CBS Republican Debate: This Just Got Real

 

Well, folks, here we are again. Is this the ninth or the tenth Republican debate? I think I lost count. We have heard all the talking points before, we have seen all the candidates before, nothing new could have possibly happened. Right? If that’s what you thought, you are dead wrong, my friends.

This was the first debate that felt to me like it mattered, to everyone. No kiddie debate, and finally a manageable number of candidates. In fact, this debate got so intense for a while that I actually had to take down notes to make sure I didn’t miss anything.

The sparks flew in this debate, especially between Jeb! and Trump, and Cruz and Rubio. Normally I do this by candidate, but I think this time I will do it by highlighting the two main fights and my impressions of everyone’s role in them, and then a quick word on everyone individually.

The Iraq War:

This was maybe the fight of the night. Coming off of a general discussion on foreign policy in which Trump looked like the kid who’s asked to stand before the class and give a book report about a book he didn’t read, Trump bragged that he’d opposed the Iraq war and left it all but said that he thought Bush should have been impeached for it. He essentially made the Code Pink argument without bothering to go all the way to the “Bush lied people died” chant. But he might have done that, given time. This offered Jeb! a serious chance to jump in, defend his brother, and beat Trump for the ignorant Democrat that he is. Jeb! did a good job of it, actually. Kasich came in and said something of no consequence that I actually think was wrong, then Rubio came and laid down the hard truth. He might as well have said to Jeb!, “Step aside grandpa, this is how it’s done.”

Then Trump sunk so low he blamed W. for 9/11. It was pathetic.

But Rubio converted Trump’s lowest point in his campaign to a brutal and honest attack on Bill Clinton. This whole exchange was yuuuuge. I think it reveals Trump beyond all doubt to be a Democrat. I can’t see how it will help him in the Republican primaries. Maybe in a general it might work better, but in a South Carolina Republican primary?

Illegal Immigration:

Well, Ted and Marco, who are my number two and number one guys in this process, squared off hard on this one issue of seeming divergence. Cruz’s attack is as it’s always been: Slap Rubio with the Gang of Eight. Can’t fault the man for doing what works. Rubio, though, counter-punched hard. He essentially called Cruz a typical politician who in committee moved for amnesty and more visas but then on the floor fought it on just those counts. I guess we shall see how well this can be substantiated, but it was a hard rebuke against the one politician who is working hard to pretend he isn’t one. I’m looking to you, my fellow Ricochetti, to fact-check all of thi, for me. Of final note: Jeb! tried to pull a Christie after this heated Rubio v. Cruz, but like a novice he read the stage directions before delivering the line, by telling us he was going to pull a Christie and slam the Senators for their Senate talk. It was weak, and he lacked all the contempt and bluster that let Christie carry out that nonsense attack.

So let’s get down to the individual men.

Ben Carson: I say this every time I write about him. I just love this guy. If they made a plush doll of him I would buy it and hug it every day. I don’t think Ben has made any headway, sadly. But he made one good point, and had by far my favorite line of the night. The point he made was that judgement is more important when facing new circumstances than experience, because by definition no one could have any experience of a new situation. It was a good defense for his lack of experience, though it could be argued that experience builds wisdom. The line of the night was when he was asked to say something hard for people to hear, something that’s not PC. After a long ramble, he came to it. I shall paraphrase, “America’s problem isn’t evil rich people, but rather an irresponsible and evil government!” Ha! Beautiful.

John Kasich: You can’t see this, but I’m just shaking my head at the man right now. My head-shaking, I think, sums him up the best. New Hampshire was his moment, and it’s all downhill from there. I honestly can’t say anything about him because he said nothing of note or merit. His dad was a Democrat, Democrats like him, and he is running for the Republican nomination. Good luck. pal. Keep Ohio functioning. It’s a good state, you seem a fine governor.

