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  1. Profile photo of Mike LaRoche Thatcher

    I’m quite happy to see that bullfighting is still alive and prospering in Spain – and in southern France – despite the Catalan ban.  Last time I mentioned this a minor flame-war erupted, but what the hell: one of my most treasured memories was when on a trip to Madrid several years ago, I attended a bullfight during the Festival of San Isidro at the Plaza de Toros de Las Ventas.  Sitting in the stands and smoking a Montecristo, the atmosphere brought to life the stories of Ernest Hemingway and the exploits of such legendary matadors as Manuel Benítez Pérez (“El Cordobés”).

    It was one of those moments I’ll remember for the rest of my life, and I’m heartened to know that most Spaniards continue to revere and defend this unique aspect of their culture.  According to rumor, King Juan Carlos has said that if the European Union ever bans bullfighting, he will push for Spain to leave the European Union.

    ¡Viva la corrida de toros!

    • #1
    • March 1, 2011 at 2:06 am
  2. Profile photo of Foxman Inactive

    Morally, I see no difference between bull fighting and dog fighting.

    • #2
    • March 1, 2011 at 5:28 am
  3. Profile photo of MLH Member
    MLH

    Does Tijuana still have a ring, out by the sea?

    • #3
    • March 1, 2011 at 6:28 am
  4. Profile photo of Stan Hjerleid Thatcher

     I agree with Foxman. They bring in a fresh bull and then torment him with guys on horses enclosed in some protective box.  When the bull is tiring and with picadillos sticking in him, finally enter the matador.  I say bring the matador out while the bull is fresh.

    • #4
    • March 1, 2011 at 7:11 am
  5. Profile photo of Clem Comly Inactive

     Hannan is a British citizen who is a member of the European Parliament.  Per Wikipedia he is not a member of  British Parliament.

    • #5
    • March 1, 2011 at 7:23 am
  6. Profile photo of Andrea Ryan Member

    <Double post.>

    • #6
    • March 1, 2011 at 8:18 am
  7. Profile photo of Andrea Ryan Member

    I have no problem with bullfighting. &nbsp;It’s a large aspect of the culture in some parts of the world and I find it exciting to watch.

    • #7
    • March 1, 2011 at 8:19 am
  8. Profile photo of Foxman Inactive

    &nbsp;Chicken fights and dog fights are a large part of some cultures around the world and some subcultures in the US.&nbsp; Torturing and killing animals for entertainment is heinous and we should reject it.

    • #8
    • March 1, 2011 at 10:50 am
  9. Profile photo of Kenneth Inactive

    What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement.

    • #9
    • March 1, 2011 at 11:43 am
  10. Profile photo of Mike LaRoche Thatcher
    Andrea Ryan: I have no problem with bullfighting. &nbsp;It’s a large aspect of the culture in some parts of the world and I find it exciting to watch. · Mar 1 at 7:19am

    Exactly, Andrea.&nbsp; Bullfighting is an integral part of traditional Spanish culture and the world would be a poorer place without it.&nbsp; The bullfight is an artistic, almost sacred event.&nbsp; As Ernest Hemingway wrote in Death in the Afternoon, “Bullfighting is the only art in which the artist is in danger of death and in which the degree of brilliance in the performance is left to the fighter’s honor.”

    • #10
    • March 2, 2011 at 2:10 am
  11. Profile photo of Andrea Ryan Member
    Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am

    Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight.

    • #11
    • March 2, 2011 at 2:36 am
  12. Profile photo of Kenneth Inactive
    Andrea Ryan
    &nbsp;Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am&nbsp;
    &nbsp;Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight. · Mar 1 at 1:36p

    &nbsp;One wonders how the “aficionados” of the “sport” would feel about someone coming to their home and torturing their domestic pets with barbeque skewers before dispatching them with a meat cleaver.

    As for Palin, papering over the slaughter of a reindeer in order to bolster her Grizzly Mama creds for a viewing audience by claiming that she did it to fill her family’s freezer speaks for itself.&nbsp; My guess is that reindeer’s carcass didn’t provide the margin between starvation and bounty for the Palin family.

