Permalink to Who Won?

Who Won?

 

Okay, I’ll go first: In the final third or so of the debate Ryan proved the dominant presence on the stage.

But by then it was too late.

During the first two-thirds or so, when viewers were still watching, Biden pushed Ryan around–and Ryan permitted him to get away with him. Biden proved a loudmouth and a boor. But he also proved the dominant figure on the stage.

If you had to choose a winner, I’d say–and it pains me–that Biden won.

But I’d also say it doesn’t matter. This debate won’t move the polls at all.

That’s my two cents. Yours?

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Members have made 174 comments.

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  1. Profile photo of genferei Member

    Joe played so fast and loose with the facts that almost everyone watching will have caught him out in some glaring lie. He just didn’t have the air of a man trying to tell the truth.

    Ryan gave no reason not to vote for him. I don’t understand the ‘too wonkish’ criticism: are people really not going to pull the lever for Romney because his VP knows stuff?

    • #1
    • October 12, 2012 at 1:29 am
  2. Profile photo of Percival Thatcher
    Ameriherron: Adam Baldwin over on twitter summed things up quite nicely. @PaulRyanVP “When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, the foolish man either rages or laughs and there is no rest.” —Proverbs 29:9.

    I think I’ll go around referring to the debate as “a Proverbs 29:9 situation.” There is something particularly satisfying about influencing people to look of Bible verses of their own free will. It’s like telling an occupier there is a dollar bill under a bar of soap. · 3 hours ago

    BadaBING! Nice one!

    • #2
    • October 12, 2012 at 3:29 am
  3. Profile photo of Boymoose Inactive

    Did Biden being a direspectful ass change anyones mind? Im sure it didn’t.

    • #3
    • October 12, 2012 at 3:50 am
  4. Profile photo of Nick Stuart Thatcher

    Having thought about it a lot since the debate, I’ve not come up with a reasonable way for Ryan to push back on Biden without losing points for being disrespectful, or turning the debate into more of a bad remake of a McLaughlin Group episode than it already was. Especially since Ryan was having to debate both Biden and the the moderator.

    Saying “Ryan should have been more assertive” is the counsel of perfection.

    Anybody who’s read or heard any actionable way for Ryan to have done better on this count (not just different, better) than Biden, please let us know.

    • #4
    • October 12, 2012 at 6:22 am
  5. Profile photo of Paul Erickson Member
    Brian McMenomy: Biden was certainly more animated and demonstrated better command of “facts” than Obama, but that improvement was lost not only by the 82 interruptions of Ryan, but the maniacal, uncontrolled disdain and contempt the camera caught.

    About that “disdain.” Did anything scream INSINCERITY! louder than Biden’s habit of referring to his opponent as “my friend?”

    • #5
    • October 12, 2012 at 6:26 am
  6. Profile photo of Cornelius Julius Sebastian Thatcher

    It was a draw. Maybe a slight edge to Ryan with the critical swing/indeps. Personally, I wanted to see Ryan rip Biden apart, which he could have done. That would have been intensely satisfying to conservatives but a turn off to the swings. Playing it cool, if even a little passive– but professional– may pay dividends with the swings. 

    • #6
    • October 12, 2012 at 6:33 am
  7. Profile photo of DrewInWisconsin Member
    Babci: Did our “man about the globe” Biden actually say that Syria is a much larger country than Libya?

    I think he said Syria was five times larger than Afghanistan. At least, that’s what I heard.

    • #7
    • October 12, 2012 at 6:43 am
  8. Profile photo of Trace Inactive

    Everyone commenting on Biden’s Syria/Libyagaffe, but am I wrong or was his reference to Sarah Palin’s “death panel” comment not a complete anachronism? Didn’t he say the “last time I was here debating Sarah Palin we were talking about death panels…”

    • #8
    • October 12, 2012 at 6:50 am
  9. Profile photo of Joan of Ark La Tex Member

    The Obama Ticket brand will come together on Saturday Night Life. 

    • #9
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:10 am
  10. Profile photo of Mollie Hemingway Contributor
    Trace Urdan: Everyone commenting on Biden’s Syria/Libyagaffe, but am I wrong or was his reference to Sarah Palin’s “death panel” comment not a complete anachronism? Didn’t he say the “last time I was here debating Sarah Palin we were talking about death panels…” · 38 minutes ago

    When he said that, I thought two things:

    1) He might be the one Democrat in this country who shouldn’t bring Palin up in a debate on account of how she trounced him the last time he was on that stage.

    2) How in the h-e-double-hockey-sticks could she bring up death panels in 2008? At that point, though, I’d lost count of his verbal gaffes and was just watching him laugh about nuclear war or whatever.

    • #10
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:31 am
  11. Profile photo of Michael L Inactive

    I just could not believe how Biden kept yelling at Martha… that couldn’t have scored any points.

    • #11
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:38 am
  12. Profile photo of katievs Inactive

    Here’s one of my main impressions:

    Ryan was right not to run for president. He’s the junior member of the ticket. And he’s a great and promising junior member. He held his own.

    Biden, on the other, was so much better at being glib and convincing than Obama that you have to wonder about the ticket arrangement. Obama looks even more pathetic now.