Jeb!: Fourth place was not a bad result in New Hampshire. I doubt he will do better in South Carolina. He did, though, finally figure out how to stand up to Trump. But even at doing this he’s less good than Marco Rubio. Jeb! is like a 10-year-old luxury car. Sure, it’s well built, has leather seats, and cruise control, but Marco is a brand new model with better suspension, faster acceleration, and a sweet paint job. Now, I have a note here that says, “Jeb! said that people should vote for the most conservative governor or senator that can win.” Did he actually say that? With Marco standing right there? The same Marco that leads against Hillary in all the polls? Someone check that, because if he did, that is probably the biggest unforced error of the night.

Ted Cruz: He was good tonight, but not that great overall. His exchange with Rubio on immigration was tough, but I can’t tell if he came out the winner. All Rubio has to do on that front is hold steady, because that’s his one weakness against Cruz. On foreign policy, domestic policy, Ted is nothing special. He was, though, very good about discussing the precedent of judicial nominations and confirmations during election years, and he didn’t let the moderators’ ignorance get in the way, which we all know has tripped up past nominees. Cruz is a solid guy. I think he is more politician than he pretends to be, but I’m not offended by that.

Marco Rubio: Full disclosure: I love Marco Rubio. I really do. I think he is the bee’s knees. Why do I love him so? One, his power to articulate and explain ideas is one of the best if not the best in the party right now, certainly in the current field of nominees. Second, he knows foreign policy and cares deeply about it. When the moderators asked Trump and Jeb! about the three things they would ask about of their advisors about international affairs, Trump said a bunch of nonsense, Jeb! then said that he would have plans, which was basically more articulate nonsense than Trump’s. But Rubio nailed it down hard: China, Russia, and Iran. He gave a clear answer, had specifics. The man has a vision of the whole chess board. He sees it all. I’m not saying here he’s a genius or anything like that. But he sees that it is all connected and that you have to play the whole game, not just parts of it. Above all else, this makes me have confidence in him the most, because when it comes to foreign affairs, the President has the most unilateral powers imaginable under our constitution. On the domestic front, we have checks and balances galore. Elect a solid Republican House and Senate and with Rubio we will have as good an immigration policy as we would under Cruz or Trump. I can’t say the same about foreign policy with Cruz, who to me never seems to say much about it of distinction. Cruz is mostly bluster on this issue, and don’t even get me started on Trump’s foreign policy.

Donald Trump: Let’s get started. The man is a walking foreign policy disaster in the making. He all but says we should make alliance with Russia! His populist economics will do nothing but antagonize our allies. He shows no grasp of understanding how hard we have worked to maintain the world order that gives us prosperity and ensures freedom. I am in despair over this man. I think, “Maybe he is toning it down, maybe he won’t be so bad,” and then he gives populist rants like his on trade tonight, and his Iraq War and 9/11 arguments, and all I can see is a long dark future for freedom in the world if he’s elected. Honestly, I think Hillary might be better, and that very thought makes my head hurt.

What did you guys think? Can Trump be stopped? Is Marco making a comeback? Will Jim Gilmore win a brokered convention? Let me and the rest of Ricochet know.

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  1. Craig Inactive
    Craig
    @Craig

    Valiuth: Trump looked like the kid who is asked to stand before the class and give a book report on a book he didn’t read,

    a book report on The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11

    • #1
  2. Brian McMenomy Inactive
    Brian McMenomy
    @BrianMcMenomy

    The double-edged sword of the night (for Rubio, in particular); it was Jeb that was the point man on the visceral dust-up with Trump.  Someone needed to go after Trump, and Jeb did it better than he has this entire time.  Rubio got to step in & show that he knows foreign policy better than any of these guys.

    Rubio got to stay out of the worst of it, which redounds to his credit.  His problem is that Jeb had a good enough debate that his votes will at least stay there.

    Cruz stayed out of a lot of the back & forth, which was good, but the strong conservative vote that was up in the air (in SC, at least) will go to Rubio or Jeb.

