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  1. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    WoW, thats fantastic! I never heard of this NEPA thing before… Why not repeal it in stimulus bills? Any project being funded as a stimulus project, can ignore NEPA?

    • #1
  2. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    This was essentially what much of the Civil War was about; whether the government should be involved in “infrastructure” projects at all.  Funding such projects caused the collapse of the Whig party.

     Henry Clay’s “American System,” for which Lincoln was the new standard bearer, was for protectionist tariffs, taxpayer subsidies for railroads and other corporations, (“internal improvements”), and the nationalization of the money supply to help pay for the subsidies.

    “Subsidized internal improvements were such a universal disaster that when Wisconsin and Minnesota entered the Union in 1848 and 1858, their state constitutions prohibited grants and even loans to private companies.  In Iowa the state courts held that local government aid to private companies was unconstitutional.  By 1861 state subsidies for internal improvements were forbidden by constitutional amendement in Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland Minnesota, Iowa, Kentucky, Kansas, California, and Oregon.  West Virginia, Nevada, and Nebraska entered the Union in the 1860’s with similar prohibitions.  By 1875, Massachusetts was the only state that still permitted state subsidies for internal improvements.”  Thomas J. Dilorenzo, “The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War.

    The Great Northern Railroad was made without a dime of government help and was built quickly and profitable quickly.  The subsidized railroads, unsurprisingly, were better at enriching the builders than in being profitable or quickly available. Elon Musk is making the Great Northern Railroad of his day.  Musk’s efforts aren’t without government contracts, but I think it’s safe to say that even without getting government contracts, SpaceX is going to be on the moon and Mars whether the government is involved or not.

     

    • #2
  3. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Another Nixon mistake 

    He was horrible on the economy and regulations 

     the 70s were horrible

    • #3
  4. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    What a great YouTube channel! Its sad to me that these videos all have less than 1k views…

    • #4
  5. Troy Senik Contributor
    Troy Senik
    @TroySenik

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    What a great YouTube channel! Its sad to me that these videos all have less than 1k views…

    You’re very kind. The good news is YouTube is an outlier and we haven’t put any serious resources into it yet. We’ve had tremendous success with Facebook and Twitter, which has allowed us to rack up over 1.5 million views in the less than three months since we started. We’ve also done very well with direct email subscriptions (do it if you haven’t already!).

    But, of course, if you really want to help … y’all are always welcome to share with everyone you know. 

    • #5
  6. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    What a great YouTube channel! Its sad to me that these videos all have less than 1k views…

    You’re very kind. The good news is YouTube is an outlier and we haven’t put any serious resources into it yet. We’ve had tremendous success with Facebook and Twitter, which has allowed us to rack up over 1.5 million views in the less than three months since we started. We’ve also done very well with direct email subscriptions (do it if you haven’t already!).

    But, of course, if you really want to help … y’all are always welcome to share with everyone you know.

    Ive already shared it on facebook – for a more mixed audience.

    I liked the video just presented facts and didnt really advocate any particular position on the law…

    That’s the kind of video that should be a segment on 60 minutes.

    • #6
  7. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Troy Senik (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    What a great YouTube channel! Its sad to me that these videos all have less than 1k views…

    You’re very kind. The good news is YouTube is an outlier and we haven’t put any serious resources into it yet. We’ve had tremendous success with Facebook and Twitter, which has allowed us to rack up over 1.5 million views in the less than three months since we started. We’ve also done very well with direct email subscriptions (do it if you haven’t already!).

    But, of course, if you really want to help … y’all are always welcome to share with everyone you know.

    Have you tried to get on places like Daily Wire and/or the Blaze – both will like and publish these videos 

    • #7
  8. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    Great Post!

    To add another example, the Oakland Bay Bridge, a very key link, an almost indispensable link actually ,  in the San Francisco Bay road infrastructure which links Oakland to the Silicon Valley area  over the San Francisco Bay, only took 23 years to rebuild after the Loma Pietra quake of 1989.

    • #8
  9. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Great Post!

    To add another example, the Oakland Bay Bridge, a very key link, an almost indispensable link actually , in the San Francisco Bay road infrastructure which links Oakland to the Silicon Valley area over the San Francisco Bay, only took 23 years to rebuild after the Loma Pietra quake of 1989.

