There are 11 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Lois Lane Coolidge

    I agree with all of this. I am amazed at how character no longer matters. I am not virtue signaling when I say this. I will miss Paul Ryan quite a bit, and I still admire him immensely, as I think he did what the Trump people asked in part per his belief in the system, though they give him no credit for this at all.

    • #1
    • April 21, 2018, at 11:34 AM PDT
    • 2 likes
  2. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    Jonah is wrong. Paul Ryan is not too good for what the Republican Party has become.

    Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney are not too good for what the United States of America has become. We found that out in 2012. (Mitt Romney just came in second in an anti-Trump Utah Republican Convention to a doctor and lawyer which I guess “trumps” an MBA lawyer from Harvard.)

    Although I am very glad that Trump is president instead of Hillary Clinton, I think Dennis Miller is right that the country really broke in 2012. Maybe it will come back together, but one or even two Trump elections will not confirm that. Trump elections almost prove the opposite, more disunity.

    I was shocked on Election Night when Trump became the first Republican since 1984 and 1988 to win Ryan and Romney’s home states of Wisconsin and Michigan. I think you have to look at why certain common folk would not trust native politicians like Ryan and Romney in 2012. That speaks to something broken with the traditional Republican election consultants and not just pro-Trump mania.

    Regarding Steve Bannon’s claim that one should embrace the word racist, I do not know the context, but I would bring up something else that Dennis Miller (whose favorite magazine was always The Weekly Standard and probably closely followed National Review) said years ago:

    Racist is the new ‘doody head.’ It’s overused. Overplayed. It doesn’t zing as much as it used to because it’s used out the wazoo. And guess what? White Liberals are the people who throw it around the most… I think Black people sometimes look up at a racist and just shake their head and walk away and go ‘I know this tired story, I’m moving on…’ White Liberals are the ones who camp out on it like they’re champions of the world, and it’s getting a little tired.” – Dennis Miller

    Calling someone racist often seems to be the only weapon a Leftist has in the United States.

    I think most conservatives might remember the first time they were called racist. For me it was about 8 years ago when I mentioned that I was more concerned about the thousands of degrees of sudden and deadly rise in temperature from an Iran nuclear weapon than the supposed slow fractional degree temperature increase from global warming.

    I was told by a European from the Belgium-France area that this was the most racist thing that he had read in his entire life.

    What conservative hasn’t been called a racist? Including as you mention black conservatives like Herman Cain?

    Trump is criticized for both embracing and not embracing Roy Cohn?

    “It’s weird. You see these great players with these really long putters, because they can’t sink three-footers anymore. And, I hate it. I am a traditionalist. I have so many fabulous friends who happen to be gay, but I am a traditionalist.” — Donald Trump

    • #2
    • April 22, 2018, at 2:48 AM PDT
    • 4 likes
  3. Freesmith Inactive

    The lack of self-awareness of these two is comical.

    “I don’t know about you – we both grew up in NYC – I’ve never in my life ever said, ‘Well, as a white person I think…’ I never identified my identity as white,” says Goldberg to Kristol.

    I’m sure he didn’t identify as white, John Podhoretz either, as they sheltered in place in their apartment homes from the blacks and Hispanics who most definitely did see them that way and who prowled the streets and buses below, waiting to mug them again for their lunch money.

    No, not white, but I bet there is one three-letter word that Jonah and Bill and John did use, often too, to self-identify in those days on Manhattan’s West 80s.

    Funny that in a discussion about identity politics and tribalism it didn’t come to mind.

    No funnier, however, than that in a discussion of who “caused” Trump, neither Goldberg nor Kristol ever mentions our neocon misadventure in Iraq or our 16-years-and-counting fiasco of a stabilization campaign in Afghanistan, the longest war in US history and one that Kristol resolutely championed.

    To these risibly unself-aware deep thinkers about politics and principles, thousands dead and hundreds of billions wasted are just data entries, not reasons to reject a failed – and blind – elite and its policies.

    It’s far better to talk about Bannon, Hannity and de Tocqueville. Far better.

