billionaire was due to him placing his name on other people’s architecture.

    He didn’t work 10% as hard as Obama did to pass major healthcare legislation, nor is he capable of doing so. After all, Spicer said that Trump, “…left everything on the field…”

    So why should we fear him? He can lick our boots. Besides, once the FBI proves that he and his family are Russian agents, they are going to be made into some form of fertilizer, and we can hand over his businesses to the NAACP and CAIR.

    • #20
    • March 26, 2017, at 2:39 PM PST
    • Like
  21. DocJay Inactive

    rgbact (View Comment):

    DocJay (View Comment):

    rgbact (View Comment):

    Its why many of us supported Hillary. The Freedom Coocoos will make sure we get ZERO done on ACA…..and the Trump coalition with the likes of Frelinghausen, will easily pass lots of budget busting spending boondoggles. We’re screwed.

    Many of Us? Supported Hillgjazi? Us what ???????? Who is this us.

    Us NeverTrumpers. About the only plus for having Trump over Hillary was him signing ACA repeal stuff. And now thats toast. Hence, I don’t see much good stuff ahead for conservatives.

    Gorsuch much?

    • #21
    • March 26, 2017, at 8:18 PM PST
    • Like
  22. The Mononymous J.I.M. Member

    Why isn’t this in one of the main feeds? Adding yet another feed? Ugh.

    • #22
    • March 27, 2017, at 2:44 PM PST
    • Like
  23. Blue Yeti Admin

    bagodonuts (View Comment):
    Why isn’t this in one of the main feeds? Adding yet another feed? Ugh.

    We made it available as a special member’s only podcast. But it is on the Main Feed.

    • #23
    • March 28, 2017, at 10:03 AM PST
    • 1 like