    Trump’s slam-dunk win in SC just got a lot harder.  People may not be crazy about the Iraq war, but they like Michael Moore wannabes even less.

    • #2
  3. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Valiuth:Ted Cruz: His exchange with Rubio on immigration was tough, but I can’t tell if he came out the winner. All Rubio has to do on that front is hold steady, because that is his one weakness against Cruz. On foreign policy, domestic policy Ted is nothing special.

    I still remember the headline “Rubio calls to defend Turkey(‘s border) against Putin”, while deciding not to defend the border of this other county called — The United States of America.  (Defend the Muslims against the Christians, but never the Christians against the Muslims?)

    Some people like Rubio — and some don’t.  It can’t all be foreign policy.  That which interests some, does not interest others.  President George H. W. Bush and his White House Chief of Staff James Baker found that out during his 1992 defeat.

    Rubio seems to think that there is an endless supply of money for military spending.  That’s usually more the way Democrat politicians think.  At least John Kasich has made tough military budget decisions.

    Marco Rubio savior of Hispanics?  “38 percent of Latinos favor Trump. Ted Cruz got 15 percent. Jeb Bush pulled in 14 percent. And Marco Rubio, the guy who’s supposed to be the one who could unite the party and win? Just 8 percent.” — Ruben Navarrette, Jr., February 12, 2016

    • #3
  4. Mate De Inactive
    Mate De
    @MateDe

    But if Marco “sees it all” why didn’t he see that getting into bed with Chuck Schumer and the gang of 8 was a bad idea. I hope he learned from all that but I am not sure he is fully against amnesty. He just says it won’t pass now because the people don’t trust the government. They didn’t trust the government then either, why is it any different now?

    I like Marco but immigration is his weakness and I am not sure he has really shown that he is not for amnesty, and not for nothing he hits Cruz with the fact that he doesn’t speak Spanish, it was a direct hit to Cruz because Cruz got flustered but I believe that was more a personal attack and hat tip to Hispanics that Cruz isn’t authentic. I guess Marco knew where to hit Ted but it seemed more ethnic infighting than anything else.

    I still think Marco won the debate just not sure how it will translate to votes

    • #4
  5. Could Be Anyone Inactive
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    The Cloaked Gaijin:

    (Defend the Muslims against the Christians, but never the Christians against the Muslims?)

    Last I checked secular KGB members like Putin are not exemplars of Christianity (I think you just insulted the Orthodox Church to be honest). Second nowhere can you find Rubio arguing to eliminate the border of the USA, so you are making a false accusation. Third is that supporting an ally in defense against a historic enemy is the smart thing to do. Nowhere did Rubio advocate for Muslim violence against Christians.

     It can’t all be foreign policy. That which interests some, does not interest others. President George H. W. Bush and his White House Chief of Staff James Baker found that out during his 1992 defeat.

    How does that hurt Rubio? His domestic policy is fine.

    Rubio seems to think that there is an endless supply of money for military spending. That’s usually more the way Democrat politicians think. At least John Kasich has made tough military budget decisions.

    One of the few ordained purposes of the state is protection from foreign threats. It has far more legitimacy than the welfare state.

    Marco Rubio savior of Hispanics? “38 percent of Latinos favor Trump. Ted Cruz got 15 percent. Jeb Bush pulled in 14 percent. And Marco Rubio, the guy who’s supposed to be the one who could unite the party and win? Just 8 percent.” — Ruben Navarrette, Jr., February 12, 2016

    Here’s the take down of that cute little lie.

    • #5
  6. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    The Cloaked Gaijin:

    I still remember the headline “Rubio calls to defend Turkey(‘s border) against Putin”, while deciding not to defend the border of this other county called — The United States of America. (Defend the Muslims against the Christians, but never the Christians against the Muslims?)

