Immigration Politics, Or, Paul Ryan, Call Your Office

 

As immigration reform heads to the House, two observations, then a question.

The observations:

1. The Senate just passed immigration reform with the votes of only 14 of 46 Republicans, or less than one-third of the GOP caucus. Even as moderate a Republican senator as Rob Portman of Ohio failed to vote “aye.”

2. Speaker John Boehner has repeatedly insisted that he won’t even bring the bill to a vote unless it commands the support of a majority of House Republicans. I repeat. The Speaker won’t move this thing unless it commands a majority of his own caucus.

The question:

Representative Paul Ryan is perhaps the leading proponent of immigration reform among House Republicans. He’s principled and he’s very, very intelligent, Lord knows. But what can he be thinking

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  1. Profile photo of BrentB67 Inactive
    jeffp: For general edification, I offer a tweet from Ricochet’s own Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian):

    “People need to understand NOW that Paul Ryan is a Judas Goat on immigration & not defer to him for months before figuring it out, a la Rubio.”

    I believe this is good advice. · 6 hours ago

    A similar statement could be made about his desire to grow the federal government.

    • #1
    • June 28, 2013 at 2:32 am
  2. Profile photo of billy Member

    What are any of them thinking? Setting aside the obvious harm this bill will cause the country, it will be a complete disaster for the political fortunes for the Republican party.

    • #2
    • June 28, 2013 at 4:53 am
  3. Profile photo of Bryan G. Stephens Reagan

    I don’t see how someone can vote yes for this bill and still be called “principled”. As of yet, none of them have given a straight answer on it. They are speeding it through and lying about parts of it.

    Principled does not enter into it, unless it means following the principle of elites siding with elites against the majority of voters.

    If Ryan is not doing that, then he needs to explain himself and not play Rubio Jr.

    • #3
    • June 28, 2013 at 4:55 am
  4. Profile photo of jarhead Inactive

    Ryan is thinking of his run for POTUS in 2016.

    • #4
    • June 28, 2013 at 4:58 am
  5. Profile photo of Scott R Member

    He believes it’s the right thing to do, so he’s pushing for it.

    He also has a track record of coaxing Republicans over to his way of thinking.

    Whether he’s right or wrong, I’ve no idea.

    • #5
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:09 am
  6. Profile photo of Nick Stuart Thatcher
    Jimmy Carter
    Nick Stuart

    The Beltway Republicans apparently have no idea that the rank-and-file Republican voters out here in the districts are on the verge of a mutiny, and may go over the edge if we end up with a scamnesty bill & no border security. · 4 minutes ago

    A “Tea Party Mutiny”

    I like it. What would the event look like? We collectively burn Our Voter registration cards (I don’t want to throw them in any bodies of water)? · 10 hours ago

    A refusal to contribute time and/or money to candidates.

    A lot more people would simply stay home in 2014 and 2016 than did in 2012.

    Reps being primaried on the single issue of “I won’t vote for Boehner for House Speaker.” 

    • #6
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:16 am
  7. Profile photo of Nick Stuart Thatcher
    Jordan Wiegand: 

    In any event, the House will offer up its own bill. No way Boehner lets the senate bill to the floor. For some strange reason I’m very optimistic about the House allowing this debate to cool down a little bit, which is interesting, considering the Senate is supposed to be the more deliberative body. · 7 hours ago

    In which case it will go to a House/Senate conference, where the conferees will all be amnesty supporters of one variety or another. The final bill will have churned the words, and added plenty of pork, but otherwise be the same amnesty with no border security bill the Senate passed. Every politician will be able to claim they did something, and it will be 1986 all over.

    • #7
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:20 am
  8. Profile photo of Eric Hines Member

    Representative Paul Ryan is perhaps the leading proponent of immigration reform among House Republicans. He’s principled and he’s very, very intelligent, Lord knows. But what can he be thinking?

    That our immigration system desperately wants reform. Just not along the lines of the Senate’s nonsense.

    Eric Hines

    • #8
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:24 am
  9. Profile photo of curtmilr Inactive

    Ryan is flat out WRONG on this, and if he persist, like Rubio, he will end any chance at a future advancement in national office.

