Building Collapse in Miami

 

How does this happen in the United States of America?

A 12-story oceanfront condo tower partially collapsed early Thursday morning in the town of Surfside, spurring a massive search-and-rescue effort with dozens of rescue crews from across Miami-Dade and Broward counties.

Reinforced concrete should not fail this way. Clearly, something was not done right, either when it was built, or to maintain it.

I fear there is more of this in our future, as the left continues is march through everything as it destroys all standards.

Prayers for these people and their families.

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  1. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):
    charge

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):
    And Texans have received pleas to raise their thermostats and help conserve energy because the energy grid might collapse otherwise. And we’re only in June. The worst is yet to come temperature-wise.

    And California is begging EV users to charge during off peak hours because the grid cant handle it…….

    Rationing is part of the plan.

    I keep looking for some logic to it and I can’t come up with anything else. This effectively means de-growth and we aren’t in a position to do that at all. Too much debt and too many unfunded liabilities.

    There is some logic in it, if you start with their assumptions: America is bad, Western civilization is bad, industrial civilization is bad, individual liberty is bad.

    Then why do they keep pushing people toward electric cars and other “improvements?”

    Power and control. Consider the motives of the various factions, the eco-fanatics, the left, and the tech oligarchs.

    • #91
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):
    charge

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):
    And Texans have received pleas to raise their thermostats and help conserve energy because the energy grid might collapse otherwise. And we’re only in June. The worst is yet to come temperature-wise.

    And California is begging EV users to charge during off peak hours because the grid cant handle it…….

    Rationing is part of the plan.

    I keep looking for some logic to it and I can’t come up with anything else. This effectively means de-growth and we aren’t in a position to do that at all. Too much debt and too many unfunded liabilities.

    There is some logic in it, if you start with their assumptions: America is bad, Western civilization is bad, industrial civilization is bad, individual liberty is bad.

    Then why do they keep pushing people toward electric cars and other “improvements?”

    Power and control. Consider the motives of the various factions, the eco-fanatics, the left, and the tech oligarchs.

    I made a similar point a while back in the Conservative Migration group:  If Biden et al cause inflation etc that increases interest rates while also causing a housing crash that means home-owners lose the value of the homes they own, that makes it basically impossible for people to relocate from a blue area to a red area.

    • #92
  3. TempTime Member
    TempTime
    @TempTime

    Annefy (View Comment):
    I was reminded of a bridge (walkway?) that collapsed a few years ago

    Are you thinking of the FIU (Florida International University) in Miami walkway-bridge that collapsed?  If so, I’m just glad they haven’t tried to ‘re-do’ that project.  It was always a little anxiety producing driving under it.  BTW, if you lived here you would have noticed the ‘Cuban Network’ connection to that project as well.

    All that said, I don’t think the collapse of the walkway bridge or the condomium building have any direct connection to the Left, the Right, or any particular demographic, or even the “necessary-evil” government.    

    BTW, from the get-go, we found the reporting on the catastrophe down here in Miami to be  …  curious.   

    The first time the video of the collapse was shown, I had the same question as many others:  Was that a controlled demolition?   I personally have never seen a building do a ‘pancake’ collapse that wasn’t a controlled demolition (yes, I known, just because I haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.)   Just saying, it looked like an all-at-once, very balanced, even collapse;  Does that happen “naturally”.  I’m not an engineer, so I don’t know; but I would love to have a construction, engineer, or similarly knowledgeable person comment on the collapse.  

    Watching the non-stop ‘coverage’ — can’t call it news — down here, is mostly just, frustrating.  BTW,  the guideline I use when watching “news broadcasts”, is, when they start adding ‘background music”, you can be sure “the reporting” has transitioned from ‘news’ to ‘narrative’.   And it’s already started locally.

    It’s crazy.  Mid-day was the first time I noticed that ‘music’ was being introduced here and there in the broadcasts.  For visual cues, female news anchors’ make-up has been toned-down/subdued, their hair is a bit less ‘perfect’, and voices have ‘softened’.  It’s weird to watch. 

    I find it absolutely disturbing that even during this very tragic event, the need to control the ‘people’ is unremitting.  They seem to think it is their right? obligation? to decide the people’s reponse/processing — emotionally, and otherwise and to ‘direct’ it.

