Does This Mean we Get More Huge Gas Guzzlers?

 

Help me out: if carmakers are judged by the average mileage, and there are a lot of new hybrid vehicles which readily raise the mileage of the fleet up, does that mean that carmakers will be able to use the offsets to produce traditional huge fun vehicles that people like me want to drive?

In other words, will an unintended consequence of all these green policies be that V8s and v12-engined cars will become more available, rather than less?

I’m not asking for a friend. I’m asking for me. After all, I care about the planet. The more CO2 I produce, the more plants grow, the more life there is on earth – it is a win-win!

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  1. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    iWe: In other words, will an unintended consequence of all these green policies be that V8s and v12-engined cars will become more available, rather than less?

     I’ve always assumed it’s an intended consequence. 

    • #1
  2. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    I sure hope so…for years now it has been my goal to maximize my carbon footprint. Looking for new frontiers. 

    • #2
  3. JustmeinAZ Member
    JustmeinAZ
    @JustmeinAZ

    philo (View Comment):

    I sure hope so…for years now it has been my goal to maximize my carbon footprint. Looking for new frontiers.

    Me too. I just can’t afford to maximize mine as much as I would like.

    • #3
  4. Clavius Thatcher
    Clavius
    @Clavius

    iWe: After all, I care about the planet. The more CO2 I produce, the more plants grow, the more life there is on earth – it is a win-win!

    Hey-ho go CO2!

    • #4
  5. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    iWe: The more CO2 I produce, the more plants grow, the more life there is on earth – it is a win-win!

    Why, you science denier!

    • #5
  6. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    iWe: The more CO2 I produce, the more plants grow, the more life there is on earth – it is a win-win!

    Why, you science denier!

     Get rid of humans in favor of organisms with a shorter generation time, and there will be a lot more life on earth. I’m against it. 

    • #6
  7. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    When the overall fleet mileage is required by law to increase, selling more high-efficiency vehicles is just a way to meet the mandate, it doesn’t really allow for producing more low-efficiency vehicles.  That would only be the case if the overall fleet mileage did not have to increase/improve.

    • #7
  8. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Not so fast, fun lovers.  What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

     

    • #8
  9. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    • #9
  10. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    kedavis (View Comment):

    When the overall fleet mileage is required by law to increase, selling more high-efficiency vehicles is just a way to meet the mandate, it doesn’t really allow for producing more low-efficiency vehicles. That would only be the case if the overall fleet mileage did not have to increase/improve.

    Yeah, my understanding is that since “high efficiency” vehicles don’t sell well on their own, car makers make little to no money on them, so they sell only as many as needed to keep the average fuel economy at the mandated level while meeting demand for the easier to sell (and thus more profitable) “low efficiency” vehicles. 

    • #10
  11. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    I endorse your “real” qualification.  It’s also uglier and doesn’t make enough noise.  

    • #11
  12. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    I endorse your “real” qualification. It’s also uglier and doesn’t make enough noise.

    My guess is the marketing department will finally realize they need to make a noisemaker of some kind to sell the electric muscle cars. But then expect the next round of environmental regulations to be about noise.

    • #12
  13. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    But you get that feeling of self-righteousness, so it’s worth the extra cost.

    • #13
  14. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    But you get that feeling of self-righteousness, so it’s worth the extra cost.

     

    Time for this again:

     

    • #14
  15. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    I endorse your “real” qualification. It’s also uglier and doesn’t make enough noise.

    Noise and vibration can be simulated digitally, if that’s what you want. My Lionel train locomotive used to take smoke pellets to give the impression of a steam engine. I’m sure the technology is within reach to make a convincing simulation of the real Mustang. (Don’t ask me what was in those smoke pellets. :-) )

    • #15
  16. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    JoelB (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    I endorse your “real” qualification. It’s also uglier and doesn’t make enough noise.

    Noise and vibration can be simulated digitally, if that’s what you want. My Lionel train locomotive used to take smoke pellets to give the impression of a steam engine. I’m sure the technology is within reach to make a convincing simulation of the real Mustang. (Don’t ask me what was in those smoke pellets. :-) )

    Quiet cars are especially dangerous around people on sidewalks etc.  I’ve read that there are noise-makers for electric cars and hybrids to, for example, warn deer and other animals of approaching danger.

    • #16
  17. E. Kent Golding Member
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Dodge, Chrysler, Ford & Chevy all sell affordable V-8 RWD cars,  as well as V-8 Trucks & SUVs.   I would suggest buying your new V-8s NOW while they are still available.

    • #17
  18. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Check out the new Cadillac “Blackwing” models. I think the top-of-the-line is the CT5. V-8, Tremec six-speed manual transmission, 650 hp, 650 lb.ft. torque, top speed over 200mph.

    The smaller one has “only” 450 hp, and a twin-turbo V-6.

    I think they believe the answer to your question is “YES!”

    EDIT: I underestimated the power figures. Should be 668, and 472.

    • #18
  19. Phil Turmel Coolidge
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Hmm.  A v-12 in my next Suburban would be awesome!

