That’s Humanity

Yep, it another run through the cultural landscape with your podcast pals Jonah Goldberg, Rob Long, and John Podhoretz. This week, the guys jog through a preview of The Dispatch, Jonah’s new media venture, sprint through some thoughts on The Joker (a movie the guy at Rob’s UPS store insists that he sees ASAP), and examine the various controversies it has spawned, and finally, a fast walk through why it’s just fine for Ellen Degeneres and George W. Bush to be friends.

 

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Totally agree. And how can any thinking person not think of Donald Trump as loathesome? That’s the part that confuses me. I may agree with some of the things he’s done, but as a human being, the man’s a dumpster fire.

    Now, I can see how Jonah might be correctly labeled disingenuous if — like Jay Nordlinger and Mona Charen during the last 12 months of Need To Know or like the folks at The Bulwark constantly— Jonah spent most of his time emphasizing Trump’s mistakes and de-emphasizing those of the Democrats.

    But Jonah doesn’t do that. Ever. In fact, I think his head might explode if he tried it. He is that true to his own principles.

    In short, Jonah is resolutely objective when it comes to Trump’s actions and policies.

    But how — how! — can we expect Jonah to just switch his critical faculties to the “off” position where Trump’s character is concerned? What do people expect him to do, go into denial mode? How can anybody do that with anybody?? I’m not sure such a thing is even possible … or advisable even if it is.

    Trump’s personal peccadillos and/or failings are arguably irrelevant when it comes to policy, governance, etc.  Yet when Jonah and others continue with the “loathsome” talk let alone the “mentally ill” talk, they open the door to characterizing Trump’s ACTIONS – including/especially those Jonah agrees with – the same way.

    • #61
  2. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Daniel Sterman (View Comment):
    Some of his actions have been good. Others have been counterproductive at best… and loathsome at worst. Abandoning the Kurds to be slaughtered is loathsome; setting precedents on Executive Orders for the next Democratic President to take full advantage of is counterproductive. Pressuring foreign governments to help him get reelected is loathsome; tariffs and withdrawing from the TPP are counterproductive. And so on.

    Abandoning the Kurds is complicated because so many of them belong to a Communist terrorist group. His Executive Orders orders actually don’t seem as bad as Obama’s and doesn’t seem anything worse than George W. Bush, pressuring foreign governments to expose corrupt politicians suits me just fine, I like the TPP but Hillary would have abandoned that as well.

    So far the actions are actually pretty good. Especially his domestic and judicial policy.

    As to whether or not he makes young people democratic for the next twenty years. No one has any idea about that. I also remember how no one thought he could win. I’ll take the victories that I can get.

    • #62
  3. filmklassik Inactive
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    Daniel Sterman (View Comment):

    Furthermore, I would not discount the importance of words. It’s his words that are turning two full generations Americans away from conservatism. Nothing Trump could possibly accomplish in four years would be worth the twenty straight years of Democratic presidents to come after him.

    Yep.  And that’s the likely consequence that so many GOP’ers refuse to even acknowledge, let alone reckon with.  They are in total denial about it.  They never even talk about it.  And that kind of short-sightedness will not lead to the end of the Republic in our lifetime, but it will lead to our becoming more and more “woke,” statist, and in most respects European-ized.

    • #63
  4. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Daniel Sterman (View Comment):

    Yep. And that’s the likely consequence that so many GOP’ers refuse to even acknowledge, let alone reckon with. They are in total denial about it. They never even talk about it. And that kind of short-sightedness will not lead to the end of the Republic in our lifetime, but it will lead to our becoming more and more “woke,” statist, and in most respects European-ized.

    Maybe it would help if “some people” concentrated more on the good actions and less on the “loathsome,” “mentally ill” person making them?  Jonah talks and writes a lot about how Western Civilization was basically just “talked up” from nothing, and the dangers of how it could be “talked down” again, but he seems completely oblivious to his own offenses in that area.

    It also reminds me of how people like George Carlin were talking up using drugs etc, then they seem surprised by one or more generations of addled dunderheads and then want to portray themselves as detached observers and act like THEY had nothing to do with it.

    Put another way, if Jonah says Trump abandoned the Kurds because he’s loathsome and mentally ill, he shouldn’t be surprised if his tax cuts, court nominees, and other things Jonah approves of are described the same way by the left.  And that’s a self-inflicted wound not by Trump, but by Jonah and others like him.

    • #64
  5. Daniel Sterman Inactive
    Daniel Sterman
    @DanielSterman

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Abandoning the Kurds is complicated because so many of them belong to a Communist terrorist group

    No, abandoning the Kurds is simple because so many of them are innocent people now being slaughtered by the Turkish army.

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Hillary would have abandoned that as well

    This is the single biggest problem with the pro-Trump side: you refuse to look at his actions objectively. You’re constantly comparing him to Hillary. Why not compare them to all of the other Republican candidates in 2016? Or all of the potential Republican candidates in 2020? Or to the ideal president we should strive towards, a standard we used to feel free to criticize presidents for not living up to, Republican or Democrat, but which it is for some reason no longer acceptable to do with Trump?

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    As to whether or not he makes young people democratic for the next twenty years. No one has any idea about that. I also remember how no one thought he could win.

    This is the same logic as, “I just won a million dollars in the lottery – I’d better spend it all on more lottery tickets!”