    Mexican migrants are now supposed to be the equivalent of Putin’s Army? Please. This is why I find is so hard to not dismiss the immigration hawks. The situations are in no way equivalent. Also what is this defending Muslims from Christians? Is that supposed to be a reference to Bosnia? You think Milosavich was a Christian?

    • #6
  7. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Mate De:But if Marco “sees it all” why didn’t he see that getting into bed with Chuck Schumer and the gang of 8 was a bad idea. I hope he learned from all that but I am not sure he is fully against amnesty. He just says it won’t pass now because the people don’t trust the government. They didn’t trust the government then either, why is it any different now?

    I still think Marco won the debate just not sure how it will translate to votes

    Well I’m not sure how it work in votes either.

    Also my quote about seeing it all is with respect to the international scene not domestic politicking.

    I wonder though what makes Trump or Cruz so much more believable on immigration? Now Cruz has a record of being against amnesty (by the way what does that mean exactly? Is it just citizenship or more) though Rubio did bring up some interesting points which I have not checked into, about Cruz’s so called consistency. But, Trump? How can that man have any credibility on the issue?

    I don’t know what to say to make people trust Rubio on this. For me the totality of Rubio’s stances make me think he is a rock solid conservative. I think being burned by Schumer and the Dems on immigration will makes him far better suited to getting something done. Cruz just seems to burn bridges, and lead pointless fights.

    • #7
  8. Fat Dave Inactive
    Fat Dave
    @FatDave

     

    The Cloaked Gaijin:

    I still remember the headline “Rubio calls to defend Turkey(‘s border) against Putin”, while deciding not to defend the border of this other county called — The United States of America. (Defend the Muslims against the Christians, but never the Christians against the Muslims?)

    (A little something about Cruz’ lack of diplomatic polish that I wrote in response to another member who claimed Rubio was callow.)  You can’t get much more callow than the way Cruz showed his rear end at the In Defense of Christians conference back in September 2014. His grandstanding about Israel before a banquet hall filled with Arabic Christian clergy was shameful, and a personal friend in attendance said that he was even more condescending and glib in person than you see in the soundbites. The fact that he would tell a group which included the Maronite Catholic Patriarch that Israel was the defender of Christians in the Middle East showed that he is the Republican Barack Obama as far as diplomacy is concerned. His speech was intended to provide soundbites to cotton to Evangelical Christian voters, when he should have been saying something substantive pertaining to the persecuted group before him. And certainly not insulting them. And when they boo’ed him, the jerk doubled down.

    • #8
  9. J. D. Fitzpatrick Member
    J. D. Fitzpatrick
    @JDFitzpatrick

    Valiuth: I don’t know what to say to make people trust Rubio on this. For me the totality of Rubio’s stances make me think he is a rock solid conservative. I think being burned by Schumer and the Dems on immigration will makes him far better suited to getting something done. Cruz just seems to burn bridges, and lead pointless fights.

    Another way of reading this is that Rubio is all too ready to sacrifice his principles in order to get along, whereas Cruz is ready to live by his principles at the risk of alienating career politicians.

    If you’ve bought the establishment line, you’ll support the establishment guy. But as a counter to the “pointless fights” talking point, let me commend to your attention Andy McCarthy’s article on the shutdown. (h/t BDB)

    BTW, great overview. I do not have the time to watch the debates, and I really look forward to reading your summations. Much appreciated.

    • #9
  10. Fat Dave Inactive
    Fat Dave
    @FatDave

    Valiuth:

    John Kasich: You can’t see this, but I’m just shaking my head at the man right now. This I think sums him up the best. I think New Hampshire was his moment, and it is all downhill from there. I honestly can’t say anything about him tonight because he said nothing of note or merit. His dad was Democrat, democrats like him, and he is running for the Republican nomination. Good luck pal. Keep Ohio functioning. It’s a good state, you seem a fine governor.

    The best thing that Kasich could’ve said in response to the question about Democrats liking him was to point down the stage at the other candidates who had just slapped each other silly while Trump shouted that everyone else was a liar and say, “Not my monkeys, not my circus!”

