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  1. Profile photo of Franco Member

    I find myself in sympathy with the speaker. The content of the speech is what is important not the Austrian accented German. The man has a right to be outraged. We all do.

    The message is clear and it should resonate everywhere. Don’t  demand we tolerate your intolerance.

    And really, is tolerating intolerance really tolerance at all, or is it complicity?

    • #1
    • December 3, 2010 at 9:27 am
  2. Profile photo of Sisyphus Member

    Sorry, Claire. I’ve been following the Muslim issue in Europe and I’ve been predicting these kinds of explosions for years. The soft-peddling of the issue in the press, some really ugly criminal cases, the no go zones, the direct threats and the veiled threats, and gosh, look, it’s a decapitated archbishop. 

    The fact that the explosion here is in German is a bonus. The perfect language for a chewing out. 

    As for the cultural reference, I can find stuff in English that is far worse and associate it with whomever. LBJ’s mushroom cloud ad comes immediately to mind as the classic case.

    My only question is, does he have his facts straight? How many priests have been murdered in Turkey since 2008? My Turkish relations are Christian, and left 40 years ago. Churches and synagogues can’t get a permit to do building repairs in Turkey, much less build new. And they are on a track for EU membership? How would this be a good idea?

    This Austrian MP is no more Hitler than the Ricochet crowd are slaveholders. 

    • #2
    • December 3, 2010 at 9:33 am
  3. Profile photo of Kenneth Inactive

    Sorry, Claire, but the man is right.  And he’s right to be angry. 

    The fact that he’s being angry in German is irrelevant. 

    There should be more outrage like this – in Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, French.

    And English.

    • #3
    • December 3, 2010 at 9:54 am
  4. Profile photo of Okan Altiparmak Inactive

    While I essentially agree with much of his criticism, he has a few of his facts wrong.

    First, a priest er year is not murdered in Turkey. This is not to deny the horrendousness of the actual murders, but to show that the murders are not as widespread as he suggests.

    Secondly, Austria did ask for Turkish workers starting about fourty years ago, and Austria should also think about what Austria did wrong for the situation to get out of hand.

    Third, the Islamist situation is much worse in Europe than it is in Turkey. Hence, the Europeans should seriously re-consider their approach to the matter as well. Instead, the EU has been doing exactly the opposite and trying their best to force Turkey into the same erroneous approach.

    More importantly, this is the type of response that Islamists love and prey upon. It is a great case of being right and shooting yourself in the foot (unless Austria will crack down on it).

    I am very much with the Europeans here, but their approach and policies need to get smarter. Islamism is no joke.

    • #4
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:21 am
  5. Profile photo of flownover Inactive

    Political correctness kills.

    • #5
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:24 am
  6. Profile photo of Paladin Inactive

     I fail to see where the speaker is out of line. Perhaps some of his facts are wrong – I’m in no position to confirm or deny them. However, his main thrust seems to be that there is a demand for tolerance of everything Muslim, and there is not even a tenth of the outrage felt when it is a Catholic who is the victim. That is wrong, and he’s not going to stand for it. I say good for him, and how is he wrong?

    • #6
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:26 am
  7. Profile photo of Sister Inactive

    Interesting to watch this right after the new Klavan on the Culture video posted earlier by Diane Ellis.

    • #7
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:26 am
  8. Profile photo of nordman Inactive

    I too  must  agree with the Austrian MP.  

    I too am sick of the hypocrites and double standards. 

    The outrage is long overdue. 

    • #8
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:28 am
  9. Profile photo of Okan Altiparmak Inactive
    Robert McKay:  I fail to see where the speaker is out of line. Perhaps some of his facts are wrong – I’m in no position to confirm or deny them. However, his main thrust seems to be that there is a demand for tolerance of everything Muslim, and there is not even a tenth of the outrage felt when it is a Catholic who is the victim. That is wrong, and he’s not going to stand for it. I say good for him, and how is he wrong? · Dec 3 at 9:26am

    He is wrong not in his speech’s essence, but in the unintended opportunity he will end up providing the Islamists to deviously exploit the speech to rile up the uneducated Muslim masses he is talking about (meaning more support and even funding for Islamism).

    • #9
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:35 am
  10. Profile photo of Midget Faded Rattlesnake Moderator

    I get the feeling this video is more about Austria than Turkey.

