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  1. Jim Wright Inactive
    Jim Wright
    @JimW

    A fine show, though the morosity was a few clicks shy of crushing.

     

    • #1
  2. Penfold Member
    Penfold
    @Penfold

    Maybe Trump’s Charlottesville comments weren’t targeted specifically at groups people thought they should be.  But were they really “awful”, “wrong”, “nonsensical”, “incoherent” and “bad”?  Or were they maybe just two or three out of these five?

    • #2
  3. JuliaBlaschke Coolidge
    JuliaBlaschke
    @JuliaBlaschke

    Penfold (View Comment):
    Maybe Trump’s Charlottesville comments weren’t targeted specifically at groups people thought they should be. But were they really “awful”, “wrong”, “nonsensical”, “incoherent” and “bad”? Or were they maybe just two or three out of these five?

    No all five.

    • #3
  4. filmklassik Member
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    Penfold (View Comment):
    Maybe Trump’s Charlottesville comments weren’t targeted specifically at groups people thought they should be. But were they really “awful”, “wrong”, “nonsensical”, “incoherent” and “bad”? Or were they maybe just two or three out of these five?

    Want just 3?  Maybe awful, wrong, and bad.

    But Abe and Noah seem to have left out “disgraceful.” So how about awful, wrong, and disgraceful?

     

    • #4
  5. connorfamilyr1 Coolidge
    connorfamilyr1
    @connorfamilyr1

    Think out beloved hosts were misguided until the last five minutes of the episode.

    Violence on the left has been escalating and regularly occurring for two years now with very little push back. Charlottesville was horrific and should be condemned. As it was by all GOP leadership and household names. Trump bobbled the ball but, you got to remember he was a democrat most of his life (probably still is), so he is used to looking the other way for violent racists. We gutta coach him up on the right.

    For me I don’t want to make Charlottesville a regular occurrence and I don’t want an event like that to allow MSM to paint all of the GOP as violent racists, even if some of them happen to vote for Republicans. I think the reaction on this show is playing into MSM’s game. Get a Republican on tv and make them apologize for some fringe wacko group. The ALT-Right, KKK, AntiFA, BLM, etc are all similar, I don’t care what party they happen to support at the time. All these clowns probably loved Bubba and Hillary in the 90s. They are a tiny minority of the country, that can’t even get one of their members elected as dog catcher. What election has David Duke or Richard Spenser ever won?

    It’s a mistake to feel the need to apologize or make a statement for their stupid actions that are not embraced by the elected members of the GOP. The left embraces these groups, the right does not. We need to make that difference clear.

    I think Trump in the future could just say … look maybe some of them voted for me but that means they endorse my agenda, it does not mean I endorse theirs.

    • #5
  6. filmklassik Member
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    connorfamilyr1 (View Comment):
    I think Trump in the future could just say … look maybe some of them voted for me but that means they endorse my agenda, it does not mean I endorse theirs.

    I don’t think you realize the extent to which Conservatism is inextricably tied in with Trumpism now.  It shouldn’t be — but it is.

    And many of us who opposed Trump opposed him for that very reason:  Because we knew he’d end up being a PR disaster for the Conservative brand.  And of course he was.  In the same way we knew Conservatives who supported Donald Trump (however reluctantly) would all be saying one thing to us in response:  “I got news for you, Mister.  The Left is going to smear us as racist sexist homophobes no matter who wins.”

    And of course, Trump supporters did say that to us.  They still do.

     

    • #6
  7. connorfamilyr1 Coolidge
    connorfamilyr1
    @connorfamilyr1

    filmklassik (View Comment):

    connorfamilyr1 (View Comment):
    I think Trump in the future could just say … look maybe some of them voted for me but that means they endorse my agenda, it does not mean I endorse theirs.

    I don’t think you realize the extent to which Conservatism is inextricably tied in with Trumpism now. It shouldn’t be — but it is.

    And many of us who opposed Trump opposed him for that very reason: Because we knew he’d end up being a PR disaster for the Conservative brand. And of course he was. In the same way we knew Conservatives who supported Donald Trump (however reluctantly) would all be saying one thing to us in response: “I got news for you, Mister. The Left is going to smear us as racist sexist homophobes no matter who wins.”

    And of course, Trump supporters did say that to us. They still do.

    Agreed, that is why I was Cruz fan. I did not want Trump.  But we got him so I think we gutta make the best of it.

    GOP is stuck as the Party of Trump for now, the conservative movement I’m not so sure. No one considers Trump a conservative.  I think he is barely considered a Republican. Trump actually separates himself from both parties, often refers to himself as one thing and Republicans/Democrats as the others. I think we have to wait for 2018/2020 to see what sticks and what doesn’t. Could see Trump running as independent and breaking away from the GOP. Trump doesn’t like the GOP, wants the party of Trump.

    Does the MSM treatment of the GOP really feel markedly different now when compared to President Bush or Candidate Romney? Same tricks and tips to smearing Republicans, if anything MSM is just more open about what they are doing.

    • #7
  8. connorfamilyr1 Coolidge
    connorfamilyr1
    @connorfamilyr1
    For Better or Worse, Trump and the GOP Need Each Other
    By FRED BARNES
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/for-better-or-worse-trump-and-the-gop-need-each-other/article/2009446
    • #8
  9. filmklassik Member
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    connorfamilyr1 (View Comment):

    GOP is stuck as the Party of Trump for now, the conservative movement I’m not so sure. No one considers Trump a conservative.