    • #3
    • April 22, 2018, at 9:31 AM PDT
    • 3 likes
  4. Freesmith Inactive

    @thecloakedgaijin

    There certainly is disunity. Clearly, however, policies which exacerbate disunity have been fostered by both political parties. What, after all, are the results of 50 years of Affirmative Action (formerly called “reverse discrimination”), multi-culturalism, diversity and massive, unceasing immigration besides a diminution of social trust and the growth of identity politics? BT (Before Trump), did standard-issue Republicans offer any dedicated and effective resistance to such divisive governmental priorities? No.

    But your example of Romney and Ryan, their failure in contrast to Trump to carry their own home states, is just as telling. Ask yourself this: What was Romney’s position on the Afghanistan War in 2012? What was his position on the wisdom of the Iraq War? Where did Ryan stand then and where does this paragon of responsible, movement conservatism stand today on both of those misadventures?

    Does the phrase “No more pointless wars in the Middle East” resonate with you? It sure does in Michigan and Wisconsin.

    The fact is that the GOP leadership, which includes Romney and Ryan, has never acknowledged its culpability for the ruinous, wasteful policies it promoted in that part of the world or vowed to change its disastrous ways. Most say nothing. Worse, many of the party’s leaders are gung-ho to do it again. They exemplify Einstein’s description of insanity.

    Remember how shocked and scandalized Conservatism, Inc. was when Trump criticized the Iraq War and insulted the Bush family during the 2016 South Carolina primary? “He’s gone too far now!” they exclaimed in unison. But who won in that traditionalist and military-heavy state? Not any of the movement conservatives whose thoughts about Iraq went no further then The Surge and who never offered a good reason for a second decade of fighting and dying in Afghanistan. It was Trump.

    Romney and Ryan are not too good for what the Republican Party has become. Like Goldberg and Kristol, Romney and Ryan have ceased to be in touch with the hopes and fears of flesh-and-blood American citizens, preferring abstractions and ideals to reality. Rather than act in advance to forestall preventable evils, they have either remained silent, offered distractions or concentrated on the evils of deficits, as if what is now the America they helped to create could ever agree to sacrifice for one another.

    • #4
    • April 22, 2018, at 10:28 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  5. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    I don’t particularly worry that much about white people voting together. I generally just want the more conservative candidate to win and want voters of all types to vote for that candidate.

    In 1988, Michael Dukakis won 10 states including such white states as…

    • Iowa 96.9% Non-Hispanic white
    • Minnesota 96.1% Non-Hispanic white
    • West Virginia 95.6% Non-Hispanic white
    • Wisconsin 93.6% Non-Hispanic white
    • Rhode Island 93.4% Non-Hispanic white
    • Oregon 93.3% Non-Hispanic white
    • Massachusetts 92.3% Non-Hispanic white
    • Washington 90.2% Non-Hispanic white
    • New York 75.0% Non-Hispanic white
    • Hawaii 31.1% Non-Hispanic white

    Was it scary when so many very white states voted for the Democrat candidate?

    (That would have been the narrative if Dukakis had been a Republican…)

    That year George H. W. Bush won the generally more diverse states of…

    • New Mexico 52.6% Non-Hispanic white
    • Mississippi 63.6% Non-Hispanic white
    • Texas 65.7% Non-Hispanic white
    • California 66.6% Non-Hispanic white
    • South Carolina 68.3% Non-Hispanic white
    • Georgia 71.6% Non-Hispanic white
    • Alabama 73.3% Non-Hispanic white
    • Maryland 73.9% Non-Hispanic white
    • Arizona 74.5% Non-Hispanic white

    Just about the biggest change between the 2012 and 2016 elections was among voters living around northeastern Iowa. The state of Iowa is apparently the only state not to have its population increase by at least 50% between 1900 and 2015. Trump won the state by 9.4 points while Romney lost the state by 5.8 points. That’s an over 15 point swing.

    Why exactly am I supposed to be sad that more people in the Great Lakes region and the North-northeast voted Republican in 2016?

    • #5
    • April 22, 2018, at 10:48 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  6. Freesmith Inactive

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    I don’t particularly worry that much about white people voting together. I generally just want the more conservative candidate to win and want voters of all types to vote for that candidate.

