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  1. Profile photo of dash Inactive
    CuriousKevmo: In my view the verdict is correct. But Zimmerman should have just walked away when he had the chance. · 6 hours ago

    In my view the verdict is correct, and Martin should have gone home when he had the chance.

    • #1
    • July 15, 2013 at 4:08 am
  2. Profile photo of billy Member
    Tommy De Seno:

    I will give you kudos for one thing though. Your Zimmerman-shoulda-taken-his-beating-like-a-man theory of the case is far better than anything put forth by the prosecution.

    • #2
    • July 15, 2013 at 4:53 am
  3. Profile photo of Percival Thatcher

    Zimmerman should have carded Trayvon before he plugged him.

    “Excuse me, could you take a break from bouncing my noggin off of the sidewalk and show me some form of picture ID?”

    • #3
    • July 15, 2013 at 4:56 am
  4. Profile photo of Tommy De Seno Contributor
    Roman Genn: Tommy, not sure how my ethnic origin came into play?… · 7 hours ago

    I was hoping to give you the benefit of the doubt. There is an Americanized version for the meaning of “schmuck” that synonymizes with words descriptive of a fool or oafish person.

    In Jewish culture it’s a far more crass swear word unworthy of the dinner table conduct we maintain at Ricochet, as is your jejune tweet posing as a Ricochet post.

    • #4
    • July 15, 2013 at 5:05 am
  5. Profile photo of Tommy De Seno Contributor
    Roman Genn: Actually, Tommy is correct , the departed was an outstanding citizen.

    …tardiness and truancy….graffiti… …jewelry…A screwdriver… no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen…marijuana pipe and an empty bag containing marijuana residue.

    You forget the 3 violent incidents involving police including two arrests, an assault on a police officer, an assault on a woman, time spent in a judicial diversionary program, an allegation of sexual abuse from a minor/relative and a homicide.

    Of course that wasn’t Tray, it was the new conservative hero George Zimmerman (Tray has not one arrest on his record).

    I never understood how black people adopted OJ as a rallying point, believing it to be a race related anomaly. Now I see it’s a cross cultural psychosis.

    • #5
    • July 15, 2013 at 5:16 am
  6. Profile photo of Tommy De Seno Contributor
    billy
    Tommy De Seno:

    I will give you kudos for one thing though. Your Zimmerman-shoulda-taken-his-beating-like-a-man theory of the case is far better than anything put forth by the prosecution. · 24 minutes ago

    As I said when I wrote it, that was a cultural analysis based upon my life experiences, not a legal analysis. I stand by it.

    If this post doesn’t get kicked by the editors when the author calls Tray a dick, I expect equal treatment for pointing out that Zimmerman is a pussy.

    Often people lament that younger people today don’t settle matters with their fists as we did back in the day and are too quick to go to guns.

    Now we celebrate irresponsible gun use. Why the exception?

    Perhaps conservatives see a perceived threat to gun rights from this incident, as do I. The proper response to that is to oppose Zimmerman and assure people conceal carry doesn’t mean the untrained citizen will replace the trained policeman. 

    Or perhaps, some conservatives find themselves as knee deep in choosing sides based upon race as the media.

    • #6
    • July 15, 2013 at 5:26 am
  7. Profile photo of 9thDistrictNeighbor Member

    Here’s another dividing line in our country: how many people even know what the Zimmermann telegram was? Anyone? Bueller?

    • #7
    • July 15, 2013 at 5:27 am
  8. Profile photo of Goldgeller Member
    Tommy De Seno

    Perhaps conservatives see a perceived threat to gun rights from this incident, as do I. …

    Or perhaps, some conservatives find themselves as need deep in choosing sides based upon race as the media. · 1 minute ago

    Edited in 0 minutes

    I don’t take any sides in the case. I don’t imagine that Z was some hero or T was some villain. But you make at least one good point– it just happened that everyone’s “favorite villains” lined up on the predictable sides? Some commentary, not on Ricochet, but on other websites got a bit out of hand I thought. The argument morphed from “Zimmerman acted in self defense” to “Zimmerman is a pretty cool guy and he’sour guy” (more or less).

