The Eus Yram

 

Have you ever heard of the Mary Sue? It is a trope in fiction, especially in fan-fiction, where some character is hyper-competent. As you can find at the linked Wikipedia page, the term was coined in 1973 in a Star Trek fanzine. Some say Rey from The Force Awakens is a Mary Sue. Some say Superman is the equivalent for men, a Marty Stu. Some say that Captain James T. Kirk was also one. Another that has been said to be a Mary Sue is Brie Larson’s Captain Marvel character. That’s all well and good. It’s a great name for the hyper-competent character who easily overcomes all obstacles.

But I have been noticing characters on the other end of the scale. They are hyper-incompetent. Nothing goes right for them. They are usually male. I remember reading a book a few years ago where, by the time the so-called protagonist found out his wife was sleeping with her hippy spiritual guru, I was rooting for the guru. The main character was just that unlikable. That book ended with a possible note of promise, although I’m not even so sure of that. The protagonist was committed to a hospital to dry out from alcohol, or some such, where he met a woman. Instead of taking the promise of better days seriously, I was thinking, “She’s a crazy person. Think of where you’re meeting her excrement-head. This will go no better than your last relationship.”

My wife just watched a short film. I asked her about it when she finished watching. “How was it?”

“It was good, but it was really depressing. It is critically-acclaimed,” she explained.

“Doesn’t ‘critically-acclaimed’ mean depressing as all get out?” I asked.

“I suppose it does,” she agreed.

“Well, what made it depressing?” I asked.

She went on to describe the character and his life in the film where everything went wrong for him. Again, he was one of these hyper-incompetent characters who are hard to like.

What is going on with these characters? Is this something that has been around and I have missed it? Or is it something relatively new? I know about characters like Charlie Brown and Sad Sack in the funny papers. Or good old Sureshot Crackshot, or whatever his name was from the old US Army training films. Charlie Brown is a “lovable loser.” He’s a kid. Kids are not expected to be hyper-competent. They’re expected to learn. And he is lovable. He’s a nice, sane kid surrounded by less nice or sane kids and animals. Sad Sack and Sureshot Crackshot are both very humorous characters. They’re likable and lazy or a likable idiot made to demonstrate what not to do in the army. Beetle Bailey is another of these types. But these characters I am now encountering are not lovable or likable. They’re incompetent losers who should be losing. They’re perfect examples of why I should be allowed to play shoulder golf. (Preferably with the authors of these characters.) Again, have they always been there, and I just missed it? Were there characters like this in Greek tragedies? I don’t like a lot of G.B.Shaw’s characters, but at least they aren’t hyper-incompetents. They are closer to Mary Sues/Marty Stus, which is a good reason not to like them. But have these anti-Mary Sues existed before the last decade or so? They are not anti-heroes, more like anti-protagonists who definitely don’t have the power to even be an antagonist. They are nothings.

And thinking this really is a new thing, I think this phenomenon needs a name of its own. Since it is the opposite of a Mary Sue, I propose calling them Eus Yrams.

What do you think Ricochet? Have you encountered this sort of character, these anti-protagonists, these Eus Yrams? Where have you encountered them? Have they been around for a while? Do they only appear at a civilization’s death? Are you seeing this trend, too?

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Captain Kirk isn’t a Mary Sue – or Marty Stu or whatever – because, in addition to having failures along the way to usual success (because it’s a TV show, after all) and that other characters are involved rather than Kirk doing it all himself (for example, “The Galileo Seven,” where Kirk’s “success” consists mostly of waiting long enough for Spock and the others to get themselves off the planet) he had over a decade of experience before assuming the role we saw on TV.  Including incidents such as his favorite commander – Captain Garrovick – being killed along with much of the crew of his first starship assignment, for which he blamed himself because of not firing the ship’s weapons quickly enough.  (TOS, “Obsession.”)

    As far as we saw, Rey was just bumbling around some kind of trash or junkyard planet, until suddenly she could use the Force like an old hand.

    Also, Kirk in the “reboot” movies is a different story.  That Kirk is given command of the Enterprise for no good reason – I’ve mentioned elsewhere/at other times, it seems to be a kind of wish-fulfillment for young people who think they would be a great starship captain because they’re really good at video games and skateboarding – and without the decade-plus of experiences that the original had.