    When does the more conservative candidate ever win in non-white areas, unless the area is one-party Democratic? 

    In 1988, Michael Dukakis won 10 states including such white states as…

    Was it scary when so many very white states voted for the Democrat candidate?

    Really reaching, aren’t you? 1988 – the Democratic Party had not written off the white vote yet, had they? Thirty (30) years later, things have changed, my friend. Fifty-million-plus legal immigrants hadn’t settled in the US, in addition to 10-to-20 million more illegals.

    Here’s question for you to answer, which you won’t. Pete Wilson won the California gubernatorial election in 1994, just like Bush 41 won the 1988 Presidential election there – what state-wide office could a Pete Wilson Republican win today? How about Ronald Reagan? Why not?

    That year George H. W. Bush won the generally more diverse states of…

    • New Mexico 52.6% Non-Hispanic white NOW GONE
    • Mississippi 63.6% Non-Hispanic white NOW WHITE SUPPORT ONLY
    • Texas 65.7% Non-Hispanic white GOING (SEE HARRIS COUNTY)
    • California 66.6% Non-Hispanic White NOW GONE
    • South Carolina 68.3% Non-Hispanic white NOW WHITE SUPPORT ONLY
    • Georgia 71.6% Non-Hispanic White GOING
    • Alabama 73.3% Non-Hispanic white NOW WHITE SUPPORT ONLY
    • Maryland 73.9% Non-Hispanic White NOW GONE
    • Arizona 74.5% Non-Hispanic White GOING

    You say you want the more conservative candidates to win and by extension conservative policies enacted. But how exactly is that going to happen when our own political leaders don’t oppose reverse discrimination; when they do support diversity initiatives in government and in private business; when they allow “white” to become a pejorative in the classrooms of the United States of America; when they claim multi-culturalism doesn’t work, but vote to continue the massive, unending immigration that makes multi-culturalism (along with identity politics) inevitable; and when they chase after a mythical “Big Tent” that will never be?

    Forget about 1988. You, me and this country have been undergoing a demographic social experiment unprecedented in history. It’s time to break out of the laboratory.

    As the movie character famously said, “Come with me if you want to live.”

    • #6
    • April 22, 2018, at 4:38 PM PDT
    • Like
  7. filmklassik Member

    Freesmith (View Comment):

    No, not white, but I bet there is one three-letter word that Jonah and Bill and John did use, often too, to self-identify in those days on Manhattan’s West 80s.

    Funny that in a discussion about identity politics and tribalism it didn’t come to mind.

    If you knew anything about Jonah’s background (he’s only half Jewish, and not observant) you’d know the folly of those words. But quibbling about picayune things like facts when you’re clearly making a larger (and intellectually fatuous) point is a doomed mission. So on to identity politics…

    When Jonah says he never “self-identified as white” he meant there is no “white” way of looking at a particular issue or policy, and that it’s madness to suggest otherwise.

    Jonah believes there is no “white” view of government, taxation, crime, abortion, religion — no “white values,” in general, in other words — and it’s to his credit that he never felt an ideological kinship with the people whose skin tone most resembles his own. Why the hell would he?

    And getting back to the Jewish thing for a moment, do you honestly think there is a “Jewish lens” through which American Jews view the world? Do you honestly think most U.S. Jews share Jonah, John, and Bill’s views on Israel for example? Do you honestly think most U.S. Jews (a cohort that is 2/3rds progressive and overwhelmingly secular) feel any emotional connection to Israel whatsoever? (If only!)

    Do you honestly think U.S. Jews are monolithic in their outlook?

    • #7
    • April 22, 2018, at 8:09 PM PDT
    • Like
  8. Mikescapes Member

    Freesmith (View Comment):

    Freesmith (View Comment):

    The lack of self-awareness of these two is comical.

    No, not white, but I bet there is one three-letter word that Jonah and Bill and John did use, often too, to self-identify in those days on Manhattan’s West 80s.

    Jew is the word! And if they didn’t use it, think about it, worry about it, and identify with it, they’d be stupid. But they ain’t stupid. In fact, they are intellectuals – Jewish intellectuals. But not your ordinary, garden variety, brainy Jews found all over NYC. They were, and are, Conservative Jews, unlike the rest of Manhattan Jewry -West, East, up and down. So we’re talking a minority within a minority. 