    • #12
    • March 2, 2011 at 2:49 am
  13. Profile photo of Mike LaRoche Thatcher
    Andrea Ryan
    Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am
    Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight. · Mar 1 at 1:36pm

    You’ve read my mind, Andrea.&nbsp; Dionysius himself could not have conceived of a more pleasurable event.

    • #13
    • March 2, 2011 at 3:07 am
  14. Profile photo of Andrea Ryan Member
    Kenneth

    Andrea Ryan

    &nbsp;Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am&nbsp;
    Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight. · Mar 1 at 1:36p
    &nbsp;One wonders how the “aficionados” of the “sport” would feel about someone coming to their home and torturing their domestic pets with barbeque skewers before dispatching them with a meat cleaver.

    As for Palin, papering over the slaughter of a reindeer in order to bolster her Grizzly Mama creds for a viewing audience by claiming that she did it to fill her family’s freezer speaks for itself.&nbsp; My guess is that reindeer’s carcass didn’t provide the margin between starvation and bounty for the Palin family. · Mar 1 at 1:49pm

    Edited on Mar 01 at 02:04 pm

    Lighten up, Francis. &nbsp;I was just kidding.

    • #15
    • March 2, 2011 at 3:29 am
  15. Profile photo of flownover Inactive
    Andrea Ryan: <Double post.> · Mar 1 at 7:18am

    Edited on Mar 01 at 07:33 am

    <I liked that and I’ll double that>

    • #18
    • March 2, 2011 at 5:41 am
  16. Profile photo of Andrea Ryan Member
    flownover

    Andrea Ryan: <Flownover promised me a bullshot.>

    <I liked that and I’ll double that> · Mar 1 at 4:41pm

    Oh, good! &nbsp;I get two.

    • #19
    • March 2, 2011 at 7:43 am
  17. Profile photo of Foxman Inactive

    It seems to me that we forget the Judeo part of our Judeo-Christian tradition when it suits us.&nbsp; Look at the rules for Kosher slaughter.&nbsp; It is obvious that they are based in part on minimizing the pain of the slaughtered animal.&nbsp; We were released from the restrictions on the type of food we eat but I do not think we should be released from the concept of minimizing the suffering of the animal.

    • #20
    • March 2, 2011 at 8:37 am
  18. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author
    MLH: Does Tijuana still have a ring, out by the sea? · Mar 1 at 5:28am

    This picture was taking of me fighting right after September 11, 2001, during a grim period for traveling across the border. It’s still thriving. The downtown ring was torn down about 3 years ago sadly.&nbsp;

    • #21
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:11 am
  19. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author
    Foxman: Morally, I see no difference between bull fighting and dog fighting. · Mar 1 at 4:28am

    Me neither, I just hate the taste of dog burgers, so I only support bullfighting.&nbsp;

    • #22
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:13 am
  20. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author

    done correctly, there is nothing more dangerous for a human than to fight in the ring with a brave bull. Matadors die and are maimed each year. Most come from nothing so they are extra brave with nothing to lose. We could change the rules so that more human’s die. That is what some people will always advocate but I don’t think they know what they’re saying. It’s just a knee jerk reaction to something they don’t understand.&nbsp;

    All livestock will eventually die, some will be tortured in pens, fed chemicals, castrated with no anesthesia and probably be killed before reaching age two. Why kill humans? Why advocate it? Because they deserve it? Really?

    The fighting bulls live to be 4 years old, always surrounded by family as they grow in paradise completely separated from human contact.&nbsp;

    Stan Hjerleid: &nbsp;I agree with Foxman. They bring in a fresh bull and then torment him with guys on horses enclosed in some protective box.&nbsp; When the bull is tiring and with picadillos sticking in him, finally enter the matador.&nbsp; I say bring the matador out while the bull is fresh. · Mar 1 at 6:11am
    • #23
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:21 am
  21. Profile photo of Sisyphus Member
    Andrea Ryan
    Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am
    Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight. · Mar 1 at 1:36pm

    First the song link and now this. You really are the Queen of Darkness, Andrea, admit it.