    And in his closing remarks, he shouldn’t have said that he would devolve power back to the states.  They take that stuff seriously in South Carolina.  The only viable policy is to refortify Sumter first, THEN provide South Carolinians with a path to citizenship.

    • #10
  11. Claire Berlinski, Ed. Member
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    @Claire

    The Cloaked Gaijin: That which interests some, does not interest others.

    They may not be interested in war, but war is interested in them.

    • #11
  12. Claire Berlinski, Ed. Member
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    @Claire

    J. D. Fitzpatrick: BTW, great overview. I do not have the time to watch the debates, and I really look forward to reading your summations. Much appreciated.

    I second this. I look forward to your summaries now much more than I do the debates.

    • #12
  13. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Valiuth:Mexican migrants are now supposed to be the equivalent of Putin’s Army? Please.

    red-dawn-18-x

    The Russians Are Invading the America!  Run for your lives!  No, I think it’s still mostly the Mexicans and some from Central America.

    “Does anyone believe that news anchor Jorge Ramos would be an advocate for a mass influx of Russians flooding illegally into East Los Angeles?” — Victor Davis Hanson, February 2, 2016

    countries-of-origin-infographic-V4-758width

    • #13
  14. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    The Cloaked Gaijin: That which interests some, does not interest others.

    They may not be interested in war, but war is interested in them.

    “The F-22 takes 42 man-hours of maintenance for each hour in the air.”

    Wars can’t be fought and won by simply spending money in a foolish manner.  What’s the goal?  To have one really powerful airplane so long as it doesn’t have “a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port”?

    Screen-Shot-2016-01-22-at-5.08.21-PM-620x402

    • #14
  15. John Hendrix Thatcher
    John Hendrix
    @JohnHendrix

    Excellent analysis.  I second Claire’s sentiment in #12.

    I have a feeling that this debate will be much more consequential than most of the other ones.

    Trump managed to alienate the debate’s audience by giving a Michael Moore-worthy recitation of Democratic anti-Iraq war talking points.  That should go over well in SC.

    It appears that Trump took on some damage last night.  I cannot yet be sure that his campaign will begin taking on water, but I have high hopes that it does.

    • #15
  16. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Valiuth: Will Jim Gilmore win a brokered convention?

    A guy can hope.

    • #16
  17. Guruforhire Inactive
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    A couple of thoughts on the Iraq War:

    1.) There is a long strain going back to the 90s about being against nation building and foreign adventurism.

    2.) Bush ran against Clinton’s adventurism

    3.) Lots of veterans supported Ron Paul last time around.

    4.) Bush left office DEEPLY unpopular

    5.) The wars are not as popular as they once where in the services.

    One could very well make the case that there is a “It was stupid when Clinton did it, it was stupid when Bush did it, and it was stupid when Obama did it” vein of cynicism about foreign affairs.

    Relitigating the Iraq war especially in a landscape of demolished social trust, works for trump, even on the right.

    • #17
  18. Lucy Pevensie Inactive
    Lucy Pevensie
    @LucyPevensie

     

    J. D. Fitzpatrick:Another way of reading this is that Rubio is all too ready to sacrifice his principles in order to get along, whereas Cruz is ready to live by his principles at the risk of alienating career politicians.

    I went into this primary season with much this impression about him, that he was a brave crusader always true to principle. That’s what I believed right up until I started to look into his ethanol position.  In brief, the story is:

    1.  First he took a truly strong stand against ethanol.
    2. Then he changed his position to match that of Rubio and several other candidates.
    3. Then he decided to go further and actually pander to the ethanol lobby by pretending that somehow they would be able to sell more under his policies (if the blend wall was lifted).
    4. Then he went out and told everyone that he was the only candidate who stood firm against ethanol in Iowa.

    If anyone questions any of this, I’m happy to provide links. But you can Google it all yourself perfectly easily.