    • #19
  20. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Hmm. A v-12 in my next Suburban would be awesome!

    Would that be the new Suburban from Jaguar?

    • #20
  21. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Quiet cars are especially dangerous around people on sidewalks etc.  I’ve read that there are noise-makers for electric cars and hybrids to, for example, warn deer and other animals of approaching danger.

    Other animals such as bicyclers. 

    • #21
  22. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    kedavis (View Comment):
    Quiet cars are especially dangerous around people on sidewalks etc.  I’ve read that there are noise-makers for electric cars and hybrids to, for example, warn deer and other animals of approaching danger.

    Electrics are quiet below about 5 mph.  After that tire noise comes up.  Many combustion engineers are whisper quiet these days. 

    • #22
  23. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    iWe: Help me out: if carmakers are judged by the average mileage, and there are a lot of new hybrid vehicles which readily raise the mileage of the fleet up, does that mean that carmakers will be able to use the offsets to produce traditional huge fun vehicles that people like me want to drive?

    There are slew of regulations besides fuel economy.  Tesla does very well by these credits.   V8s have a few decades left, but the clock is running.  I think I am driving my V8 these days. 

    • #23
  24. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Oh man…

    iWe: In other words, will an unintended consequence of all these green policies be that V8s and v12-engined cars will become more available, rather than less?

    I can only hope so.  I’d love to drive a V8 again.  I like my Honda Accord, mind you, but I loved my Mercedes 400E. As one friend said of it: “You tell it to go, and it says, ‘Yes, Sir’.”

    It was a smokin’ car.

    • #24
  25. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Doctor Robert (View Comment):

    Oh man…

    iWe: In other words, will an unintended consequence of all these green policies be that V8s and v12-engined cars will become more available, rather than less?

    I can only hope so. I’d love to drive a V8 again. I like my Honda Accord, mind you, but I loved my Mercedes 400E. As one friend said of it: “You tell it to go, and it says, ‘Yes, Sir’.”

    It was a smokin’ car.

    These days, the Mercedes-es probably vape.

    • #25
  26. mildlyo Member
    mildlyo
    @mildlyo

    From your lips to God’s ears, iWe

    • #26
  27. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    JoelB (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    I endorse your “real” qualification. It’s also uglier and doesn’t make enough noise.

    Noise and vibration can be simulated digitally, if that’s what you want. My Lionel train locomotive used to take smoke pellets to give the impression of a steam engine. I’m sure the technology is within reach to make a convincing simulation of the real Mustang. (Don’t ask me what was in those smoke pellets. :-) )

     

    • #27
  28. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    My GT350 has a switch to open up a valve to make the exhaust louder.  This is a video of a guy lapping the ring, just to give you an idea of the sound of freedom. The valve opens by itself under certain conditions.

    • #28
  29. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    kedavis (View Comment):

    JoelB (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Not so fast, fun lovers. What makes you think the mileage standard won’t go up as more electrics come into play?

    Besides, don’t you want to spend 60K on the electric “GTO” hatchback Mustang, with your purchase partially subsidized by our tax dollars?

    It still costs more than a real Mustang.

    I endorse your “real” qualification. It’s also uglier and doesn’t make enough noise.

    Noise and vibration can be simulated digitally, if that’s what you want. My Lionel train locomotive used to take smoke pellets to give the impression of a steam engine. I’m sure the technology is within reach to make a convincing simulation of the real Mustang. (Don’t ask me what was in those smoke pellets. :-) )

    Quiet cars are especially dangerous around people on sidewalks etc. I’ve read that there are noise-makers for electric cars and hybrids to, for example, warn deer and other animals of approaching danger.

    My daughter’s hybrid Honda Accord plays a little jingle when it starts off like a battery golf cart. Once the car is moving along, the motor kicks in. She is on her second hybrid after driving a Hundai Sonata for several years. I will replace my CRV with another CRV, but will go hybrid this time. It is the best of both worlds. EVs are for commuters. My problem is how few hybrids are on the lot. I want the Touring trim because the navigation is built in. I like Apple Car Play in cars but don’t want to have to plug in my IPhone to see maps. Navigation is already included in the Touring models, as well as the auto hatchback thing where you kick your foot under the bumper and it opens. I laughed at the silliness of that until I needed it. We only plug in his phone and use Apple Maps when we are on a trip. Since the cheaper trims are more popular, I will have to bide my time until Touring models are plentiful in the hybrid version. I suspect the computer chip shortage has modified production to concentrate on the cheaper trims. Even so, only one hybrid in a cheaper trim was on the lot the other day. All seem to be ~$1200 more than several months ago, probably due to scarcity of “rare earth” elements needed for those batteries.

    • #29
  30. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Despite my love for big normally aspirated engines (my truck has a V10), their days are probably numbered for most vehicles.  Ford’s flagship truck engine is now a turbocharged V6, even in the Raptor.  Even small turbocharged inline fours make very good horsepower now.  While there will still be V8’s in some performance cars and trucks over half ton size, it will be harder and harder to find them in passenger cars.

    • #30