    And, the worst is coming out of some people/organizations.  The money vacuumers and emotion strummers have come out in full force.  People still in shock and traumatized are being exploited to encourage ‘ money ‘ flow.  I really feel sad about that, so …

    … just praying for them all.

    P.S.  @percival, I also wondered if it was a ‘sink-hole’ because of the way it happened.  Don’t know if it is true, but someone down here said the builders must dig down to the rock layer beneath the underground aquifers when they build these big buildings.  Who knows.  Even if they do, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a sink hole.

     

    • #93
  4. TempTime Member
    TempTime
    @TempTime

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    According to this report from the Miami Herald,

    Fact:  The Mia. Herald newspaper is a McClatchy Company owned.   

    Opinion:  An agenda sheet; think s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-m.   And proud of it.  I remember back in the Seventies when the Herald first proudly announced that they had decided they were not just a newspaper, but were in fact “community members” who had a responsibility to direct the public narrative.   To make decisions — regards what to report/not report; to control information the public has access to — and, to do so in words and manner that would assist in forming and directing public opinion for the greater good.  (Yes, my words are a paraphrase but they accurately convey what the Editors said).   It is wise to read the Herald with with eyes wide open/brain engaged.  Always ask yourself,  what agenda are they pushing? ‘cuz they don’t ever just ‘report’;  what they do report, is always done fully colored.  

      

    • #94
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    TempTime (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    According to this report from the Miami Herald,

    Fact: The Mia. Herald newspaper is a McClatchy Company owned.

    Opinion: An agenda sheet; think s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-m. And proud of it. I remember back in the Seventies when the Herald first proudly announced that they had decided they were not just a newspaper, but were in fact “community members” who had a responsibility to direct the public narrative. To make decisions — regards what to report/not report; to control information the public has access to — and, to do so in words and manner that would assist in forming and directing public opinion for the greater good. (Yes, my words are a paraphrase but they accurately convey what the Editors said). It is wise to read the Herald with with eyes wide open/brain engaged. Always ask yourself, what agenda are they pushing? ‘cuz they don’t ever just ‘report’; what they do report, is always done fully colored.

    Good advice regarding any MSM source, really.

    • #95
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    TempTime (View Comment):
    P.S.  @percival, I also wondered if it was a ‘sink-hole’ because of the way it happened.  Don’t know if it is true, but someone down here said the builders must dig down to the rock layer beneath the underground aquifers when they build these big buildings.  Who knows.  Even if they do, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a sink hole.

    Sinkholes are frequently caused by rock giving way because some rock is water-soluble, The rock on which some of the support of the surface depends just dissolves. Things can change, even under your very feet.

    (from Upscree)

    I’ve read some things that indicate that there has been subsidence in the area of the building for a while now.

    As far as the suddenness of the collapse, once one load support fails, the other supports have to bear additional load. They may be able to handle it (and cracks or buckling suddenly appears) or they can’t, and they fail too. It looks like dominoes collapsing because that is exactly what it is.

    When the tie girder on one side of the Hernando de Soto Bridge failed, the stress it was bearing was relying entirely on the tie girder on the other side. Imagine if you strung an archery bow with two bowstrings instead of one. The bow pulls on either end of both strings. If you cut one string, the other string is strong enough to hold the ends of the bow together – or it isn’t, and it snaps.

    It might not have been a sinkhole, but land does subside. The reason the John Hancock Building in Chicago was named the John Hancock Building was because it was found that the supports that the building was going to rely on were in fact sinking somewhat. This was during construction. The problem could still be fixed, but the construction company went bankrupt and the John Hancock Insurance Company found themselves the new owners of a Chicago skyscraper that wasn’t quite finished.

    • #96
  7. Bob W Member
    Bob W
    @BobW

    The Millennium Tower in SF comes to mind. It is a 645 ft. residential building, built in 2009 and has sank 18in in one corner resulting in a 14 in tilt. It has been an ongoing legal and engineering nightmare.  Looks like a proposed $100 million fix is going to get underway. The building in Fl. was showing  mm/yr sinking while this tower was sinking inches per year!