    My Dad has several old business friends in Germany, and if Austria is anything like Germany, it likely has not been as wise about assimilating its Turkish immigrants as it should have been for many years now.

    As Okan put it:

    Okan Altiparmak:

    Austria did ask for Turkish workers starting about fourty years ago, and Austria should also think about what Austria did wrong for the situation to get out of hand.

    and

     the Islamist situation is much worse in Europe than it is in Turkey.

    Though the speaker lashes out at Turkey, I believe the real target of his frustration is his own government’s failed policy — failures within Austria and the EU. The speaker acknowledges internal failures, and my hope is that outbursts like his may help shock other European politicians into reconsidering their failed policies.

    • #10
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:37 am
  11. Profile photo of Kenneth Inactive

    This is the sort of outrage we should have heard from Republicans on the floor of Congress after the President of Mexico presumed, with a smirking President Obama in the background, to lecture us about our immigration policies. 

    • #11
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:44 am
  12. Profile photo of Paladin Inactive
    Okan Altiparmak

    He is wrong not in his speech’s essence, but in the unintended opportunity he will end up providing the Islamists to deviously exploit the speech to rile up the uneducated Muslim masses he is talking about (meaning more support and even funding for Islamism). · Dec 3 at 9:35am

    So we all have to censor ourselves for fear that the barbarians will take offense? No, nay, NEVER!

    When a speech as non-offensive as that really was, or some poorly drawn cartoons, lead to the masses rioting, it is the masses who have a problem and need to change.

    • #12
    • December 3, 2010 at 10:50 am
  13. Profile photo of Andrew Klavan Podcaster

    I have to say, Claire, I agree with most of the commenters here.  The historic resonance you mention is accidental and incidental–and can, in fact, be blithely ignored.  It would be a tragic joke if the horrible history of anti-semitism were used to defend the most anti-semitic movement of the age.  This MP is right and it’s not his fault he is, as our president would say, speaking Austrian.

    • #13
    • December 3, 2010 at 11:02 am
  14. Profile photo of nordman Inactive
    Robert McKay

    So we all have to censor ourselves for fear that the barbarians will take offense? No, nay, NEVER!

    When a speech as non-offensive as that really was, or some poorly drawn cartoons, lead to the masses rioting, it is the masses who have a problem and need to change.

    I’m  with you on that,  Robert.

    Islamic encroachment  seems to rely heavily upon a  ‘winning through intimidation’  approach.  Self censorship is not the proper response to this tactic.  

    • #14
    • December 3, 2010 at 11:03 am
  15. Profile photo of Lady Kurobara Inactive

    I love that video.  It is so refreshing to see real passion, for a change.  And in German!  What a rush.

    The main thrust of Herr Stadler’s speech is entirely correct.  Muslims everywhere are demanding special treatment at the expense of their host countries.  The cry in the street is practically a mantra:

    “You must never criticize Muslims in any way for any reason!  You must respect Islam as a religion of peace!  If you disagree, we’ll cut your —ing heads off!  And don’t even think about sending missionaries to our home countries.  We’ll cut their heads off as soon as they step off the plane.  Islam is a one-way street, and don’t you pigs forget it.”

    The Great Pushback, when it comes, will be violent in the extreme.  A lot of innocent people are going to be killed.  And, by “innocent people,” I mean moderate Muslims who lacked the will to oppose their radical brethren.

    Thank you for the bracing video, Claire.  It really perked me up.

    Oh.

    I see…

    That was not your intention.

    Never mind.

    • #15
    • December 3, 2010 at 11:28 am
  16. Profile photo of Anthony Aristar Inactive

    Yes, there is a historical resonance here… the man has the same flare and the same rhetorical power that Hitler had.  He may even be wrong in a few of his details.  It doesn’t matter, I’m afraid… Nothing can change the fact that he is absolutely right in the thrust of his speech.  The civilization we so cherish is walking down a path to suicide, a path defined by platitudes and images of a mutual tolerance that can exist only in an idealist’s mind.

    • #16
    • December 3, 2010 at 11:37 am
  17. Profile photo of Cas Balicki Inactive

    What he said!

    • #17
    • December 3, 2010 at 11:41 am
  18. Profile photo of katievs Inactive
    So, while Christians are being massacred on a daily basis… – you’re worried about a violent backlash from aggrieved Europeans?