    But Roman’s point–while I wouldn’t have made it that way– seems strong. Martin was giving Z a beating. How’d that happen? Did Z really call the cops and then plan to start a fight? Did Z call the cops and then decide to murder the kid? In the middle of a housing development? Zimmerman probably did get jumped.

    • #8
    • July 15, 2013 at 5:37 am
  9. Profile photo of Basil Fawlty Member
    billy
    Tommy De Seno:

    I will give you kudos for one thing though. Your Zimmerman-shoulda-taken-his-beating-like-a-man theory of the case is far better than anything put forth by the prosecution. · 49 minutes ago

    But Tommy’s suggestion that Trayvon thought he was being pursued by a pedophile is a pretty good match with the prosecution’s pathetic “child abuse” ploy.

    • #9
    • July 15, 2013 at 5:53 am
  10. Profile photo of ctlaw Thatcher

    Two men saw another suspicious man that night.

    Zimmerman called police and accurately reported observations of Martin.

    Martin did not.

    Martin, not Zimmerman, used a racial epithet.

    Martin apparently ambushed Zimmerman and sucker punched him. Miss Jeantel dismissed the fight because she was accustomed to that kind of conduct from Martin. Due to the in limine rulings, Zimmerman’s attorneys could not introduce evidence of Martin’s violent past but she volunteered this one tidbit.*

    Martin repeatedly beat Zimmerman in such a way that the absence of severe-to-fatal injury to Zimmerman was lucky. Only then did Zimmerman respond.

    However, according to one of the many “facts not in evidence” statements by the prosecution, it was Martin who acted in self defense.

     * Edit. This was in the letter she dictated to the Martin family which closed: “In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story. Thank you.”

    • #10
    • July 15, 2013 at 6:07 am
  11. Profile photo of dash Inactive
    Tommy De Seno
    billy
    Tommy De Seno:

    I will give you kudos for one thing though. Your Zimmerman-shoulda-taken-his-beating-like-a-man theory of the case is far better than anything put forth by the prosecution. · 24 minutes ago

    As I said when I wrote it […etc…]

    Hold on, let me check… Yup, the verdict is still not guilty.

    • #11
    • July 15, 2013 at 6:13 am
  12. Profile photo of CuriousKevmo Member
    billy
    CuriousKevmo: In my view the verdict is correct. But Zimmerman should have just walked away when he had the chance. · 2 hours ago

    I tend to agree with you, but the idea that Martin was some wide-eyed innocent child is absurd. · 6 hours ago

    I don’t disagree with you. Nor Dash for that matter. This is tragic no matter what you think of the verdict.

    • #12
    • July 15, 2013 at 6:17 am
  13. Profile photo of billy Member
    Tommy De Seno

    Perhaps conservatives see a perceived threat to gun rights from this incident, as do I. The proper response to that is to oppose Zimmerman and assure people conceal carry doesn’t mean the untrained citizen will replace the trained policeman. 

    Or perhaps, some conservatives find themselves as need deep in choosing sides based upon race as the media. · 1 hour ago

    Edited 1 hour ago

    I can’t speak for all conservatives, but to the extent I am on Zimmerman’s “side”, it was because he was obviously being railroaded by the media/politician/race hustlers.

    Until the trial, I was open to the possibility that he was in some way criminally liable.

    Canadian Conservative has an interesting post on the Member Feed on the media’s completely different reaction to another white-on-black crime.

    • #13
    • July 15, 2013 at 6:44 am
  14. Profile photo of ctlaw Thatcher
    simplogic
    Tommy De Seno: I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that you were calling the deceased minor a dick. · 26 minutes ago

    Maybe “thug” is more appropriate for a person committing an unrelenting assault. · 9 hours ago

    Tommy, If Martin had survived, and we were not in a PC world, he would have been charged as an adult with aggravated assault/battery (or something like it). Perhaps there might have been some drug crime enhancement.

    That’s a conservative charge. One could have charged him with attempted murder with whatever enhancements might be available for racial animus, drugs, and use of a firearm. There is generally more evidentiary and legal support for those charges than what Zimmerman was charged with.