    This bridge was first proposed by Emperor Norton. Who sounds like quite the character…

    • #9
  10. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Great Post!

    To add another example, the Oakland Bay Bridge, a very key link, an almost indispensable link actually , in the San Francisco Bay road infrastructure which links Oakland to the Silicon Valley area over the San Francisco Bay, only took 23 years to rebuild after the Loma Pietra quake of 1989.

    One thinks it is not so indispensable.

    • #10
  11. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Great Post!

    To add another example, the Oakland Bay Bridge, a very key link, an almost indispensable link actually , in the San Francisco Bay road infrastructure which links Oakland to the Silicon Valley area over the San Francisco Bay, only took 23 years to rebuild after the Loma Pietra quake of 1989.

    Ummmm. Loma Prieta. Not that anyone noticed. Or cared.

    • #11
  12. J Ro Member
    J Ro
    @JRo

    Cool graphics!

    The “can’t get things done” aspect reminds me of a retired railway safety inspector I met in Alexandria who used to work in the huge rail yards that were near Reagan International. He told me their job wasn’t really to insure every train was safe before it could continue along the east coast to its destination. Their job was to find something wrong with every train so owner/operators would be obligated to have something repaired there.

    Prediction: No matter how many $trillions Biden spends on infrastructure, that rusty old graffiti rail bridge across the Potomac that can be seen so well by commuters and tourists from the parallel DC Metro bridge will STILL be a rusty old graffiti bridge the next time I look at it.

    • #12
  13. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    One of the jobs I had for at DOE was working in our site’s NEPA group.  That’s right, I started out working for the Department of Energy as a nuclear engineer, then changed over and became an environmental engineer for about 3 or 4 years.  I worked on 3 Environmental Impact Statements, one Environmental Assessment (got an AlGore Hammer Award), and wrote several Categorical Exclusions.

    Troy is right.  NEPA was originally designed to make the government take the environment into account when making a dicision such as involving infrastructure, but it does not require the most environmentally friendly decision be made.  The other environmental laws come into play regardlees.  Nonetheless, NEPA has morphed into a legal tool for NIMBY types to stall projects in hopes the delay will ultimately kill them.  Unfortunately, I’ve seen that to be the case, so NEPA is not likely to have any major reforms imposed any time soon . . .

    • #13
  14. Cosmik Phred Member
    Cosmik Phred
    @CosmikPhred

    Unsk (View Comment):

    Great Post!

    To add another example, the Oakland Bay Bridge, a very key link, an almost indispensable link actually , in the San Francisco Bay road infrastructure which links Oakland to the Silicon Valley area over the San Francisco Bay, only took 23 years to rebuild after the Loma Pietra quake of 1989.

    How does this take 23 years?

    I had a front row seat living in Oakland and riding the bus to SF every day. Let me count the ways…

    – You can pile CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) on top of NEPA.

    – A genital waving contest between the Mayors Brown (Jerry and Willie) over where it would touch down on Yerba Buena Island.

    – Oakland Mayor Jerry insisting on a signature structure instead of a purely Coronado Bridge-like structure. It made the bridge super expensive and led to delays from our supplier in – wait for it -China.  There were…cough, cough… quality issues during the fabrication. More cost and delays.

    – The Governator – Arnold – reversing Jerry’s desired design, pulling the cofferdam for the tower out of the bay…and putting it back in to build Jerry’s desired bridge. Double facepalm.

    – Engineers choosing the wrong steel to secure the tower to its foundation. This led to failures, investigations, re-engineering, and retrofitting.

    – The steel suspension span leaks during the rain because they chose to bolt the railings to it rather than weld them on. Caltrans will be caulking them forever. And the suspension span roadway sections are closed so they need to be de-watered and ventilated to avoid corrosion.

    – Insisting on a costly bike lane to link the bridge to Yerba Buena Island. A bike lane to nowhere. From a path that goes by the EBMUD waste water treatment plant and the Bay Bridge Toll plaza. Who wouldn’t want to pedal through that?

    This is how a $500M “freeway on stilts” becomes a $2B “signature structure” maintenance whore. And let’s face it, as completed, it still doesn’t have close to the beauty of the Golden Gate Bridge or the muscular, utilitarian symmetry of the western span of the Bay Bridge. It looks like it was designed by committee and engineered by out of practice civil engineers.