    • #31
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery (View Comment):

    Lovable loser? I think Li’l Abner had a character like that.

    Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver is more a Eue Yram type.

     

    But then, almost but not quite through no fault of his own, he becomes a hero.

    There’s another one almost like that, except far funnier. Brigadier-general Sir Harry Paget Flashman, VC, KCB, KCIE; Chevalier, Légion d’Honneur; US Medal of Honor; San Serafino Order of Purity and Truth, 4th Class. He shirks, he skulks, he skedaddles, and yet all his schemes to keep himself out of danger backfire spectacularly and he ends up being a hero. But for all that, you don’t dislike him. He’s a scoundrel, but he’s an incompetent scoundrel.

    What if you were trying to be a villain, and failing?

    • #32
  3. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Percival (View Comment):
    What if you were trying to be a villain, and failing?

    You might make a great character.

    • #33
  4. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Want to start a riot at a science fiction convention? Commandeer the public address system and announce “Paul Atreides was a Mary Sue.”

    • #34
  5. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Percival (View Comment):

    Want to start a riot at a science fiction convention? Commandeer the public address system and announce “Paul Atreides was a Mary Sue.”

    Dunno about that, but I know how to start something at a comic book store:

     

    • #35
  6. The Girlie Show Member
    The Girlie Show
    @CatIII

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    A few characters in cinema come to mind along the lines of what you describe: Jim Carrey’s from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Adam Sandler’s in Punch Drunk Love, Vincent Gallo’s from Buffalo ’66 and The Brown Bunny, many of Wes Anderson’s; Ben Stiller probably takes the commercial cake, compared to these “indie” movies. 

    The OP contained no named examples of this phenomenon so I was glad to see an example in the comments (unfortunately this appears to be the only example so far that approximates what ‘hant is talking about or what I think he’s talking about). If Buffalo ’66 is a typical example, then give me more; inject the Eus Yrams straight into my veins. Such a banger of a movie. Hell it’s worth it for a particular special effects shot near the end of the movie (how often can you say that about an indie drama?). Too bad it heralded waves of Sundance dreck that, as they say, knew the notes but not the music.

    Also of note: Vincent Gallo is not merely a weirdo filmmaker and avant garde musician who once played in a band with Jean Michel Basquiat, he’s a Trump Republican.

    If this is to actually take off as a named trope (which it may well be already), ditch Eus Yrams. You want something people can remember and not an eldritch oath unspeakable by human tongues.

    • #36
  7. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    The Girlie Show (View Comment):

    Samuel Block (View Comment):
    A few characters in cinema come to mind along the lines of what you describe: Jim Carrey’s from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Adam Sandler’s in Punch Drunk Love, Vincent Gallo’s from Buffalo ’66 and The Brown Bunny, many of Wes Anderson’s; Ben Stiller probably takes the commercial cake, compared to these “indie” movies.

    The OP contained no named examples of this phenomenon so I was glad to see an example in the comments (unfortunately this appears to be the only example so far that approximates what ‘hant is talking about or what I think he’s talking about). If Buffalo ’66 is a typical example, then give me more; inject the Eus Yrams straight into my veins. Such a banger of a movie. Hell it’s worth it for a particular special effects shot near the end of the movie (how often can you say that about an indie drama?). Too bad it heralded waves of Sundance dreck that, as they say, knew the notes but not the music.

    Also of note: Vincent Gallo is not merely a weirdo filmmaker and avant garde musician who once played in a band with Jean Michel Basquiat, he’s a Trump Republican.

    If this is to actually take off as a named trope (which it may well be already), ditch Eus Yrams. You want something people can remember and not an eldritch oath unspeakable by human tongues.

    I especially liked the eldritch oath part.

    • #37
  8. Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw Member
    Matt Balzer, Imperialist Claw
    @MattBalzer

    Percival (View Comment):
    What if you were trying to be a villain, and failing?

    As in trying to commit villainy but ending up a hero? Closest I can think of is Megamind.

    • #38
  9. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Great post, enjoyed the comments.  So, thank you.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, Ima go watch a John Wick movie.