    Pro-Amnesty Hispanics will never vote GOP under any circumstance. But anti-Amnesty Republicans and conservatives can definitely stay home on election day, as both McCain & Romney experienced.

    I like Ryan’s economic approach, if too slow, but he is is brain dead on this one!

    BTW, I don’t trust Boehner’s word on the Conference Bill at al, unles he freezes out ALL moderates to go to conference!

    • #9
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:30 am
  10. Profile photo of E. Lee Zimmerman Inactive

    Uh … seriously, what evidence do we have that Paul Ryan is so intelligent? If he’s joined himself at-the-hip to the losing proposition that is this particular form of Scammigration, I’d argue that he’s half-brained, at best.

    • #10
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:43 am
  11. Profile photo of DocJay Member

    The fact that our politicians are willing to do business as usual in spite of FBI cover ups, DOJ cover ups, IRS cover ups, and general behavior that makes Nixon looks like a shoplifter, is very telling.

    I am off tomorrow and will visit the DMV to change to the Libertarian party. I can’t say I am in to their whole platform but at least they aren’t crooked betrayers of the constitution like our Dean Heller (R) NV. 

    Brian Watt’s Open Letter To The RNC says it all. It should be main page.

    • #11
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:47 am
  12. Profile photo of Jimmy Carter Member

    Let’s see…. Our government’s responsibilities include defending Our borders and upholding the law.

    After decades and decades of epic failure on the part of Our government in these areas, they want to tell Us that it’s Our immigration policies and laws that need “reform[ed].”

    The solution isn’t “immigration reform,” but government reform.

    • #12
    • June 28, 2013 at 5:58 am
  13. Profile photo of WI Con Member

    I was thinking of Paul Ryan today after hearing yet another one of those scurrilous ads. I recall the emotion he showed when about 15,000 Cheese Heads came out on short notice after his selection as Romney’s running mate. I hope he savored that, cause I doubt that will happen again.

    We often talk of the consultant class and focus groups in this forum. My hunch is that they have reams of data suggesting that we’ll all fall in line, just like we did for Dole and McCain and Romney – after all, where are we going to go? Well, 6.1 million never left the house last time – I’m betting that number goes up in 2014.

     I agree with Doc Jay – see Brian Watt’s Open Letter to RNC.

    • #13
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:09 am
  14. Profile photo of Commodore BTC Member

    the House should have been passing popular enforcement and visa reform measures a long time ago and sending them to Harry Reid

    instead they are in total reaction mode

    Boehner has no strategy to win the argument in the public arena, it’s pathetic. 

    • #14
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:14 am
  15. Profile photo of BrentB67 Inactive
    Nick Stuart
    Jimmy Carter
    Nick Stuart

    The Beltway Republicans apparently have no idea that the rank-and-file Republican voters out here in the districts are on the verge of a mutiny, and may go over the edge if we end up with a scamnesty bill & no border security. · 4 minutes ago

    A “Tea Party Mutiny”

    I like it. What would the event look like? We collectively burn Our Voter registration cards (I don’t want to throw them in any bodies of water)? · 10 hours ago

    A refusal to contribute time and/or money to candidates.

    A lot more people would simply stay home in 2014 and 2016 than did in 2012.

    Reps being primaried on the single issue of “I won’t vote for Boehner for House Speaker.” · 54 minutes ago

    I think 2014 may be the year that breaks the pattern of mid term victories for the party out of power.

    With Obama not on the ticket and the sorry performance of republicans in Congress I think your 2nd bullet point will be very prophetic.

    • #15
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:16 am
  16. Profile photo of Scott R Member
    DocJay:

    I am off tomorrow and will visit the DMV to change to the Libertarian party. I can’t say I am in to their whole platform but at least they aren’t crooked betrayers of the constitution like our Dean Heller (R) NV. 

     

    But docjay, aren’t the libertarians open-border types, by and large? Remember Ron Paul’s bizarre riff about his fear the fence will be used to “keep us in”, etc.,?

    • #16
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:28 am
  17. Profile photo of Majestyk Thatcher

    A different Paul (of the Rand variety) got the message. He voted against the bill.

    In the early jockeying for position on 2016, Rand Paul broke away from the pack with that move.

    Good for him.