    It has innovative features, but how on earth can you stick the taxpayers with the bill to fart around with brand new techniques and design?

    See also: the Transbay Disaster…sorry…Transit Center. Innovative, high tech, and shut down shortly after it opened for repairs. It was also terribly inefficient for the commuters. The temporary parking lot-style was compact, efficient and got you to your bus faster.

    Yeah, I’m still bitter.

    • #14
  15. Pony Convertible Member
    Pony Convertible
    @PonyConvertible

    Skyler (View Comment):

    This was essentially what much of the Civil War was about; whether the government should be involved in “infrastructure” projects at all. Funding such projects caused the collapse of the Whig party.

    Henry Clay’s “American System,” for which Lincoln was the new standard bearer, was for protectionist tariffs, taxpayer subsidies for railroads and other corporations, (“internal improvements”), and the nationalization of the money supply to help pay for the subsidies.

    “Subsidized internal improvements were such a universal disaster that when Wisconsin and Minnesota entered the Union in 1848 and 1858, their state constitutions prohibited grants and even loans to private companies. In Iowa the state courts held that local government aid to private companies was unconstitutional. By 1861 state subsidies for internal improvements were forbidden by constitutional amendement in Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland Minnesota, Iowa, Kentucky, Kansas, California, and Oregon. West Virginia, Nevada, and Nebraska entered the Union in the 1860’s with similar prohibitions. By 1875, Massachusetts was the only state that still permitted state subsidies for internal improvements.” Thomas J. Dilorenzo, “The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War.

    The Great Northern Railroad was made without a dime of government help and was built quickly and profitable quickly. The subsidized railroads, unsurprisingly, were better at enriching the builders than in being profitable or quickly available. Elon Musk is making the Great Northern Railroad of his day. Musk’s efforts aren’t without government contracts, but I think it’s safe to say that even without getting government contracts, SpaceX is going to be on the moon and Mars whether the government is involved or not.

     

    Elon Musk benefits from over a $billion of government subsidies every year, through Tesla.

    • #15
  16. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Pony Convertible (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    This was essentially what much of the Civil War was about; whether the government should be involved in “infrastructure” projects at all. Funding such projects caused the collapse of the Whig party.

    Henry Clay’s “American System,” for which Lincoln was the new standard bearer, was for protectionist tariffs, taxpayer subsidies for railroads and other corporations, (“internal improvements”), and the nationalization of the money supply to help pay for the subsidies.

    “Subsidized internal improvements were such a universal disaster that when Wisconsin and Minnesota entered the Union in 1848 and 1858, their state constitutions prohibited grants and even loans to private companies. In Iowa the state courts held that local government aid to private companies was unconstitutional. By 1861 state subsidies for internal improvements were forbidden by constitutional amendement in Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland Minnesota, Iowa, Kentucky, Kansas, California, and Oregon. West Virginia, Nevada, and Nebraska entered the Union in the 1860’s with similar prohibitions. By 1875, Massachusetts was the only state that still permitted state subsidies for internal improvements.” Thomas J. Dilorenzo, “The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War.

    The Great Northern Railroad was made without a dime of government help and was built quickly and profitable quickly. The subsidized railroads, unsurprisingly, were better at enriching the builders than in being profitable or quickly available. Elon Musk is making the Great Northern Railroad of his day. Musk’s efforts aren’t without government contracts, but I think it’s safe to say that even without getting government contracts, SpaceX is going to be on the moon and Mars whether the government is involved or not.

     

    Elon Musk benefits from over a $billion of government subsidies every year, through Tesla.

    Good.  Let’s hope that destroys the innovation in battery operated cars.  If anyone gets that stupid fund, I’m glad he does.

    • #16
  17. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Elon Musk benefits from over a $billion of government subsidies every year, through Tesla.

    Good.  Let’s hope that destroys the innovation in battery operated cars.  If anyone gets that stupid fund, I’m glad he does.

    I’d say that a Billion is probably low. He gets far more than that in direct sales subsidies.

    As far as SpaceX is concerned, he’s the bargain operator, having taken less in development funding for Crew Dragon, but unlike Boeing actually has an operation vehicle to show for the funding.