    • #18
  19. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    The Cloaked Gaijin: That which interests some, does not interest others.

    They may not be interested in war, but war is interested in them.

    They may not be interested in government, but government is interested in them.

    • #19
  20. James Madison Member
    James Madison
    @JamesMadison

    I agree that relitigating war is not popular. Americans are curling up in a ball and yelling, “go away, go away.”

    I watched this debate. This analysis by Valiuth was great!!!! Uuuuuge!

    Rubio was clearly over the others – Cruz still the smarmy politco, showed again as he showed in Iowa, that he can wilt a bit under fire. And Republicans better get this immigration thingy squared away – it is not that important with surveys of all Republicans rating it a distant fourth in most surveys behind Economy, ISIS, Deficit. Nationally, immigration polls show immigration at around 5-7%. If this issue is your life – well fine. I get it. But, it is not going to decide who the next “wall builder-in-Chief” is.

    Kasich bobble head, did this, did that, did more, did better. In the end, can anyone accept that someone with long lists of good deeds really did all those things. Kasich is the guy in high school who had a 7 page job experience resume. Mr. Superlative. Kasich is the reason colleges went to the Standardized Application.

    Jeb! is a nice guy – kind of. His mother is proud. And this is the first time this thought came into my head and that is perhaps Jeb!, the analytical one, is not as smart as his brother – who actually went to Yale where he earned a “C+” average and out scored,…. John F. Kerry, the smart one. Jeb! went to Texas something, and did a study abroad. Not the studious achiever he likes to portray.

    It was so good to not have Rand (self righteous Chicken Little), Christie (ridicule), and why was Ben there? Oh yes, to misquote Stalin from a false internet attribution.

    Valiuth is right on the money. Ted gave an impassioned speech in committee in 2013 and it is on video that the 11 million should be legalized per Ted. He was interviewed by Byron York (audio tape interview as well) where he said clearly he was sincerely for the Immigration Bill and was not playing tricks. York wrote about this in 2013. Then, on the Senate floor he switched (supposedly then because his amendments were not adopted) and then in December 2015 he claimed he was trying to kill the bill with a maneuver to make it untenable for the Democrats. Sooo, he lied then or lied now, which is what Marco said last night. Cruz now has a number of convenient positions which make him look like a word parser and tattle-tale.

    But, Cruz has this going for him in the south, HE is God’s chosen candidate. Providence Trumps reason.

    Trump is an strange version of Dr. Strangelove. He is for bombing families with Herr Putin as his ally. Hmmm? Historical precedence? Hitler-Stalin Pact? We think we know who Stalin is (not Putin, but Ben Carson of course) and that leaves some one else who lives in the “high Trump Castle” casino and resort to play Hitler. No I am not saying Trump is Nazi, only that he shares some scary populist tendencies and his followers don’t know what he really stands for, for the moment.

    Finally, this debate was nasty and all the NR, conservative punditry, and MSM’s were abuzz with how this debate will destroy the GOP – blah, blah, blah. This debate was tougher because there should have only been 3 guys on the stage. And that is why the field has to be winnowed. Carson was over in Iowa. Kasich should go on to Montana where he can hold 175 town hall meetings. If the campaign were 5 years long, he might have a chance to win 17% of the vote. But absent that, he is over too. And, Bush was over at birth. The name makes it so hard for so many independents and doubtful Republicans to pull the lever.

    Trump, Cruz and Rubio would add to Cruz’s and Rubio’s support and clean up the field, focus the issues and get this thing done. Until that time, it will be hard see us having enough displays like last night were Trump behaved so badly. We need more Trump foolish moments so an entire meme can be developed and he can be “auto-tuned” like Antoine Dodson – “hide yo wife, hide you kids.”