    Yes.  

    Worries about present evils don’t preclude worries about impending evils.

    I suppose a feminized modern West that believes violence is never the answer might shrink to think that appeasement is suicide.  

    In my sense of the term, violence (which always begets more violence) never is the answer, though military force may be.  I am not a pacifist. I despise appeasement.

    A person who kills another person in self-defense, or to protect someone else, is not committing violence. 

    There is a difference between standing up against injustice and inciting rage.  In philosophy it’s absolute.  In practice, it can be a fine line.

    Reagan was straight-forward, truth-speaking, resolute in the face of terrible threats. Impossible to imagine him speaking like this  man.  

    • #18
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:07 am
  19. Profile photo of Claire Berlinski, Ed. Editor
    Claire Berlinski, Ed. Post author

    I didn’t know who he was when I saw this. I looked him up, and wasn’t surprised to discover that he’s credibly associated with Holocaust denial. He is known for comments such as, “In 1945 Austria was “supposedly liberated from fascism and tyranny by the occupying powers.” He hangs out with Neturei Karta crackpots–the anti-Zionist rabbis who declare Israel an abomination.

    If you think this man is your friend in fighting for the values you hold dear, you are terribly, dangerously naive. He is a neo-Nazi. His close political associates deny there were gas chambers in the Third Reich.  He would be a real Nazi but for the fact that saying that would get him arrested. Austrian Jews are terrified of him.

    If you doubt that ideology has life left in it in Europe, you simply haven’t been paying attention. I’m a Jew who has been living in Turkey for five years. The stench coming off this man–even through the Internet–is as bad or worse as anything I’ve ever seen here.

    • #19
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:23 am
  20. Profile photo of nordman Inactive
    katievs

    Reagan was straight-forward, truth-speaking, resolute in the face of terrible threats. Impossible to imagine him speaking like this  man. 

    I can’t  recall Reagan ever referring to the Soviet Union as  an ‘Empire of Peace’ .

    Reagan had a different style of making his point,  but the substance was the same:  No Concessions.

    • #20
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:26 am
  21. Profile photo of Kenneth Inactive
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    If you think this man is your friend in fighting for the values you hold dear, you are terribly, dangerously naive. He is a neo-Nazi. His close political associates deny there were gas chambers in the Third Reich.  He would be a real Nazi but for the fact that saying that would get him arrested. Austrian Jews are terrified of him.

    If you doubt that ideology has life left in it in Europe, you simply haven’t been paying attention. I’m a Jew who has been living in Turkey for five years. The stench coming off this man–even through the Internet–is as bad or worse as anything I’ve ever seen here. · Dec 3 at 12:23pm

    In which case, he simply demonstrates the truth that when cowardly leaders will not stand forthrightly against threats to a people, it opens the way for extremists to exploit the situation. 

    Nevertheless, what he said in the video clip rings true and, as others here have noted, resonates. 

    • #21
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:31 am
  22. Profile photo of nordman Inactive
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    If you think this man is your friend in fighting for the values you hold dear, you are terribly, dangerously naive. He is a neo-Nazi. His close political associates deny there were gas chambers in the Third Reich. He would be a real Nazi but for the fact that saying that would get him arrested. Austrian Jews are terrified of him.

    Dec 3 at 12:23pm

    But how does that change the point he is making?

    If it is true, it is true.

    If the man really is all that horrible,; perhaps the moderate Austrian politicians need to take the concerns of the populace more seriously; – an ‘early warning system’ if you will. 

    A distinction can be drawn between the message and the messenger.   If it takes a neo-Nazi to speak the truth,  Austrian politicians should be even more ashamed of themselves.        

    • #22
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:34 am
  23. Profile photo of katievs Inactive
    nordman

    katievs

    Reagan was straight-forward, truth-speaking, resolute in the face of terrible threats. Impossible to imagine him speaking like this  man. 

    I can’t  recall Reagan ever referring to the Soviet Union as  an ‘Empire of Peace’ .

    Reagan had a different style of making his point,  but the substance was the same:  No Concessions. · Dec 3 at 12:26pm

    There’s much more in that man’s moral intention than “no concessions”.

    He’s no Reagan.

    • #23
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:37 am
  24. Profile photo of Aaron Miller Member

    Alright, Claire. So this guy’s a Nazi sympathizer. And that obviously should give one pause… that such a person could be elected to parliament.