    • #12
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:40 am
  13. Profile photo of Cuban Mike Inactive

    Pyrrhic victory for Joe Biden.

    • #13
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:41 am
  14. Profile photo of The New Clear Option Inactive

    Martha was the winner.

    • #14
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:41 am
  15. Profile photo of katievs Inactive

    Another way of saying it: the Dems will be ecstatic for a day or two. Then they’ll remember they have to vote for Obama, not Biden.

    • #15
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:42 am
  16. Profile photo of RightTurn Member

    Biden won on gravitas, but I think Ryan’s gaffe quip will get the most replay. 

    • #16
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:42 am
  17. Profile photo of Jimmy Carter Member

    Biden came across as an ass.

    • #17
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:42 am
  18. Profile photo of flownover Inactive

    mugging , nervous sneers , what’s not to like if you like bullies ?

    unscoreable as a debate as it devolved, perhaps per the plan

    • #18
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:42 am
  19. Profile photo of Barkha Herman Member

    Ryan – but a “few” wines later, I might be biased.

    • #19
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:42 am
  20. Profile photo of Ramblin' Lex Member

    Biden was a mule eating briars. The grins, smirks, and smiles were painful to watch.

    His comments on Libya were particularly annoying. He threw the intel guys under the bus.

    • #20
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:42 am
  21. Profile photo of Melissa O'Sullivan Member

    1. Martha R. and VP Biden threw the intel community under the bus

    2. I was bored most of the time by the verbage and astonished by Biden’s grin and found myself-during the boring bits-thinking that Congressman’s Ryan’s hair reminded me of Eddie Munster.

    I doubt the needle was moved one way or the other.

    • #21
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:43 am
  22. Profile photo of Doug Lee Inactive
    Biden pushed Ryan around–and Ryan permitted him to get away with him. Biden proved a loudmouth and a boor. But he also proved the dominant figure on the stage.

    That was exactly my thoughts last night listening to it on the radio, but watching the video is an entirely different experience. Biden’s antics when Ryan was speaking were distracting, annoying and disrespectful.

    If Biden had looked on politely while his opponent was speaking (like Romney did to Obama), then his performance while it was his turn might have been seen and heard as it was on radio, where he had the clear advantage. As it was, though, Ryan won on video, which is how the vast majority of voters tuned in.

    • #22
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:43 am
  23. Profile photo of Good Berean Member

    On content I’d give it to Ryan. On hutzpah I’d give it to Joe.

    • #23
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:43 am
  24. Profile photo of ThePullmanns Inactive

    If we’re talking covering the floor, Biden won. On being fair and honest, Ryan won.

    Pretty disappointing. Worst thing was Martha interrupting Ryan just when he got started, allowing Joe to constantly interrupt, and asking inane questions.

    • #24
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:43 am
  25. Profile photo of Albert Arthur Coolidge

    Biden was such a jerk, I doubt he won.

    • #25
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:44 am
  26. Profile photo of M. T. S. Member

    I don’t know if I can pick a clear winner – I think it depends a lot on how much Biden’s early behavior affected people. It seemed like he landed some good hits, notably Ryan’s stimulus request, and Ryan missed a few opportunities to parry or counter-punch, notably not clearly explaining the difference between tax rates and revenues. I thought Ryan did a good job on social security and medicare though. And it’s possible Biden came off as a bit unhinged.

    In terms of moving the undecideds I would guess a draw. But I doubt I understand the thought process of an undecided voter.

    • #26
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:44 am
  27. Profile photo of Jeff Schulte Inactive

    Neither one did themselves any favors. Biden was pushy, and Ryan showed his nervousness. Biden may have over-reached, but Ryan really needed to be more assertive.

    Biden edges out the win

    • #27
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:44 am
  28. Profile photo of thelonious Member

    I agree with Peter. Biden was agressive and dominant but came across as boorish and condescending. Ryan must have been parched. How many glasses of water did he drink? Radditz lost me when she asked about how their catholicism affected their views on abortion. I thought she asked too many touchy feely questions.

    • #28
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:45 am
  29. Profile photo of GLDIII Reagan

    If this is an election that will be swayed by the ladies and if they watched this debate them I am sure they were creeped out by “Uncle Joe” and the inappropriate grin.

    • #29
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:45 am
  30. Profile photo of Doug Lee Inactive
    DrewInWisconsin
    Babci: Did our “man about the globe” Biden actually say that Syria is a much larger country than Libya?

    I think he said Syria was five times larger than Afghanistan. At least, that’s what I heard. · 1 hour ago

    I thought he was saying that Syria is 5 times larger than Libya. The argument was about why the administration has failed to get involved in Syria the way it did under similar circumstances during the Libyan rebellion.

    “Mr. Biden misspoke in explaining why the U.S. went into Libya but will not go into Syria. He said Syria was “geographically” five times larger than Libya. Libya, at 1.7 million square miles, is much larger than Syria, 185,180 square miles.”http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/10/11…

    My rough math is that Libya is nearly ten times the size of Syria. Oops!

    • #30
    • October 12, 2012 at 7:45 am
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