    • #65
  6. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Daniel Sterman (View Comment):
    It’s his words that are turning two full generations Americans away from conservatism. Nothing Trump could possibly accomplish in four years would be worth the twenty straight years of Democratic presidents to come after him.

    I’m constantly hearing that Trump isn’t conservative. So how could Trump be turnign peopel away from Conservatism.

     

    I don’t disagree that he may be turning people away from Republicanism (the party).  But that’s different.

    • #66
  7. Daniel Sterman Inactive
    Daniel Sterman
    @DanielSterman

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    I’m constantly hearing that Trump isn’t conservative. So how could Trump be turnign peopel away from Conservatism.

    Because the only people you’re hearing this from are those who remain true to the philosophy behind conservatism.

    When both the general left-wing media and the general pro-Trump right-wing media keep saying that Trump and his supporters are conservatives — when upwards of 90% of the people in the world are actively redefining the word “conservatism” as meaning “in support of Trump” — the entire brand, along with the philosophy that it used to represent, become tainted with his mercurial behavior, his racism, and his corruption.

    • #67
  8. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):
    I don’t disagree that he may be turning people away from Republicanism (the party). But that’s different.

    Are you sure that is his work and not the work of certain other people? One might even think of it as an act of love.

    • #68
  9. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Daniel Sterman (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Hillary would have abandoned that as well

    This is the single biggest problem with the pro-Trump side: you refuse to look at his actions objectively. You’re constantly comparing him to Hillary. Why not compare them to all of the other Republican candidates in 2016? Or all of the potential Republican candidates in 2020? Or to the ideal president we should strive towards, a standard we used to feel free to criticize presidents for not living up to, Republican or Democrat, but which it is for some reason no longer acceptable to do with Trump?

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    As to whether or not he makes young people democratic for the next twenty years. No one has any idea about that. I also remember how no one thought he could win.

    This is the same logic as, “I just won a million dollars in the lottery – I’d better spend it all on more lottery tickets!”

    Politicians aren’t objective. They are the least bad option available. I think there is more evidence that Trump is the least bad option. Interpretations may vary of course. 

    As for the Kurds, the Turks are bombing the Kurds of Syria because some of them are legitimately Communist terrorists. The Turks are sadly, very comfortable with going through women and children to get to them. Everyone is bad in this situation and there aren’t any good guys. Maybe the other Republican candidates would be better or maybe not. I’m not sure what to do. We do need to preserve the Kurds in Northern Iraq/Southern Syria but Trump seems to be doing that.   

    As for Trump winning is like a lottery ticket statement, I agree that Trump had immense luck with getting Hillary as an opponent but the guy has been too successful on too many Trumps for it to be just luck. 

     

    • #69
  10. Daniel Sterman Inactive
    Daniel Sterman
    @DanielSterman

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    As for Trump winning is like a lottery ticket statement, I agree that Trump had immense luck with getting Hillary as an opponent but the guy has been too successful on too many Trumps for it to be just luck.

    Even if I were to agree with this statement – which I don’t, because Trump has won exactly twice: against 15 jostling other candidates who were all too self-serving to consolidate for the good of the party, and against the second-most-unliked politician in the history of polling – this only helps you win one election: the presidential one in 2020.

    I spoke about the next twenty years of elections. The hundreds of senators and thousands of congressmen, the five presidential elections that will not involve Donald J. Trump. Even if Trump really does have some kind of magic immunity to political consequences, no other candidate does, and by following him in lockstep and refusing to criticize him the Republican party is following him into the abyss.

    There’s a 60%-30% advantage to Democrats among both Millennials and Generation Z – the most lopsided generation in history. In 2018 the Republican party was blessed with the most tilted Senate electoral map ever and threw that advantage away. For God’s sake, we have a Democratic senator in Alabama now! Do we need a literal flying pig to wake up to the fact that this man is destroying the Right?

    • #70
  11. WilliamDean Coolidge
    WilliamDean
    @WilliamDean

    Mr. Michael Garrett (View Comment):

    One more genre to remake with superheroes: 80’s John Hughes high school movies.

    Wasn’t that Smallville?

    • #71
  12. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    WilliamDean (View Comment):

    Mr. Michael Garrett (View Comment):

    One more genre to remake with superheroes: 80’s John Hughes high school movies.

    Wasn’t that Smallville?

    Not a movie.

    • #72
  13. WilliamDean Coolidge
    WilliamDean
    @WilliamDean

    kedavis (View Comment):

    WilliamDean (View Comment):

    Mr. Michael Garrett (View Comment):

    One more genre to remake with superheroes: 80’s John Hughes high school movies.

    Wasn’t that Smallville?

    Not a movie.

    Does it REALLY matter?

    • #73
  14. Jeff Hawkins Inactive
    Jeff Hawkins
    @JeffHawkins

    some of them should be more genre based

    like Suicide Squad is the most obvious late 60/early 70s “guys on a mission” property out there.  Dirty Dozen, Wild Geese, Devils Brigade.  Establish a singular threat, bring in a bunch of characters, make them interact and have people care, then kill a few of them

    For those who enjoy “deep cuts” on comics, look up Marvel Supervillain Team Up: Modok’s 11.  It would be a great throwaway non-franchise Marvel heist movie.

    • #74
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