    • #24
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:29 am
  22. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author

    All livestock will eventually die and be eaten. Could we change the rules of this spectacle so that more humans die? We could. But should we? Really? Because they deserve it? Really. Doesn’t sound too well thought out.&nbsp;

    The burgers we eat are made from animals tortured by small pens, chemicals, being separated from their family, castration w/o anesthesia, and they live to be a ripe 1.5 or two yrs.

    Fighting bulls live to be four, in paradise, surrounded by family, separated from all human contact. &nbsp;I used to think it was unnecessarily cruel, but I was ignorant. There’s nothing more dangerous to perform, or more amazing and culturally rich to experience than a good bullfight. Learn about it with an open mind, see it, and be richer.&nbsp;

    Stan Hjerleid: &nbsp;I agree with Foxman. They bring in a fresh bull and then torment him with guys on horses enclosed in some protective box.&nbsp; When the bull is tiring and with picadillos sticking in him, finally enter the matador.&nbsp; I say bring the matador out while the bull is fresh. · Mar 1 at 6:11am
    • #25
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:31 am
  23. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author
    Clem Comly: &nbsp;Hannan is a British citizen who is a member of the European Parliament.&nbsp; Per Wikipedia he is not a member of&nbsp;&nbsp;British Parliament. · Mar 1 at 6:23am

    No wonder I couldn’t find a picture of him in front of a decent chair.&nbsp;

    • #26
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:33 am
  24. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author

    As long as they don’t swim in my toilet

    Kenneth

    Andrea Ryan

    &nbsp;Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am&nbsp;
    Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight. · Mar 1 at 1:36p
    &nbsp;One wonders how the “aficionados” of the “sport” would feel about someone coming to their home and torturing their domestic pets with barbeque skewers before dispatching them with a meat cleaver.

    As for Palin, papering over the slaughter of a reindeer in order to bolster her Grizzly Mama creds for a viewing audience by claiming that she did it to fill her family’s freezer speaks for itself.&nbsp; My guess is that reindeer’s carcass didn’t provide the margin between starvation and bounty for the Palin family. · Mar 1 at 1:49pm

    Edited on Mar 01 at 02:04 pm

    • #27
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:36 am
  25. Profile photo of Joe Escalante Contributor
    Joe Escalante Post author
    Foxman: &nbsp;Chicken fights and dog fights are a large part of some cultures around the world and some subcultures in the US.&nbsp; Torturing and killing animals for entertainment is heinous and we should reject it. · Mar 1 at 9:50am

    I disagree. I don’t know of any cultures where chicken fights and dog fights play a &nbsp;large part. Chicken fights are not a large part of Mexican culture. They are a large part of Mexican stereotypes, but not a large part of the culture. Dog fights? That’s an underground criminal enterprise. Bullfighting is a giant respectable and heavily taxed &nbsp;industry that should not be rejected at all. It creates commerce and tons and tons of happy bulls. Granted the last 20 minutes of their lives are not as fun as the first 4 years, but on balance, they would all choose to be fighting bulls rather than American livestock.&nbsp;

    • #28
    • March 2, 2011 at 11:46 am
  26. Profile photo of Mike LaRoche Thatcher
    Sisyphus

    Andrea Ryan

    Kenneth: What a manly thing it must be to sit in the stands and watch an animal be tormented and murdered for your amusement. · Mar 1 at 10:43am
    Admit it, Kenneth. &nbsp;There’s nothing more wonderful than hanging out with Sarah Palin and watching a good bullfight. · Mar 1 at 1:36pm
    First the song link and now this. You really are the Queen of Darkness, Andrea, admit it. · Mar 1 at 10:29pm

    Indeed, Elvira’s got nothing on our Andrea!

    • #29
    • March 2, 2011 at 12:15 pm
  27. Profile photo of MLH Member
    MLH

    &nbsp;Foxman,

    Somewhat unrelated but, did you see the HBO biopic on Temple Grandin? She has done alot of work on how&nbsp;cattle are&nbsp;treated (for vaccinations, branding, etc) and slaughtered to be less stressful for the animal. Very interesting. And Clare Danes is one of my favorite actresses.

    • #30
    • March 3, 2011 at 7:08 am
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