    • #39
  10. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):
    Now if you’ll excuse me, Ima go watch a John Wick movie.

    Enjoy.

    • #40
  11. JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery Coolidge
    JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery
    @JosePluma

    Percival (View Comment):

    JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery (View Comment):

    Lovable loser? I think Li’l Abner had a character like that.

    Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver is more a Eue Yram type.

     

    But then, almost but not quite through no fault of his own, he becomes a hero.

    There’s another one almost like that, except far funnier. Brigadier-general Sir Harry Paget Flashman, VC, KCB, KCIE; Chevalier, Légion d’Honneur; US Medal of Honor; San Serafino Order of Purity and Truth, 4th Class. He shirks, he skulks, he skedaddles, and yet all his schemes to keep himself out of danger backfire spectacularly and he ends up being a hero. But for all that, you don’t dislike him. He’s a scoundrel, but he’s an incompetent scoundrel.

    What if you were trying to be a villain, and failing?

    You’ve got to admit he’s pretty competent at a bunch of things.  He’s a superb horseman, has a knack for picking up languages, and is incredibly adept at disguises.  An a fair cricket player, as well.

    • #41
  12. Midwest Southerner Coolidge
    Midwest Southerner
    @MidwestSoutherner

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    • #42
  13. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery (View Comment):

    Lovable loser? I think Li’l Abner had a character like that.

    Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver is more a Eue Yram type.

     

    But then, almost but not quite through no fault of his own, he becomes a hero.

    There’s another one almost like that, except far funnier. Brigadier-general Sir Harry Paget Flashman, VC, KCB, KCIE; Chevalier, Légion d’Honneur; US Medal of Honor; San Serafino Order of Purity and Truth, 4th Class. He shirks, he skulks, he skedaddles, and yet all his schemes to keep himself out of danger backfire spectacularly and he ends up being a hero. But for all that, you don’t dislike him. He’s a scoundrel, but he’s an incompetent scoundrel.

    What if you were trying to be a villain, and failing?

    You’ve got to admit he’s pretty competent at a bunch of things. He’s a superb horseman, has a knack for picking up languages, and is incredibly adept at disguises. An a fair cricket player, as well.

    The others are explained at least in part, but you have to suspend disbelief a bit about his being an awesome cricket bowler.

    • #43
  14. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    My late wife was the only girl in my high school wargaming club. When she joined some of the others were outraged. I, on the other hand, saw opportunity. And took it.

    • #44
  15. Midwest Southerner Coolidge
    Midwest Southerner
    @MidwestSoutherner

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    My late wife was the only girl in my high school wargaming club. When she joined some of the others were outraged. I, on the other hand, saw opportunity. And took it.

    I was the only girl I knew who played Dungeons & Dragons. Still play it occasionally, although I know more women who play it now.

    • #45
  16. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    My late wife was the only girl in my high school wargaming club. When she joined some of the others were outraged. I, on the other hand, saw opportunity. And took it.

    I was the only girl I knew who played Dungeons & Dragons. Still play it occasionally, although I know more women who play it now.

    This was before D&D. That came along my senior year in high school.

    • #46
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    Then at least the start of this, is for you.  :-)

     

    • #47
  18. Midwest Southerner Coolidge
    Midwest Southerner
    @MidwestSoutherner

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    Then at least the start of this, is for you. :-)

     

    Well played, @kedavis!

    That’s such a great show. :) 

    • #48
  19. The Girlie Show Member
    The Girlie Show
    @CatIII

    Percival (View Comment):
    The others are explained at least in part, but you have to suspend disbelief a bit about his being an awesome cricket bowler.

    Being a cricket bowler would preclude him from being awesome.

    • #49
  20. Bluenoser Inactive
    Bluenoser
    @Bluenoser

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    I proposed to my wife on the outside rail of a mall food court. Naturally, there’s a bit more to the story that makes me look less bad; but that gets left off of most tellings, so, it’s basically the story. As the kids today say, it fits the narrative.

    • #50
  21. The Girlie Show Member
    The Girlie Show
    @CatIII

    Boss Mongo (View Comment):
    Now if you’ll excuse me, Ima go watch a John Wick movie.