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/SF-s-sinking-Millenium-Tower-to-finally-get-fixed-15439863.php#

    • #97
  8. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Document dump:

    https://townofsurfsidefl.gov/departments-services/town-clerk/champlain-towers-public-records-documents

     

    • #98
  9. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    philo (View Comment): …I suspect the investigation of this one will turn up some interesting failures. …

    It begins:

    Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ to Florida Condo Building That Collapsed

    In 2018, a consulting engineer wrote a report detailing “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck as well as “abundant” cracking in supporting columns at the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami. …

    … “Abundant cracking and spalling of varying degrees was observed in the concrete columns, beams, and walls,” Frank Morabito, author of the report, wrote.

    The report added that “failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially.” The problem, he said, was that the waterproofing was laid on a concrete slab that was flat, not sloped in a way that would allow water to run off, an issue he called a “major error” in the original design. The replacement would be “extremely expensive,” he warned, and cause a major disturbance to residents.

    It’s really looking bad for building management at this point. They apparently tried patching some of the concrete but Morabito said it only made the cracking and spalling problems worse. …

    • #99
  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    philo (View Comment):

    philo (View Comment): …I suspect the investigation of this one will turn up some interesting failures. …

    It begins:

    Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ to Florida Condo Building That Collapsed

    In 2018, a consulting engineer wrote a report detailing “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck as well as “abundant” cracking in supporting columns at the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami. …

    … “Abundant cracking and spalling of varying degrees was observed in the concrete columns, beams, and walls,” Frank Morabito, author of the report, wrote.

    The report added that “failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially.” The problem, he said, was that the waterproofing was laid on a concrete slab that was flat, not sloped in a way that would allow water to run off, an issue he called a “major error” in the original design. The replacement would be “extremely expensive,” he warned, and cause a major disturbance to residents.

    It’s really looking bad for building management at this point. They apparently tried patching some of the concrete but Morabito said it only made the cracking and spalling problems worse. …

    When I read that the settling had been noticed “back in the 90’s,” I figured that we’d be getting something like this.

    • #100
  11. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    First (?) lawsuit of many:

    https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/champlain-towers-south-lawsuit-1624622876.pdf

    • #101
  12. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):
    charge

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):
    And Texans have received pleas to raise their thermostats and help conserve energy because the energy grid might collapse otherwise. And we’re only in June. The worst is yet to come temperature-wise.

    And California is begging EV users to charge during off peak hours because the grid cant handle it…….

    Rationing is part of the plan.

    I keep looking for some logic to it and I can’t come up with anything else. This effectively means de-growth and we aren’t in a position to do that at all. Too much debt and too many unfunded liabilities.

    There is some logic in it, if you start with their assumptions: America is bad, Western civilization is bad, industrial civilization is bad, individual liberty is bad.

    Then why do they keep pushing people toward electric cars and other “improvements?”

    Ask cui bono?

    Could the answer be: current technology relies on materials whose production is largely owned or controlled by the CCP?

    • #102
  13. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Weeping (View Comment):
    And Texans have received pleas to raise their thermostats and help conserve energy because the energy grid might collapse otherwise. And we’re only in June. The worst is yet to come temperature-wise.

    We’re going to lose Texas, aren’t we? I didn’t know the windmill situation was as bad as it is there until this recent blackout threat. If the progressive infestation has hollowed out their power grid then the situation is worse than it appears from the outside. 

    • #103
  14. Weeping Inactive
    Weeping
    @Weeping

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Weeping (View Comment):
    And Texans have received pleas to raise their thermostats and help conserve energy because the energy grid might collapse otherwise. And we’re only in June. The worst is yet to come temperature-wise.

    We’re going to lose Texas, aren’t we? I didn’t know the windmill situation was as bad as it is there until this recent blackout threat. If the progressive infestation has hollowed out their power grid then the situation is worse than it appears from the outside.

    I hope not. But I wonder sometimes. Although I think I read somewhere that there are/were a lot of financial incentives involved in the desicion, so it may not be a “progressive infestation” so much as simple greed. I have no idea.

    • #104
  15. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Apparently not a sinkhole. Foundation appears intact:

    https://twitter.com/senpizzo/status/1417657635709636613/photo/1

    • #105
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    ctlaw (View Comment):

    Apparently not a sinkhole. Foundation appears intact:

    https://twitter.com/senpizzo/status/1417657635709636613/photo/1

    So, incompetency is what happened. 

    If that is proved out, will all the people hating on me for this threat apologize?

    Of course not. 

    • #106
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