    See, that’s where a huge percentage of Trump’s supporters (however reluctant; however much they wanted Cruz or Rubio to win the nomination) are wrong.  They simply can’t get into the headspace of Americans under the age of 35, almost all of whom wrongly associate Donald Trump with Conservatism.

    They shouldn’t, but they do.

    Seriously.  You’ve got to believe something:  For an entire generation who never knew Ronald Reagan except in history books, Donald Trump is Conservatism.

    In other words, for tens of millions of young people, being a Conservative = being a racist, sexist, homophobic creep.

     

     

     

    • #9
  10. filmklassik Member
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    Trump (and his provocation-loving supporters) has succeeded in legitimizing every paranoid fantasy the Left has had about the Right, and this will prove to be his most unfortunate legacy.  Now and going forward, even good Conservative ideas (and there are plenty of them) will carry the stench of Donald Trump, which, in the minds of America’s young people, is the same as the stench of White Supremacy.

    So thanks to Trump and his ilk, the idea of American Exceptionalism = White Supremacy.

    And standing up for Israel = White Supremacy.

    And opposition to Political Correctness = White Supremacy.

    We are fast approaching the point where everything Ronald Reagan and William F. Buckley stood for is going to be equated with White Supremacy.

    Lovely.

     

     

    • #10
  11. connorfamilyr1 Coolidge
    connorfamilyr1
    @connorfamilyr1

    filmklassik (View Comment):
    Trump (and his provocation-loving supporters) has succeeded in legitimizing every paranoid fantasy the Left has had about the Right, and this will prove to be his most unfortunate legacy. Now and going forward, even good Conservative ideas (and there are plenty of them) will carry the stench of Donald Trump, which, in the minds of America’s young people, is the same as the stench of White Supremacy.

    So thanks to Trump and his ilk, the idea of American Exceptionalism = White Supremacy.

    And standing up for Israel = White Supremacy.

    And opposition to Political Correctness = White Supremacy.

    We are fast approaching the point where everything Ronald Reagan and William F. Buckley stood for is going to be equated with White Supremacy.

    Lovely.

    Meh… this is my exact criticism of the podcast. Until maybe the last 5 mins of the podcast they are talking about everything through the narrative the MSM has outlined.

    You are excepting the idea that because the Trump White House is incompetent and ignorant that the entire movement is doomed by proxy. Trump’s association with the party ideals is limited. My argument is the conservative movement and GOP is alive and well in spite of what might become a President Trump setback. Our worst fears about Trump haven’t even materialized yet.

    I’ll put it to you this way Trump’s approval is low, as is the approval for most of national leadership. He isn’t an outliner yet, he is part of the larger trend. Meanwhile on the state and local level you have extremely high level of approval of elected GOP officials. For example the top ten Governors with highest approval ratings are all Republican Governors. Some in blue or purple states.

    CHARLIE BAKER (R-MA) – 71%, LARRY HOGAN (R-MD) – 68%, MATT MEAD (R-WY) – 67%, DOUG BURGUM (R-ND) – 66%, DENNIS DAUGAARD (R-SD) -65%, KAY IVEY (R-AL) 64%, BRIAN SANDOVAL (R-NV) 62%, PHIL SCOTT (R-VT) – 62%, GARY HERBERT (R-UT) 61%, BILL HASLAM (R-TN) 60% https://morningconsult.com/governor-approval-ratings-july-2017/

    This has impact on voters and carries over to who they support and how people view the party. Who represents the future of the Republican party? I would say people like Marco Rubio, Tim Scott, Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Paul Ryan, Nikki Haley, Scott Walker, etc. Far from Trumpkins. And then examine the bench for the Democrats.

    Trump might not be winning, but the GOP has been before Trump and will be after if we support Trump where we can and call him out when appropriate. Don’t accept the MSM premise that its all doom and gloom for the GOP. It’s the wrong narrative and way to frame the conversation.

    • #11
  12. filmklassik Member
    filmklassik
    @filmklassik

    connorfamilyr1 (View Comment):

    You are excepting the idea that because the Trump White House is incompetent and ignorant that the entire movement is doomed by proxy. Trump’s association with the party ideals is limited. My argument is the conservative movement and GOP is alive and well in spite of what might become a President Trump setback. Our worst fears about Trump haven’t even materialized yet.

    I’ll put it to you this way Trump’s approval is low, as is the approval for most of national leadership. He isn’t an outliner yet, he is part of the larger trend. Meanwhile on the state and local level you have extremely high level of approval of elected GOP officials.

    This has impact on voters and carries over to who they support and how people view the party. Who represents the future of the Republican party? I would say people like Marco Rubio, Tim Scott, Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Paul Ryan, Nikki Haley, Scott Walker, etc. Far from Trumpkins. And then examine the bench for the Democrats.

    Trump might not be winning, but the GOP has been before Trump and will be after if we support Trump where we can and call him out when appropriate. Don’t accept the MSM premise that its all doom and gloom for the GOP. It’s the wrong narrative and way to frame the conversation.

    First of all, I am not GOP.   Heaven forbid!   They sicken me almost as much as the Democratic Party sickens me, and that’s saying something.  I am a bit Right of center in many (most) respects, but I sure as shootin’ ain’t no Republican.  That’s number one.  Number two is, Do you have any idea how young people — who are soon to become the largest voting block in the country –now regard the very concept of Conservatism?  They tend to conflate it with Trump.

    They shouldn’t, of course, but they do.

    So Trump’s association with Conservative thought is not limited.

     

    • #12
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