    But I’m not sure I understand why you posted this video without prefacing it with that background information. What is it about the speech that, by itself, disturbs you?

    • #24
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:38 am
  25. Profile photo of nordman Inactive
    katievs

    nordman

    katievs

    Reagan was straight-forward, truth-speaking, resolute in the face of terrible threats. Impossible to imagine him speaking like this  man. 

    I can’t  recall Reagan ever referring to the Soviet Union as  an ‘Empire of Peace’ .

    Reagan had a different style of making his point,  but the substance was the same:  No Concessions. · Dec 3 at 12:26pm

    There’s much more in that man’s moral intention than “no concessions”.

    He’s no Reagan. · Dec 3 at 12:37pm

    True,  he’s not.  

    The only thing this MP has in  common with Reagan  is that he is  standing his  ground   – which sets him apart from most of his cowering political peers.  

    • #25
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:47 am
  26. Profile photo of katievs Inactive
    Kenneth

    In which case, he simply demonstrates the truth that when cowardly leaders will not stand forthrightly against threats to a people, it opens the way for extremists to exploit the situation. 

    Exactly my earlier point, Kenneth.

    • #26
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:53 am
  27. Profile photo of FeliciaB Inactive
    nordman

    katievs

    nordman

    katievs

    Reagan was straight-forward, truth-speaking, resolute in the face of terrible threats. Impossible to imagine him speaking like this  man. 

    I can’t  recall Reagan ever referring to the Soviet Union as  an ‘Empire of Peace’ .

    Reagan had a different style of making his point,  but the substance was the same:  No Concessions. · Dec 3 at 12:26pm

    There’s much more in that man’s moral intention than “no concessions”.

    He’s no Reagan. · Dec 3 at 12:37pm

    True,  he’s not.  

    The only thing this MP has in  common with Reagan  is that he is  standing his  ground   – which sets him apart from most of his cowering political peers.   · Dec 3 at 12:47pm

    Could one go so far as to say, “he’s speaking truth to power?”

    I think it’s pretty nasty that Stadler denies any death camps were in operation within the borders of Austria.  Maybe someone should stand up in the Austrian Parliament and speak that truth to power.  

    That said, even lunatics can be correct sometimes.What he said about Islamists murdering Christians (he left out other religions) is true.  The hypocrisy is true. 

    • #27
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:56 am
  28. Profile photo of katievs Inactive
    The only thing this MP has in  common with Reagan  is that he is  standing his  ground   – which sets him apart from most of his cowering political peers.   · Dec 3 at 12:47pm

    Yes, but while he’s doing it he is emitting a stench of violence and racial hatred.

    Reagan’s stand against evil was a stand on true and universal values.  He called the rest of us to join him in a noble cause.  He appealed to what was highest and best in us.  

    This man is appealing to something else altogether.

    • #28
    • December 4, 2010 at 1:58 am
  29. Profile photo of Duane Oyen Member

    There are a lot of facts and true stories- also sometimes exaggerations- that we can express.  But the essential blunt truth of something does not mean that it is always wise to give vent to it. 

    This is almost exactly the same stupid behavior we engage in constantly on the Right regarding immigration, when we blame all of our ills on illegal immigration (problematic as it is, and as much as meaningful reform and border security need to be addressed).

    You can do smart things to advance your cause without being unnecessarily inflammatory.  This man could be 100% right in every word he utters, and still be stupid and counterproductive, as I believe he is, for the manner and forum in which he says it.  Mouthiness is not progress, no matter how frustrated we are by political correctness.

    People who here love the bunt venting displayed would never dream of such lack of discretion in a far less significant situation- such as telling one’s wife that she looks fat from the back in her new jeans.

    It’s less what you say that counts than how you say it- and what you actually do about it.  This is counterproductive.

    • #29
    • December 4, 2010 at 2:08 am
  30. Profile photo of katievs Inactive
    It’s less what you say that counts than how you say it- and what you actually do about it.  This is counterproductive. · Dec 3 at 1:08pm

    Also, why you say it.  What are you hoping to achieve?  Are you trying to motivate fellow citizens toward truth and good, or are you trying to whip up a crowd?

    • #30
    • December 4, 2010 at 2:16 am
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