    • #17
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:31 am
  18. Profile photo of BrentB67 Inactive

    Wow. The Ricochet patron saint of the right is taking a bit of a thrashing on the main page. Never thought I would see the day.

    I think the fundamental flaw in Ryan’s and others thinking is that they have yet to make the case of the need for immigration reform. A lot of good comments already posted by Jimmy Carter and others. Why don’t we try enforcing the laws we have in the books before we add 24lbs to the stack?

    • #18
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:37 am
  19. Profile photo of DocJay Member
    Scott Reusser
    DocJay:

    I am off tomorrow and will visit the DMV to change to the Libertarian party. I can’t say I am in to their whole platform but at least they aren’t crooked betrayers of the constitution like our Dean Heller (R) NV. 

    But docjay, aren’t the libertarians open-border types, by and large? Remember Ron Paul’s bizarre riff about his fear the fence will be used to “keep us in”, etc.,? · 5 minutes ago

    Ron Paul says some strange stuff every now and then. He makes great sense and then spits out some weirdness like folks fleeing Chupacabras.

    I’m sick of crooks. I’m sick of pork. I’m sick of liars. I’m sick of people who twiddle their thumbs while this administration full of racist criminals does whatever they want to and so few stand up to them. Screw the GOP. It’s I or L.

    • #19
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:37 am
  20. Profile photo of Nick Stuart Thatcher
    WI Con: I was thinking of Paul Ryan today after hearing yet another one of those scurrilous ads. I recall the emotion he showed when about 15,000 Cheese Heads came out on short notice after his selection as Romney’s running mate. I hope he savored that, cause I doubt that will happen again.

    We often talk of the consultant class and focus groups in this forum. My hunch is that they have reams of data suggesting that we’ll all fall in line, just like we did for Dole and McCain and Romney – after all, where are we going to go? Well, 6.1 million never left the house last time – I’m betting that number goes up in 2014.

     I agree with Doc Jay – see Brian Watt’s Open Letter to RNC. · 26 minutes ago

    The Beltway Republicans apparently have no idea that the rank-and-file Republican voters out here in the districts are on the verge of a mutiny, and may go over the edge if we end up with a scamnesty bill & no border security.

    • #20
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:38 am
  21. Profile photo of MBF Member
    MBF

    My hunch is that he is in favor of mostly open borders for purely economic reasons. But it’s difficult to pass off a naked bottom line GDP growth argument unless your only audience is CATO institute or Wall Street Journal. So he gives half hearted assurances about border security that he knows deep down are worth about as much Chamberlain’s “peace in our time.” I could be wrong, but I believe I have seen enough of him over the years to have pegged him on this issue.

    • #21
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:47 am
  22. Profile photo of Jimmy Carter Member
    Nick Stuart

    The Beltway Republicans apparently have no idea that the rank-and-file Republican voters out here in the districts are on the verge of a mutiny, and may go over the edge if we end up with a scamnesty bill & no border security. · 4 minutes ago

    A “Tea Party Mutiny”

    I like it. What would the event look like? We collectively burn Our Voter registration cards (I don’t want to throw them in any bodies of water)?

    • #22
    • June 28, 2013 at 6:48 am
  23. Profile photo of James Gawron Coolidge

    Peter,

    I don’t know what Paul Ryan is thinking but I know what a certain well known conservative pundit is thinking.

    MS Blue Eyes, as I like to refer to her is a 20 game winner. She can throw a 95 mile an hour rising fast ball that will remove the tip of your nose if you don’t wake up.

    Somebody tell Paul to wake up!

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #23
    • June 28, 2013 at 7:10 am
  24. Profile photo of Jan-Michael Rives Inactive
    curtmilr:

    Pro-Amnesty Hispanics will never vote GOP under any circumstance. 

    Weird, I thought I picked column B the last few times… All this tequila in between my siestas must be affecting my memory.