    • #20
  21. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    I watched the debate, which was very entertaining!  Lots of fireworks, and the audience wasn’t very fond of Trump.  He got booed a few times.  I agree with most of what you say, but I worry a bit that calling one another liars is a bad tactic.  Trump in particular acted petty and childish, which I think is true to his character and I hope brings him way down.  But I was sorry to see Rubio repeat that charge against Cruz over the immigration bill.  It would have been better not to do that.  He’s the candidate I like as well and I think it would be better for him to keep it on a higher plane.  They all know that fudging and tactics are required in politics, which is why its known as a dirty business. But it’s a bad idea to descend to a playground  brawl in a debate.  Be more subtle and let the audience draw their own conclusions.  That said, I think it was a good night for Rubio and Bush and a bad one for Trump.

    • #21
  22. listeningin Inactive
    listeningin
    @listeningin

    Dream world: Rubio, Cruz, and Bush all stand so thoroughly true to their love for this country that they get together and make some hard, self sacrificing decisions on her behalf…if only one of them stays in the race, Trump doesn’t have a chance.  Therefore, Jeb gives his funding to Rubio, who has the best chance against Hillary in the general election.  Imagine how that would go down in the history books in terms of upending all of our cynicism about politics…and how it would honor that goodness of the Bush’s that always comes across as genuine humility.  Cruz also steps aside, realizing that though he may rile up conservatives, he isn’t as likely to beat a horrible democrat at a crucial time in America’s history.  Instead, to the shock and awe of all, he voluntarily steps down, explains to the world that this is too important to mess up, and that he is going to get behind Rubio full board, and that he will continue to support him as a senator to haul tooshie on some of the most important issues of our day. IMAGINE the synergy that could create politically…Imagine how that might disarm so many who are so disgusted with selfish politics.  The irony is that if any one of them did this, it would probably bode really well for their future prospects in politics.  Americans love virtue.

    • #22
  23. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    V, I love these reports and appreciate your transparency about Rubio, but think your favoring him is limiting your objectivity. When Rubio claimed Cruz didn’t understand the Univision interview and Cruz responded in Spanish, something Rubio knew would happen, Rubio looked weak.

    Additionally, I think Ms. Strassel’s question about Rubio’s tax plan was outstanding and while he sounds good responding he played right into her premise.

    I still think he is a solid top 3 and could win. Cruz took huge hits that I think left marks on him. Before last night I thought Cruz could win SC, not sure now.

    • #23
  24. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    J. D. Fitzpatrick:

    Another way of reading this is that Rubio is all too ready to sacrifice his principles in order to get along, whereas Cruz is ready to live by his principles at the risk of alienating career politicians.

    I guess you can read it that way. My personal more favorable take is that the Cruz has a very lawyer mentality, and argues as a lawyer. When you have a client you fight for them right or wrong to the full extent of the law. You don’t always win, but you put forth all the arguments you can. We need people to have this attitude. But, this is not a style that is conducive to leadership. Leadership requires that you know what you yourself really believe make it clear to all, and then work to see how much you can actually accomplish. I get the feeling Cruz is only fighting for conservatives (which I like), while Marco is fighting for all of America (Which I like more).

    • #24
  25. James Madison Member
    James Madison
    @JamesMadison

    Merina,

    You are right about “liars” comments. But if Trump is on the stage, you have to hit him hard and keep hitting. Also, this a happened in the 2012 debates as well. Cruz is being fairly pummeled on his immigration tiptoeing. He was either lying then or now – and the video proves it.

    Brent,

    Go listen to the Univision interview. Rubio is right. Cruz looked ridiculous trying to speak Spanish last night. And the point wasn’t what Rubio said, it was that Cruz wanted to point out Rubio was interviewed and spoke in Spanish. Spanish is the evil language of the devil. That is why Cruz prevaricated about Rubio’s comments. It went no where.

    Your point on the Rubio tax plan is right and the “establishment” WSJ has blistered him on it. But tax plans are like unicorns, everyone wants to believe they have one, and none will ever exist in reality. The Rubio Plan is the Lee-Rubio Plan – as in Mike Lee, and it doesn’t get much better than that.