    • #17
  18. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Elon Musk benefits from over a $billion of government subsidies every year, through Tesla.

    Good. Let’s hope that destroys the innovation in battery operated cars. If anyone gets that stupid fund, I’m glad he does.

    I’d say that a Billion is probably low. He gets far more than that in direct sales subsidies.

    As far as SpaceX is concerned, he’s the bargain operator, having taken less in development funding for Crew Dragon, but unlike Boeing actually has an operation vehicle to show for the funding.

    That’s not a subsidy, it’s a flat out contract.  There’s nothing at all wrong with that.  The government is required to pay for things it wants, too.

    • #18
  19. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Skyler (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Elon Musk benefits from over a $billion of government subsidies every year, through Tesla.

    Good. Let’s hope that destroys the innovation in battery operated cars. If anyone gets that stupid fund, I’m glad he does.

    I’d say that a Billion is probably low. He gets far more than that in direct sales subsidies.

    As far as SpaceX is concerned, he’s the bargain operator, having taken less in development funding for Crew Dragon, but unlike Boeing actually has an operation vehicle to show for the funding.

    That’s not a subsidy, it’s a flat out contract. There’s nothing at all wrong with that. The government is required to pay for things it wants, too.

    No problems with NASA supporting SpaceX and Boeing to develop a spacecraft to maintain access to the ISS. SpaceX was 40% cheaper, faster and at this point successful. Boeing’s craft will not be ready for service until 2023 – at the earliest – and cost Billions more.

    The subsidy I dont like is the subsidy that pays thousands for the wealthy enthusiasts to by Tesla cars.

    • #19
  20. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    The subsidy I dont like is the subsidy that pays thousands for the wealthy enthusiasts to by Tesla cars.

    Tesla didn’t create that subsidy, so there’s no reason they should be embarrassed to take advantage of it.

    • #20
  21. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Skyler (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    The subsidy I dont like is the subsidy that pays thousands for the wealthy enthusiasts to by Tesla cars.

    Tesla didn’t create that subsidy, so there’s no reason they should be embarrassed to take advantage of it.

    No, but you want to bet that they had plenty of donations and lobbyist hours spent on those who did create it. Its crony capitalism. Just because he’s a goofy guy, dont think Musk isnt connected.

    • #21
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    The subsidy I dont like is the subsidy that pays thousands for the wealthy enthusiasts to by Tesla cars.

    Tesla didn’t create that subsidy, so there’s no reason they should be embarrassed to take advantage of it.

    No, but you want to bet that they had plenty of donations and lobbyist hours spent on those who did create it. Its crony capitalism. Just because he’s a goofy guy, dont think Musk isnt connected.

    I’m pretty sure those subsidies pre-date Elon coming into the United States.

    • #22
  23. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Skyler (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    The subsidy I dont like is the subsidy that pays thousands for the wealthy enthusiasts to by Tesla cars.

    Tesla didn’t create that subsidy, so there’s no reason they should be embarrassed to take advantage of it.

    No, but you want to bet that they had plenty of donations and lobbyist hours spent on those who did create it. Its crony capitalism. Just because he’s a goofy guy, dont think Musk isnt connected.

    I’m pretty sure those subsidies pre-date Elon coming into the United States.

    Tesla was founded in 2003. Subsidies began in 2009 in the Aces Act… For cars produced in 2010 or later. 

    In 2011, President Obama pledged to have 1 million electric cars on the road by 2015.

    • #23
  24. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Tesla was founded in 2003. Subsidies began in 2009 in the Aces Act… For cars produced in 2010 or later. 

    In 2011, President Obama pledged to have 1 million electric cars on the road by 2015.

    Perhaps you’re right, but I suspect there was an earlier version of subsidies for electric cars long before 2009.

    • #24
  25. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Skyler (View Comment):

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    Tesla was founded in 2003. Subsidies began in 2009 in the Aces Act… For cars produced in 2010 or later.

    In 2011, President Obama pledged to have 1 million electric cars on the road by 2015.

    Perhaps you’re right, but I suspect there was an earlier version of subsidies for electric cars long before 2009.

    Maybe California or some states had some setup earlier.

    • #25