    • #24
    • June 28, 2013 at 7:30 am
  25. Profile photo of wmartin Inactive
    Mark Belling Fan: My hunch is that he is in favor of mostly open borders for purely economic reasons. But it’s difficult to pass off a naked bottom line GDP growth argument unless your only audience is CATO institute or Wall Street Journal. So he gives half hearted assurances about border security that he knows deep down are worth about as much Chamberlain’s “peace in our time.” I could be wrong, but I believe I have seen enough of him over the years to have pegged him on this issue. · 51 minutes ago

    He has referenced Jack Kemp a lot for his support for high levels of immigration in the past, so I think his support is at least as much for idealistic “Brotherhood of Man” reasons. I have ungenerously referred to Kemp’s optimistic idealism as “pie in the sky conservatism” and the virus has infected Ryan.

    • #25
    • June 28, 2013 at 7:54 am
  26. Profile photo of wmartin Inactive
    curtmilr: Ryan is flat out WRONG on this, and if he persist, like Rubio, he will end any chance at a future advancement in national office.

    Pro-Amnesty Hispanics will never vote GOP under any circumstance. But anti-Amnesty Republicans and conservatives can definitely stay home on election day, as both McCain & Romney experienced.

    I like Ryan’s economic approach, if too slow, but he is is brain dead on this one!

    Ryan seems to believe that Hispanics will vote for his style of entitlement reform. he also goes on and on about a future “labor shortage” that we need to correct in order to pay for entitlements, but apparently believes that the legalized illegals will never grow old themselves.

    • #26
    • June 28, 2013 at 7:57 am
  27. Profile photo of jeffp Member

    For general edification, I offer a tweet from Ricochet’s own Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian):

    “People need to understand NOW that Paul Ryan is a Judas Goat on immigration & not defer to him for months before figuring it out, a la Rubio.”

    I believe this is good advice.

    • #27
    • June 28, 2013 at 8:01 am
  28. Profile photo of wilber forge Inactive

    Just how is it with the American political thinking that just passing new laws will repair the failing enforcement of the existing rules ?

    Try researching the Mexican immigration laws, Darn tough they are. No reciprosity exists there. Perhaps try moving to Australia and other points on the globe.

    The imigration policies of the UK and Sweden have proven to be social disasters on this issue.Similar to what is proposed here.

    So why follow in the face of such glaring examples of failure ?

    If anyone supports this, just say ” You Bought it, you own it”.

    No excuses.

    • #28
    • June 28, 2013 at 8:01 am
  29. Profile photo of Plato's Retweet Inactive

    How does a conference bill get framed? If McCain, Graham etc. are on the committee won’t they just vote for the Senate version with all the Dems?

    Is it even possible for the most conservative Republicans in the House to have veto power over a conference bill? Couldn’t the House passing any bill open the door to something much like the Senate bill becoming law?

    Immigration reform must require the most stringent alien registration requirements in all states (biometrics: i.e. not just photos, addresses etc. but also fingerprints and DNA .) Ultimately, biometric ID must be required at polling places and on absentee ballots by the time any “path to citizenship” reaches its destination. Otherwise, expect massive voter fraud in the years to come.

    My greatest worry is not the bill itself, but that conservative rage over an unacceptable immigration law will demoralize our voters and give Obama back a House Majority for his last two years in office. 

    We can absorb losing Hispanic votes in some 2014 districts. We can’t absorb losing our base.

    • #29
    • June 28, 2013 at 8:03 am
  30. Profile photo of James Of England Moderator
    BrentB67
    Nick Stuart

    …..

    A refusal to contribute time and/or money to candidates.

    A lot more people would simply stay home in 2014 and 2016 than did in 2012.

    Reps being primaried on the single issue of “I won’t vote for Boehner for House Speaker.” · 54 minutes ago

    I think 2014 may be the year that breaks the pattern of mid term victories for the party out of power.

    With Obama not on the ticket and the sorry performance of republicans in Congress I think your 2nd bullet point will be very prophetic. · 1 hour ago

    If Boehner opposes amnesty, and Tea Party politicians like Amash support amnesty, we who oppose amnesty should punish Boehner for his treatment of Amash and his ilk? I struggle to follow this logic.

    I agree that there are plenty of Tea Partiers who view these things tribally; Amash can do no wrong, Boehner can do no right, so anything bad that happens must be Boehner’s fault and any thing good that happens, Amash’s, but I can’t imagine that the more absurd examples of this would carry much weight.

    • #30
    • June 28, 2013 at 8:31 am
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