    If Zimmerman had died, the available charge would have been murder 1 in many jurisdictions.

    • #14
    • July 15, 2013 at 6:59 am
  15. Profile photo of 1967mustangman Member

    Best post ever.

    • #15
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:15 am
  16. Profile photo of I. raptus Member

    Too soon?

    • #16
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:16 am
  17. Profile photo of Roman Genn Contributor
    Roman Genn Post author

    Not for me!

    • #17
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:18 am
  18. Profile photo of Tommy De Seno Contributor

    Roman are you Jewish?

    • #18
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:32 am
  19. Profile photo of Roberto Inactive

    Droll. Perhaps Florida should invade Peru via Mexico in recompense for this farce. 

    • #19
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:54 am
  20. Profile photo of DocJay Member

    By all means, let’s just yield the night to the hoodlums. It’s working so well in England.

    • #20
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:55 am
  21. Profile photo of Roman Genn Contributor
    Roman Genn Post author

    Last I checked, Tommy.

    • #21
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:57 am
  22. Profile photo of DocJay Member

    Does anyone think that a woman dressed sleazy should just take her rape?

    • #22
    • July 15, 2013 at 7:57 am
  23. Profile photo of Tommy De Seno Contributor

    I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that you were calling the deceased minor a dick.

    • #23
    • July 15, 2013 at 8:15 am
  24. Profile photo of Basil Fawlty Member
    Tommy De Seno
    Roman Genn: Tommy, not sure how my ethnic origin came into play?… · 7 hours ago

    I was hoping to give you the benefit of the doubt. There is an Americanized version for the meaning of “schmuck” that synonymizes with words descriptive of a fool or oafish person.

    In Jewish culture it’s a far more crass swear word unworthy of the dinner table conduct we maintain at Ricochet, as is your jejune tweet posing as a Ricochet post. · 3 hours ago

    Edited 2 hours ago

    Roman could have been even more offensive. He could have referred to a 17-year-old African-American male as a “boy.”

    • #24
    • July 15, 2013 at 8:15 am
  25. Profile photo of Roberto Inactive
    Tommy De Seno: I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that you were calling the deceased minor a dick. · 19 minutes ago

    It seems odd that you are overflowing with compassion for a fellow that attempted to beat another man to death. 

    • #25
    • July 15, 2013 at 8:41 am
  26. Profile photo of simplogic Inactive
    Tommy De Seno: I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly that you were calling the deceased minor a dick. · 26 minutes ago

    Maybe “thug” is more appropriate for a person committing an unrelenting assault.

    • #26
    • July 15, 2013 at 8:42 am
  27. Profile photo of Susan in Seattle Member

    Very well played.

    • #27
    • July 15, 2013 at 8:55 am
  28. Profile photo of Roman Genn Contributor
    Roman Genn Post author

    Tommy, not sure how my ethnic origin came into play?…

    • #28
    • July 15, 2013 at 9:16 am
  29. Profile photo of Eugene Kriegsmann Member

    We do not have all of the “facts” in the case. However, we do know that Trayvon was substantially larger than Zimmerman and significantly stronger and better coordinated. As one who spent more than 40 years teaching special education in schools with a majority of the population, particularly in my classes, comprised of Black students, I can attest to the athleticism and aggressiveness of young Black males. The testimony that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman as Zimmerman was returning to his car is not at all unbelievable to me based on my experiences. I have also seen enough hallway and schoolyard and classroom fights to know that the limits that middle class Whites accept as a part of any fight they remember when they were in school do not apply. Whether Trayvon would have killed Zimmerman or merely left him permanently brain damaged is without question based on my experience. Given Zimmerman’s lack of coordination and physical fitness he was definitely overmatched. The use of deadly force is considered justified where there is an overwhelming difference in physical capability. There is little doubt that that that difference existed.

    • #29
    • July 15, 2013 at 9:17 am
  30. Profile photo of DocJay Member

    There are some on the side that Zimmerman should have taken his beating like a man. I would counter that by the same logic, a woman dressed suggestively but with a gun in her purse, should just take her rape without shooting the rapist.

    • #30
    • July 15, 2013 at 9:17 am
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