    The point they were making is that they didn’t use their whiteness as a weapon. Who exactly could they hate on as white, conservative Jews? Other liberal Jews? Not very effective, especially if your looking for a nice Jewish girl.

    Jews, in case you hadn’t noticed, are not unfamiliar with discrimination. In fact, Jews are forever fighting the good fight for every oppressed racial underclass. See, they know something about slavery from their history. Liberal American Jews are so concerned with perceived wrongs against others, they don’t seem to give a flying f… about their own. Did you know that more than a few vehemently disapprove of Israel’s position vis a vis Palestine? Did you?

    The real identity politics is about fueling hate. Black v white, Latino v white, Muslim v everyone. And every white guy is privileged, so a hostile takeover is OK. So I think your criticism arises from a failure to understand what Goldberg and Kristol were discussing. Or, you did understand and jumped on the Jew ID to make them out to be tribalists like all the rest. 

    Either way, if not a target, you’re a suspect.

    • #8
    • April 23, 2018, at 2:45 PM PDT
    • Like
  9. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Jonah believes there is no “white” view of government, taxation, crime, abortion, religion — no “white values,” in general, in other words — and it’s to his credit that he never felt an ideological kinship with the people whose skin tone most resembles his own.

    White people have characteristics just as all people do.

    Asian people have characteristics too even though they represent about 58% of the world’s population.

    (White people are more likely to be ice hockey players and less likely to be lactose intolerant…)

    Apparently Professor Ricardo Duchesne has argued that individualism is a unique attribute of European peoples which has been exported at some degree to other nations.

    “white” view of government — may favor some type of democratic republic or at least constitutional monarchy more than the general world’s population. Others might just want a competent government or one where their relatives can have government jobs.

    “white” view of religion — probably nominally more Christian than the general world’s population, although that may be changing with secularism conquering the West while Christianity gains strength in places like Africa, China, and South Korea.

    “white” view of abortion — the places with the lowest abortion rate seems to be West-central Europe with the places with the abortion rates seems to be Eastern Europe which includes some of the most Christian countries (Romania, Poland, etc.) and some of the most secular places (Czech Republic, Estonia, and eastern Germany, etc.).

    • #9
    • April 24, 2018, at 5:20 AM PDT
    • Like
  10. filmklassik Member

    The Cloaked Gaijin (View Comment):

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    Jonah believes there is no “white” view of government, taxation, crime, abortion, religion — no “white values,” in general, in other words — and it’s to his credit that he never felt an ideological kinship with the people whose skin tone most resembles his own.

    White people have characteristics just as all people do.

    Asian people have characteristics too even though they represent about 58% of the world’s population.

    (White people are more likely to be ice hockey players and less likely to be lactose intolerant…)

    Apparently Professor Ricardo Duchesne has argued that individualism is a unique attribute of European peoples which has been exported at some degree to other nations.

    “white” view of government — may favor some type of democratic republic or at least constitutional monarchy more than the general world’s population. Others might just want a competent government or one where their relatives can have government jobs.

    “white” view of religion — probably nominally more Christian than the general world’s population, although that may be changing with secularism conquering the West while Christianity gains strength in places like Africa, China, and South Korea.

    “white” view of abortion — the places with the lowest abortion rate seems to be West-central Europe with the places with the abortion rates seems to be Eastern Europe which includes some of the most Christian countries (Romania, Poland, etc.) and some of the most secular places (Czech Republic, Estonia, and eastern Germany, etc.).

    Oh my God. Your response in no way speaks to your “point” — which was dubious to start with.

    Your final paragraph is particularly egregious. What are you saying there, exactly? That there’s a predominately “white” view of abortion? In a 70 percent white country that’s been effectively split down the middle on the issue for decades??

    • #10
    • April 24, 2018, at 11:32 AM PDT
    • Like
  11. Umbrasjg Inactive

    Bought it today on Amazon. Thanks Jonah!

    • #11
    • April 24, 2018, at 4:40 PM PDT
    • Like