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This week on the mighty GLoP Podcast, we’re properly social distancing by recording from Florida, Long Island, Manhattan (and Southern California if we’re being technical about it). We cover the au currant issue of the masks as the latest weapon in the Culture War (inspired by Jonah’s great G-File on this topic), what exactly a Quibi is and why you should care about it, and some thoughts (rumination?) on the legal issues of one General Flynn.
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That doesn’t sound rational to me. If a mask restricts the amount of wet droplets that a person wafts into the air, how could that not reduce the chance that a spreader is spreading virus? I know that my mask won’t prevent me from inhaling an aerosolized virus, but surely it stops me from expelling as many viruses into that same air via larger droplets.
Where is the masks are useless data? Hammer is making alot of proclamations without supporting evidence. Quite unusual for the guy.
Big of you not to mind. I hope you also don’t mind if I take your opinions with a big grain of salt.
Lets just all insult everybody without doing any research and post stuff on twitter. That’s what Ricochet is all about after all.
I’m happy to wear a mask in the grocery store (and I do), but I felt really insulted by those one-way floor decals. That’s control going too far. (I didn’t obey them.)
A caller to a local radio talk show said “The governor thinks we are obeying, but we are only cooperating.” I really identified with that. When I’m done cooperating, I’m done.
I’m in Korea, so I can’t get any, but what about using Fog X that you can buy for your car windshield?
Another one I’ve heard is to clean your glasses with Dawn, then wipe the Dawn off with a cloth.
The big deal for not fogging glasses, appears to be a mask with a shape-able piece over/above the nose. Cheap ones don’t have that, but better ones do. I’ve been seeing them advertised on TV lately, for those interested.
I found the Hammer person’s remarks to be patronizing and insulting.
The masks here have that nose piece, but it never seems to stop the ominous fog.
When I wear a mask — with the nose piece properly adjusted — my glasses don’t fog if I keep moving.
Jonah: “Sansa Stark in a mental institution, not understanding why she’s not in Westeros any more.”
This is basically the episode, “Normal Again”, from the sixth season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The doctors try to convince Buffy her memories of fighting vampires and demons are delusions, in the process permitting the writers to poke fun at the absurdity of the show’s storyline. (“One Slayer in all the world” — really!)
@ryanm (a.k.a. The Hammer) — When they told us surgical masks were useless, even dangerous, I knew the experts weren’t mistaken: they were lying.
Lying, of course, with the best of intent: to prevent a run on masks which might make them unavailable to medical personnel. Similarly, they have been exaggerating the side effects of hydroxychloroquine, while minimizing its potential benefits. (This is also a way to attack Trump, of course.)
So I ignored their bad advice and wore a mask from the start.
The most obvious benefit of wearing a mask is that it will capture a cough or sneeze; secondarily, it helps, if other people cough or sneeze globs of liquid into air you’re about to walk through.
The mask creates an air pocket containing your own exhalations. This is why the problem with glasses fogging up; but it also humidifies your nasal mucosa, especially when the air is dry, so that they do a better job of capturing and eventually eliminating the, I’m guessing, billions of virus particles, fungal spores, and bacteria you breathe in every day.
So many lies. Makes it hard to sort out the truth. I took hydroxychloroquine for 2 years for an auto immune condition. No side affects at all. I stopped taking it because it didn’t have any effect on my symptoms. It can help in some cases with auto immune and I very much suspect the same can be said for Covid.
I intend to try and make a cloth mask that doesn’t fog up glasses. Heck, maybe I will invent a good one and make my fortune ;)
Here’s Ted Gioia in City Journal in late March,
It’s no exaggeration to say that this drug changed my life—and in a dramatically positive way—after I was diagnosed with arthritis in my thirties. Today, I’m completely pain-free and symptom-free, and I no longer require medication of any sort. Yet here’s the strangest part of the story: none of my doctors wanted me to use hydroxychloroquine, the amazing drug that brought about these results. They viewed it as an old and outdated medicine. …
Of course, no drug is entirely without side effects—even hydroxychloroquine. I was especially concerned that some patients eventually had retinal problems after long-term use. But remember that I took this drug for around a decade—while Covid-19 patients may need it for only a few days. I can report that I never experienced any side effects from the drug, despite extended exposure.
But there’s even better news here. Because it’s no longer under patent, hydroxychloroquine is available as a low-cost generic drug, and is probably already on the shelves of many pharmacies (though patients will need a prescription). In addition, since it has been used for decades, the side effects and risks are well understood by the medical community. The main reason not to want people to take it now would be to reserve quantities for those who really need it.