    John Wick is my go-to example of both a Mary Sue and why how such a character can work. Keanu Reeves’ charisma and spectacular fight choreography are more than enough to compensate for a character that’s not brilliantly written. I think the first film is the weakest of the series, and that’s partly because of the characters constantly talking about what a badass John Wick is. It comes off like fan fiction or amateur writing from some teenager who wants to create the coolest character ever. Context is everything, though. The movies are explicitly about a cool guy who pulls off impossible stunts, so he has a clear motive and there’s no need to give him depth beyond that. They just lay it on a bit thick in the first movie.

    • #51
  22. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    My wife just told me we were getting married.  I guess she was right.  It’s been 42 years…

    • #52
  23. JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery Coolidge
    JosePluma, Local Man of Mystery
    @JosePluma

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    My wife just told me we were getting married. I guess she was right. It’s been 42 years…

    That’s more or less the way it worked out for me.

    • #53
  24. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    My late wife was the only girl in my high school wargaming club. When she joined some of the others were outraged. I, on the other hand, saw opportunity. And took it.

    I was the only girl I knew who played Dungeons & Dragons. Still play it occasionally, although I know more women who play it now.

    This was before D&D. That came along my senior year in high school.

    Yeah, D&D ruined war gaming.  Serious history undermined by games where people pretend to have arbitrary and ever changing magic.  

    • #54
  25. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Midwest Southerner (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I know how to start something at a comic book store

    I did that once. Not a good idea. :)

    However, my husband did propose to me in our favorite comic book store. On new comic book Tuesday. I know, I know. Nerd alert.

    My late wife was the only girl in my high school wargaming club. When she joined some of the others were outraged. I, on the other hand, saw opportunity. And took it.

    I was the only girl I knew who played Dungeons & Dragons. Still play it occasionally, although I know more women who play it now.

    This was before D&D. That came along my senior year in high school.

    Yeah, D&D ruined war gaming. Serious history undermined by games where people pretend to have arbitrary and ever changing magic.

    Or maybe serious war gaming was just too tedious?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DofvAiOc1oI

    • #55
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    And there’s other fantasy wargaming:

     

    • #56
  27. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Or maybe serious war gaming was just too tedious?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DofvAiOc1oI

    Ha!  It definitely could be.  I spent most of my time trying to find a big enough place to play “Jutland.”  It was a naval game with no board, your just moved pieces around with a ruler and turning radius.  

    • #57
  28. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    Skyler (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Or maybe serious war gaming was just too tedious?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DofvAiOc1oI

    Ha! It definitely could be. I spent most of my time trying to find a big enough place to play “Jutland.” It was a naval game with no board, your just moved pieces around with a ruler and turning radius.

    I saw a couple old men playing a game like that the one year I went to GenCon. They just had a big piece of blue felt they unrolled in the conference center corridor. Looked like a lot of fun.

    • #58
  29. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Or maybe serious war gaming was just too tedious?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DofvAiOc1oI

    Ha! It definitely could be. I spent most of my time trying to find a big enough place to play “Jutland.” It was a naval game with no board, your just moved pieces around with a ruler and turning radius.

    I saw a couple old men playing a game like that the one year I went to GenCon. they just had a big piece of blue felt they unrolled in the conference center corridor. Looked like a lot of fun.

    I wouldn’t know.  I liked a lot of games for tanks, squads, aircraft, etc.  Foxbat vs. Phantom was really good, I recall.  Jutland was my white whale, I could never find a place and the time to play it the way it really needed to be played.  It was all to scale so to have two fleets involved would take up a six court basketball arena, or larger.  And the logistics of moving the ships around was just too ponderous.  Computers make the same kind of games so much more practical.  In the end, we never did play it, but I certainly studied it a lot!  

    • #59
  30. HankRhody Freelance Philosopher Contributor
    HankRhody Freelance Philosopher
    @HankRhody

    Skyler (View Comment):
     It was all to scale so to have two fleets involved would take up a six court basketball arena, or larger.

    Yeah, they certainly didn’t have that much space laid out. I think there were half a dozen ships involved.

     Computers make the same kind of games so much more practical.

    That’s certainly true.

    • #60
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