    Again, Cruz seems to wither under stress as he did when attacked in debates in Iowa, NH and last night. He is good with the attack, holds up on retort, and then becomes disheveled when interrupted. I suspect he is a trained debater and working the debating techniques in his mind and when he cannot complete – he loses his line of thought. Debaters are sometimes trained to be rigid and stay on the line of argument – even if absurd. Cruz is not at all absurd, but he just kind of pulls up at times and misses the opportunity. Trump shouts him down and tosses out quips that distrurb him from completing his thought.

    • #25
  26. Lucy Pevensie Inactive
    Lucy Pevensie
    @LucyPevensie

    Merina Smith:

    But I was sorry to see Rubio repeat that charge against Cruz over the immigration bill. It would have been better not to do that. He’s the candidate I like as well and I think it would be better for him to keep it on a higher plane.

    Merina, I may be wrong, but I suspect that Rubio really does say what he thinks, and I suspect that he comes back to this because Cruz’s dishonesty really does rankle with him. I’m saying that and putting it in the context of Cruz’s dishonesty on ethanol (see above). It must make the people who know Cruz  crazy to see him consistently credited as honest because he’s obnoxious, as though it were impossible to be both obnoxious and dishonest.

    • #26
  27. James Madison Member
    James Madison
    @JamesMadison

    Cruz is obnoxious about being honest, but without honesty. Wow. Wow.

    Very well put. Nailed it. 10 out of 10.

    That is what really bugs people about the guy (smarmy). And his campaign reflects him when in Iowa they did a hit job on Carson and with the “official voter” memo they sent out. These are people so pure, so ‘honest,’ so righteous, that they could not possible sin.

    It is like watching a “tent preacher.” You kind of know he is a fraud before the first “Hallelujah!” But, you sit and listen in the hope it might be true. And when the plate comes around you put your $10 bill contribution in the plate, along with that loan from Goldman Sachs and those checks from big oil donors.

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  28. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    JM, when Rubio said Cruz doesn’t speak Spanish last night does that meet your croteria for a lie, or is that just debate rhetoric. Pay no attention to the fact they’ve been in the Senate 3+ years together and are both children of Cuban immigrants. Rubio looked foolish when Cruz did that. I doubt many people in that audience speak or read Spanish, but they are going to remember what Rubio said and how Cruz responded.

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  29. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    BrentB67:V, I love these reports and appreciate your transparency about Rubio, but think your favoring him is limiting your objectivity. When Rubio claimed Cruz didn’t understand the Univision interview and Cruz responded in Spanish, something Rubio knew would happen, Rubio looked weak.

    Additionally, I think Ms. Strassel’s question about Rubio’s tax plan was outstanding and while he sounds good responding he played right into her premise.

    I still think he is a solid top 3 and could win. Cruz took huge hits that I think left marks on him. Before last night I thought Cruz could win SC, not sure now.

    I think I must have missed that whole Spanish thing you talk about, while going to the bathroom or something (Sorry for that). What happened?

    I thought Rubio handled that tax question very well, and gave what at one time would be seen as a great pro-family true social conservative answer. Now I happen to personally not be that fond of his child-tax credit scheme. But, I also am not that fond of a VAT either. Frankly I like Ben Carson’s one rate Flat Tax idea the best. But all of this Tax stuff has to survive congress, who knows what any of their plans will look like in the end?

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  30. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    I missed the debate last night, but loved Valiuth’s analysis, as usual. Now, with the death of Antonin Scalia, defusing Trump and getting a real conservative president has become essential, along with keeping Obama from appointing a successor in the meantime. These are particularly scary times which took a real turn for the worse yesterday.

    I have been a Cruz fan for some time, but also realized that Rubio was more likely to win an election. It is time for Republicans to begin to consolidate behind a candidate who can actually win a general election. That has been and remains Marco Rubio, not that blustering bag of wind, Donald Trump.

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