Of course, because hydroxychloroquine is a generic drug, no one has a financial motive to promote it.
That’s the American spirit.
That is a big one right there.
I’d like to see any actual data on social distancing or mask wear. I have come across a couple of references at the University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy that don’t support mask wear. The response I usually get to pointing this out is a link to videos showing masks reducing forward ejecta, but you can clearly see it coming out the bottom top and sides (glasses fogging up demonstrate this). All the work I’ve seen referenced to social distancing doesn’t point to actual studies and data, but seem to instead argue that because other things work (quarantine of confirmed cases, isolation wards, etc.) that social distancing probably works too.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-not-back-cloth-masks-limit-covid-19-experts-say
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
It was nice that it was Rob interrupting John for a change.
The Steve Bannon layered look.
I didn’t say it couldn’t have any impact at all. But this supposes that the exhalations of asymptotic carriers in public places is an important mode of transmission, and most evidence says the opposite. It also is only appropriate if our goal is to eliminate the virus or even “slow the spread.” We know the first isn’t possible, and it seems the second is neither necessary nor advisable.
The second link contains these statements:
and
Surgical masks, not cloth masks. And yes, this surgical masks divert some of the exhaled air above and below the mask but they do filter some of it. There is little doubt that droplet transmission of SARS-CoV-2 happens either through inhalation or through contact with fomites and breaks in personal hygiene. There are more questions about aerosol transmission, though it probably does happen.
The actual wording from the paper indicates that the authors are still concerned about conserving PPE (the improper use of PPE, including improper fit is another thing that is more likely to happen in the wild than in healthcare settings with trained staff. Triage: keep a scarce resource (PPE) for people who need it more and are more likely to use it properly.)
In the best of all possible worlds (not the one we live in) there would be surgical and even N95 masks galore for all who want, and some benefit would accrue from the use of them by people who wear them right.
I’m over 65; my plan is to stay away from crowds and ration my N95 supply for when I can’t. This week’s project is a UVC lamp build; I calculate that five minutes per side of a mask should work.
Counterpoint (Not sure who to believe? Me neither.):
/https://accountingweekly.com/face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy-blaylock/
I am in the group that one of the guys couldn’t imagine – I want society opened up AND I oppose masks. My reasoning is that people who want to control other people’s lives (and/or who want to sell media clicks) have greatly exaggerated the risks associated with the Wuhan virus. They focus entirely on the worst case outcomes without putting those bad outcomes in the context of the low probability (even among the “high risk” populations) that such worst case outcomes will come about. And the cost of mask wearing is not trivial, particularly in the damage it does to social trust (at least in an American context).
But it’s so dashing!
The medical profession upped their game in PPE after HIV started coming out, especially the privacy afforded HIV patients (they didn’t have to tell you they had HIV).
But it was PPE to protect themselves.
Our arguments about masks are about protecting everyone else but yourself.
I was watching TV again tonight. The ones I saw advertised, if anyone wants to check them out, are called Clean Zone Masks. At what should be the obvious url/website.
I tried the Dawn thing. No good. Sigh. But I have my big plan to design a face mask that does not cause fogging. Just waiting to get some supplies from Lord Bezos ;) My hubby is an essential worker and his office has just mandated that face masks be worn.
The guys are the American equivalent of what Maggie Thatcher called “Tory wets”.
That is to say, to a large extent they’ve internalized their opponents’ ideas.
Thus we have them unironically discussing the progressive meme of “young black men railroaded into prison” (used by leftists to minimize the corrupt prosecution of Gen. Flynn).
Translated from Leftish, “railroaded” means “at long last justly sentenced after getting away with dozens or hundreds of felonies”.
Here’s a counter-meme: “It’s not 1955 any more.” Maybe in 1955 the justice system was racially biased, but the idea that 65 years of black mayors and black police chiefs and black Attorneys General and a black President had no impact is preposterous.
I thought the “lot’s of Confederate flags” claim had been sorta debunked. I have seen photos or the event and I think i saw 2 (two) in all the pics. Spurious comment by John. Careless at best, I think. If anyone has evidence of bunches of Confederate flags at the Michigan capital thing, please respond because if I am incorrect(the photos I saw may not have been representative or something) I would like to know… For now, taking the (somewhat hysterical) Governor’s word on the issue seems a bit iffy, at best.